AlexRS Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Nice try. But its not checkmate and I won't let you box me in.I do feel that it is justified, else they would have died in vain. Quoting a Marine "If we leave now, without finishing the job, it will dishonor the name and family of every comrade who has died here so far." On that note, I have to go for the evening. Thank you fellow extremers for a good days discussion. I am not trying to box you in. I'm trying to get you to understand that many people died. That should not be taken lightly. Yes, now we are there. Now we deal with it. Was the decision to attack Iraq a good decision??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRS Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 To keep this country safe and free I would sacrifice 10,000 more lives including my own When would you include your own? Number 1? Number 2? Number 10,000? Clearly it's not one of the first 2000+.... Would you sacrifice 9,999 lives before sacrificing your own?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRS Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 You can talk the patriotic talk because you are still alive. When time for action comes you say "it's cool, you go first" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins Diehard Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 When would you include your own? Number 1? Number 2? Number 10,000? Clearly it's not one of the first 2000+.... Would you sacrifice 9,999 lives before sacrificing your own?? I think the the death toll for me personally was around 500 when I got there and a little over a thousand when I left. So I guess I would at least fall somewhere between those numbers on your scale. I do prefer the "let them die for their cause instead of me dieing for mine" approach that Patton advocated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchwood Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 How exactly did you learn that? I studied medicine specializing in sports related (and sports forums related) injuries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchwood Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 When would you include your own? Number 1? Number 2? Number 10,000? Clearly it's not one of the first 2000+.... Would you sacrifice 9,999 lives before sacrificing your own?? I have spent my time in, have you? I was honorably discharged, because I couldn't cut it due to reagrivation of my knee injury. If I could I would gladly serve over there and die if need be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRS Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 I think the the death toll for me personally was around 500 when I got there and a little over a thousand when I left. So I guess I would at least fall somewhere between those numbers on your scale. I do prefer the "let them die for their cause instead of me dieing for mine" approach that Patton advocated. Thank you for your service! Yet please do not call it "my scale." I was merely trying to show gchwood that saying "I would sacrifice my life" does not equate to actually doing it. Unfortunately it seems many do not comprehend the value of a human life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchwood Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Thank you for your service!Yet please do not call it "my scale." I was merely trying to show gchwood that saying "I would sacrifice my life" does not equate to actually doing it. Unfortunately it seems many do not comprehend the value of a human life. See you have to know the whole story before assuming that I wouldn't truely sacrifice myself for my country. Military doesn't typically keep around those that can't hardly walk without their knee giving way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRS Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 I have spent my time in, have you? I was honorably discharged, because I couldn't cut it due to reagrivation of my knee injury. If I could I would gladly serve over there and die if need be No, I have never served. But I have great respect for those who do. So do you. You cannot bear thinking their deaths were not justified. So you make yourself believe that they were. I cannot bear thinking that either. But neither can I bear lying to them or to myself about it. I choose to acknowledge this great tragedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins Diehard Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Thank you for your service!Yet please do not call it "my scale." I was merely trying to show gchwood that saying "I would sacrifice my life" does not equate to actually doing it. Unfortunately it seems many do not comprehend the value of a human life. I know that you guys(opponents of the war) don't like hearing this, and some how try to say it isn't true, and this is nothing personal against you..but Thanks from people that belittle and margianilize everything we are doing or have done over there rings hollow and quite frankly means very little if anything. Sorry but if you think I put my life on the line and watched friends die and be maimed for nothing more than corporate profits than I would prefer you just keep your thanks to yourself. Am I objective about the whole thing? I try to be, but most certainly am not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchwood Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 No, I have never served.But I have great respect for those who do. So do you. You cannot bear thinking their deaths were not justified. So you make yourself believe that they were. I cannot bear thinking that either. But neither can I bear lying to them or to myself about it. I choose to acknowledge this great tragedy. I do think that their deaths are justified, it is not me lying to myself I beleive in what we are doing in Iraq and in Afghanistan. I beleive that the US is blessed with being the only superpower and that we should stand up for the injustices handed down by the cruel and oppressive. See for me Iraq is not about 9/11 it is about Saddam and removing him and his supporters, it is about liberating a people group where genocide has been practiced for years, knid of like why we went in to Somolia. Do I think that Saddam had contacts with Al quaeda? Sure, but I think that Osama deserve retribution for that. Saddam deserves retribution for other things that are just as bad just not to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRS Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 I do think that their deaths are justified, it is not me lying to myself I beleive in what we are doing in Iraq and in Afghanistan. I beleive that the US is blessed with being the only superpower and that we should stand up for the injustices handed down by the cruel and oppressive.See for me Iraq is not about 9/11 it is about Saddam and removing him and his supporters, it is about liberating a people group where genocide has been practiced for years, knid of like why we went in to Somolia. Do I think that Saddam had contacts with Al quaeda? Sure, but I think that Osama deserve retribution for that. Saddam deserves retribution for other things that are just as bad just not to us. Did you feel this way on Mar. 17, 2003? Did the way you justified the war change since then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchwood Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Did you feel this way on Mar. 17, 2003?Did the way you justified the war change since then? I felt this way in '92 when Saddam decided to invade Kuwait, it didn't change from the time I was 11 to the time I was 21 and it won't change when I am 31,41,51, or 61. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRS Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 I know that you guys(opponents of the war) don't like hearing this, and some how try to say it isn't true, and this is nothing personal against you..butThanks from people that belittle and margianilize everything we are doing or have done over there rings hollow and quite frankly means very little if anything. Sorry but if you think I put my life on the line and watched friends die and be maimed for nothing more than corporate profits than I would prefer you just keep your thanks to yourself. Am I objective about the whole thing? I try to be, but most certainly am not. This war is a horrible tragedy. Our soldiers did not die for nothing. They died for their country. They were not sent there for their country. Yet they still died for it. That is the unbearable part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Yes, tired of Iraq Threads...and people who try to get back into that stuff during threads like this...(Alex) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRS Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 I felt this way in '92 when Saddam decided to invade Kuwait, it didn't change from the time I was 11 to the time I was 21 and it won't change when I am 31,41,51, or 61. Yes, because changing that, for you, is the same as saying that our soldiers died for nothing. Every single one of them died for their country. You do not need to objectively justify it. Even if we should have never attacked Iraq. Every single one of them died for their country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchwood Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 This war is a horrible tragedy.Our soldiers did not die for nothing. They died for their country. They were not sent there for their country. Yet they still died for it. That is the unbearable part. It is only a tragedy if your concept of objectives have not been met. I feel that it has been a sucess and is continuing to get better and better, but my objectives for this war is removal of Saddam, eliminating his supporters, freeing the Iraqi people, setting up a new democratic government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRS Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 It is only a tragedy if your concept of objectives have not been met.I feel that it has been a sucess and is continuing to get better and better, but my objectives for this war is removal of Saddam, eliminating his supporters, freeing the Iraqi people, setting up a new democratic government. Yes, anything that can distract us from thinking about the horrible mistake we have made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchwood Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Yes, anything that can distract us from thinking about the horrible mistake we have made. Which is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 I'd rather people talk about the war then to act like it doesn't exist. The more people talk about, the better. The day this country invades another nation and we as people say absolutly nothing about it is a day I pray to God I never see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRS Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Which is? Attacking Iraq on Mar 19, 2003. 4 months after it allowed UN inspectors in (first time in over 4 years) 18 days after Saddam started destroying missles (per inspector's requests).... Threat of invasion was working. Saddam started to disarm. Then we invaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchwood Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Attacking Iraq on Mar 19, 2003.4 months after it allowed UN inspectors in (first time in over 4 years) 18 days after Saddam started destroying missles.... Which has nothing to do with the objectives that I had and the feeling that he should have been removed from power 14-15 years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRS Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Which has nothing to do with the objectives that I had and the feeling that he should have been removed from power 14-15 years ago So be it. Now we have to live with knowing that even though... Threat of invasion was working. Saddam started to disarm. We invaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 I like stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchwood Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 So be it.Now we have to live with knowing that even though... Threat of invasion was working. Saddam started to disarm. We invaded. ok, So? I guess I am failing to see your point here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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