Larry Brown #43 Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 On the local sports report on channel 4, George Michael rolled a clip of Daryl Gardener from the locker room giving typical cliches about how the defense has to go out and perform better, but then all of a sudden he seemed to get really serious, and his voiced raised as he said, "I tell you one thing, we're all gonna have degrees after we learn Marvin Lewis' defense." And I'm telling you, he sounded agitated when he said it. This really struck me, although George Michael didn't seem to pay the comment any attention. Granted, my mother has contributed about as much on the field for the Skins thus far as Gardener has, so you can question how much stock to put into his comments. But Darrell Green made similar, albeit less pointed, comments on the radio after the Monday Night Debacle, when he said it is the most complex defense he's ever played in. Chew on this and give me your thoughts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathByLinebacker Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 Shouldn't Daryl already have a degree from Baylor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Brown #43 Posted September 19, 2002 Author Share Posted September 19, 2002 Originally posted by DeathByLinebacker Shouldn't Daryl already have a degree from Baylor? C'mon, how many of these guys actually graduate from their colleges? I know I'm making a generalization...but playing ball at Baylor and GRADUATING from Baylor are not the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rat_Boy Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news/ap/20020918/ap-redskins-defense.html The players say he has a complicated scheme, and they are still trying to learn it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaudry Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 At Baylor they just hand you a fruit roll-up and tell you it's a degree. Nobody has noticed in forty years. I think its definately a sign of a complex defense that will take a few weeks to be in full swing. By that thinking, it would partly explain why we were so horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlanta Skins Fan Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 The source is unfortunate (Gardener), but probably only Gardener feels free to speak his mind. He's a vet who has proven himself, and probably is the least rooted to this team among proven veterans. I'd take Gardener seriously on this point. A lot of people thought he was a bit of a jerk, but no one questioned that he played a dominant game when healthy. (Too bad we may never see that guy in a Redskin uniform.) I think his perspective bears some consideration -- defensive guys are typically high-emotion, instinctive players. The offense thinks; the defense reacts. Too much thinking by the defense will create the kind of blowout we witnessed Monday night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeSkin Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 This is a problem with various teams every year. I'm curious to see what the Baltimore defense gave up in Marvin's first 5 or so games there. I always hear about new defensive coordinators coming in and simplifying the playbook to use their player's natural skills, not making it more complex. When I, a blind homer, doesn't buy into Marvin's scheme, you can bet that the players aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Brown #43 Posted September 19, 2002 Author Share Posted September 19, 2002 Well it's a concern that they look so friggin' lost in week 2 of the regular season. If it were the second preseason game -- ok, I'd let it slide -- but somebody needs to alert them that these games actually COUNT. They don't look like they're on the "brink" of figuring the defense out either -- they look like they're still reading the Table of Contents. Oh, in case PhillyPhattyMatt or Phantic are reading this, the Table of Contents is the section at the beginning of a book where they tell you the names of all the chapters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 LaVar Arrington is in his third defense in three years. That is one key reason why this year has not produced the kind of breakout we were expecting. At some point the merry go round has to stop. LT played in the same defense while he was learning the ropes in the NFL. So did Mike Singletary. You want a high draft choice with a lot of ability to make a contribution and continue to chart upwards? Give him some clear direction and allow him to put Day 2 on top of Day 1 and Day 3 on top of Day 2 in terms of learning experiences.................... This is the cost of hiring and firing staff after staff............... hopefully this is the last transition for awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Brown #43 Posted September 19, 2002 Author Share Posted September 19, 2002 I agree, Bulldog. But I don't recall Lavar having this kind of learning curve in Kurt Schottenheimer's scheme. It sucks that such a talented player who was seemingly on the brink of super-stardom now has to take a step back and learn astro physics before he can tackle somebody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRMADD Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 Hahahhaa! Table of contents! Ok... but seriously. Part of the problem is that the scheme is apparently complicated. That's not the whole story. On the DL, two of four players are new. Two of three LBs are new. Only the secondary has played together -- and the safeties aren't any good. These guys really have to play together for a while before they play well together. My big problem with Lewis' scheme is not the complexity, but the passiveness. Why the heck are three Pro Bowl linebackers playing read-and-react instead of ATTACKING? Why are two top-notch CBs (ok, one has only proven that he's a top notch trash-talker, but he has potential) and the world's best nickel corner playing zone? Why can't Wynn, Wilky, Bruce and <fill in the blank> generate any pass rush at all? I sympathize with these guys. Lots of change every year. New coordinators, new head coaches, new strategies. But they're still athletes -- all those things don't excuse dumb penalties, missed tackles, blown assignments... and so on. They need to stop whining and go make plays. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaffeen Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 Sheesh.......how difficult can it be, we are talking about a football game, not rocket science......I'm sure it's not as easy as doing something by rote, but the former Ravens defense doesn't strike me as being mensa material either. Yes, these guys actually have to do some mental gymnastics, but that's what makes ML's defense ML's defense (and is what made it successful w/ the Ravens). Spurrier's offense isn't a walk in the park for WR and QB's, but that is what makes it *special*. Some of you guys are being way to hard on that man, he's a great coach and you should feel lucky to have him. If the pro bowlers on this team are mental midgets then they need to spend some extra time learning the system instead of complaining about it. They are getting millions of dollars folks.....spare me the pity. If they just can't hack it, Marv will dumb down the "D". It's only been two games and they are tied for a divisional lead, I don't think he should abandon something that will make them better in the latter part of the season. They should be concerned, but they should put in the extra hours to become good at what ML's trying to do too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaffeen Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 Oh.......and BTW......I can't say for sure because I haven't heard his comments for myself and I don't know his history very well, but it sure sounds to me like Gardener is a bad apple. This guy can't even play full-time and he's complaining? Give me a freakin' break, he's just stirring the pot. If I'm right, I say get rid of the man, he's bad news and of very little benefit to the team and what they are trying to accomplish. Miami is probably very glad to be rid of him. It's those types of negative people that can ruin a good thing, it spreads like a disease. Anybody see N'awlins last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Brown #43 Posted September 19, 2002 Author Share Posted September 19, 2002 Originally posted by kaffeen If they just can't hack it, Marv will dumb down the "D". It's only been two games and they are tied for a divisional lead, I don't think he should abandon something that will make them better in the latter part of the season. That's fine, but another performance or two like the other night and the majority of the discussions on Extremeskins will be about next year's draft and our prospects for 2003. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom [Giants fan] Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 I saw on ESPN, they were talking about Lewis' first three years at Baltimore. The Ravens defense were ranked around 28th his first year, 24th the second and 22nd the third. They were ranked in the top ten his fourth year and very high his fifth which I believe was their Super Bowl year. According to this, it takes several seasons for a defense to learn his system. It will be interesting to see how long it takes the Redskins to learn it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Brown #43 Posted September 19, 2002 Author Share Posted September 19, 2002 Thanks for the info Tom, but DAMN that's bad news. Those were just the kind of numbers I was afraid of. By the time our guys figure out this defense they'll have either moved on to other teams or will be past their prime. :gus: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RF4L Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 What ever happened to 11 guys getting emotional and just physically beating the mf'er in front of them. All this business about difficult schemes and not understanding what's what, is total BS to me. I'm sick and tired of the Redskin players coming out flat compared to the other guys and just simply getting ther a$$es kicked. Gimme a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesome Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 Originally posted by Larry Brown #43 I agree, Bulldog. But I don't recall Lavar having this kind of learning curve in Kurt Schottenheimer's scheme. That's b/c KS simplified his scheme after the first few weeks. The D gave up a ton of points and yards in the first four games last year, then buckled down. I challenge you to a find a decent highlight of Lavar before the Carolina INT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaffeen Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 Hey Guys, Marvin Lewis became defensive coordinator of the Ravens in 1999, the same time Billick became coach. He, and his defensive players, won the Superbowl for them the next year. Yes, he was with Browns/Ravens organization before that, but not as defensive coordinator. He was with Pittsburgh Steelers from 92-95 as linebacker's coach. Here is an excerpt from an article I saw on the net'.... Lewis' NFL journey began in 1992. That year he joined Bill Cowher's staff in Pittsburgh as linebackers' coach, and success soon followed. By 1993, Lewis, along with other Cowher defensive disciples Dick LeBeau and Dom Capers, helped turn the Steelers defensive unit into one of the NFL's best. The Steelers' defense was ranked in the top 3 from 1993-5, thanks in large part to Lewis' work with the linebackers. From 1992 to 1995, Lewis turned what was a rag tag group of linebackers into the league's best collective unit. Chad Brown, Greg Lloyd, Kevin Greene, and Levon Kirkland each thrived under his tutelage and from 1994 to 1995 they recorded a league best sack total for linebackers, with 63. Sounds impressive to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaydean Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 Originally posted by DeathByLinebacker Shouldn't Daryl already have a degree from Baylor? THERE IT IS FOLKS, THE FUNNIEST DAMN THINGS I'VE HEARD ALL WEEK LONG!!!!WAY TO GO!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesome Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 Marv better figure out a way to speed up that learning curve, like on the fricken double, or we are in for a repeat of last year. Sloooow start, solid finish, 8-8, maybe 10-6, but 7-9 just as easily. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaffeen Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 I essentially posted this earlier, but I'll reiterate, ML was defensive coordinator for two years prior to winning the Superbowl. While he was the defensive coordinator of the Ravens his defense was ranked in the top ten. He was *not* the defensive coordinator when the Browns defense was ranked low (plus, they *were* the browns too ). Anybody want to win a Superbowl next year? hmmm...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeSkin Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 There's about a 60/40 chance that Lewis won't be here after this year, but it looks like he may be, if the defense keeps performing like it did on Monday. Our defense is going to SUCK this year, let's face it. Unless Marvin dumbs it down to save his own as$ and prevent the ship from sinking, we're screwed defensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom [Giants fan] Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 kaffeen, where did you get your info on Lewis? I was relaying what was said on ESPN. Where did you find this other stuff out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 Well if we as fans take the bait about the players needing to take time to learn the "most complicated" defense ever, then we also have to ACCEPT the fact, that we could have another UGLY start to this season because our defense is constantly messing up trying to learn new things, at the same time, we as fans will be more DEMANDING come about week 7,8....start of next season. I am willing to wait it out this season if it means that next season are DEFENSE will truly be that good.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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