twa Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Which btw - would be entirely the fault of the parents... in other words the previous generation. I would have to agree with you, in fact the majority of teens I come into contact with turned out suprisingly well once they got away from thier parents from MY generation.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 The statement you are refuting is that Germany never attacked us like Japan did. Germany declaring war on us does not constitute an attack like the one Japan conducted. Japan also declared war on us, but that was not the "attack" to which he was referring. Umm, I'm not getting your point. Nelms asked, rhetorically, why we even fought Nazi Germany since they never attacked us, attempting to analogize to Iran in the present day. All I was pointing out is that Nazi Germany did, in fact, formally declare war on us (and started sinking our ships and stuff as soon as they could). Did I miss something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueTalon Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Ack, I hate this canard. Cars are a vital part of our society. They are our primaty means of transportation. Deaths in accidents are an unfortunate side effect, one we strive to reduce with speed limits, safety devices, etc. Guns are designed to kill. We do not design guns with the hope that they will become less effective in killing. To accuse someone of intellectual dishonesty because they do not accept the validity of your gun/car analogy is an unfair debate tactic. I responded to this in the gun thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueTalon Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Umm, I'm not getting your point. Nelms asked, rhetorically, why we even fought Nazi Germany since they never attacked us, attempting to analogize to Iran in the present day. All I was pointing out is that Nazi Germany did, in fact, formally declare war on us (and started sinking our ships and stuff as soon as they could). Did I miss something? I wasn't looking at the greater context of the discussion. I agree that Germany declared war on us and started attacking our shipping, but it seemed to me in your previous post that you were equating the German declaration of war with the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, and I didn't consider that to be a fair comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelms Posted April 21, 2006 Author Share Posted April 21, 2006 Ahh, the myth of the noble past. Do you really think Norman Rockwell paintings refect the reality of those times?Every generation has romanticized the character of the youth of the past and denigrated the character of the youth of the present. In the Forties and Fifties, which you look back at so fondly, the older generation was certain that the youth were nothing but hotrodding punks, zootsuiters and losers. In the 20s, the youth were lazy flappers and bootleggers. Pick your time, it's always the same. By the way, the American draftees of the 40s performed pretty crappily, at least at first. In the first invasions in North Africa, our performance was pathetic. It was only after the troops got some seasoning that they began to perform adequately. I disagree. While things always get romanticized with the passage of time, I still believe that the WWII generation was the greatest generation this nation has seen. The men who fought in WWII and women who helped the war effort were just coming out of a depression, so they knew what it was like to have nothing. The common theme in Tom Brokaw's "Greatest Generation" book was how little many of the WWII veterans had back at home after the war, but how they were able to work hard and built a good life for them and for there families. I believe that we have heroes in our current gerneration of men and women fighting to defend this country. I'm amazed at the stories I"ve read of the sacrifices made by our soldiers in Iraq an Afghanistan. You can argue that it is more difficult now then it was during WWII to serve and defend this country during war time because we have more to lose today (at least in material things). I started this thread not to start arguments across generations or to debate the merits of the war in Iraq. We are where we are and there are some things that are out of our control. I am not an advocate of mandatory "national service", but I am advocating military service during a time of war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueTalon Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Which btw - would be entirely the fault of the parents... in other words the previous generation.Oh, you're not getting any argument from me about that!Yeah, because none of the previous generations encompassed people who were disrespectful? In fact, I assume they were pretty much perfect. There were lazy kids in EVERY generation--it is only accentuated now because technology makes it easier to get things by doing less. I find it incredibly ironic that you are able to group my entire generation together as possessing poor character, whereas the entire two generations before me were the epitomy of perfection. Please. Don't read things into my posts that aren't there. First of all, nothing is universal. You are right, there are lazy kids in every generation, as are undisciplined and disrespectful kids. However, my point was that the ratios have changed, and that there are more lazy, undisciplined, and disrespectful kids now than then, a point you yourself made I might add. As Destino pointed out, if your generation is lazy, it's because my generations did a crappy job of instilling a work ethic. If your generation is disrespectful, it's because my generation didn't demand any respect and didn't demand that you learn any respect. If your generation is undisciplined, it's because my generation didn't discipline you or teach you discipline. I by no means indicted everyone in your generation. Until recently I served with marvelous young people in all branches of the armed forces. The ones that are in are doing a tremendous job. However, with regards to the draft, among those who are serving are some ****birds who are lazy, undisciplined and disrespectful; and that small minority of people take up a vastly disporportionate amount of time of the higher-ups in their units. Re-introducing compulsory service would only increase the ratio of lazy, undisciplined and disrespectful people, and there's no way in hell anyone in active service wants that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuposse87 Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 i'd take 1000 bullets for my family, this government, I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagman Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 Why not instead of a draft strictly for the military, have a mandatory service of some sort right after high school. I am in the military and I think that having people here that didn't volunteer would be a mistake. If someone is interested in teaching- let them teach. If someone wants to build bridges let them build, and if they want to join the military than let them join. I feel that youths (not all of them) but a large amount dont know what direction to go after high school. Thus they go to college only to find that they just defered their confusion for a later day. Many younger people never have done a thing for this country but feel that this country owes them something. I would like to see a two year service oriented draft. Does it seem socialist? sure! I think that this would increase productivity for our nation and allow younger people to get job expierence before going to college. I think that it could be a lot like the CCC in the 30s except bigger. They would be paid obviously but not large amounts. Does anybody think this is a terrible idea? I would like to run for president in 2016 (seeing how Ill be 35), so if anybody knows of any unclaimed oil wells that I could tap- let me know. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 Any forced service is a terrible idea. Especially, since one in forced service adds less value to society than a crackhead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueTalon Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 Any forced service is a terrible idea. Especially, since one in forced service adds less value to society than a crackhead.Voice of experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neerajk4 Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 a year ago I wouldn't have given a crap. but now, hell no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 Voice of experience? No, just self-evident truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinz1972 Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 no,b/c the rich kids will avoid being drafted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airborneskins Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 i'd take 1000 bullets for my family, this government, I don't know. Care to elaborate some? a year ago I wouldn't have given a crap. but now, hell no. What is the difference b/t the 2? Just curious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumodat Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 As a member of the armed forces I would have to say.....ummm....no. On second thought.....hell no. I'd rather be a little short-handed than be weighed down by soldiers who had no motivation to serve. Exactly! The reason our military is so strong and organized, is because it is a VOLUNTARY military. If someone chose to join, they have a willingness to accept orders. When I was in the Air Force, you could tell who the guys were whom were given an ultimatum from a judge, or their parents. They hated being there and they had no intention of "buying in" to the system. The drat should be a LAST RESORT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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