Joe Gibbs now versus Joe Gibbs then

[DaSkinzBaby]

People I have a question for you. Is it me or do you see a serious difference in Gibbs during this coaching stint. Don't get me wrong I do see that he is turning this team around but I never remember him being so loyal to Rypien, Thiesman or Williams as I see him with Brunell. I tend to think that with the way Gibbs talks about his faith and the rumors of Brunell being almost a fanatic I wonder if that is what makes Gibbs stick with Brunell as he has done, I mean last year he downplayed Brunell's injury and stuck with him FAR TOO LONG then this year he yanked Ramsey out after 1 1/2 quarters. I also seem to think Ramsey is better coming off the bench in games. I mean it's quite obvious that we only have 1 recieving threat at wideout. We have a good option with Cooley but he scares me with his fumbles and Royal at times couldn't catch a cold. I mean is it me or should we be like Parcells and opening up the playbook as Parcells did today? I guess we are limited in doing that since Brunell can't make a throw past 12 yards but I think we need to be playing with mean intentions and I still think Joe and Brunell will be the downfall, I mean if Brunell is as religious as I have heard shouldn't he be doing the right thing and giving us the best chance to win? With Joe everyone knows his tendencies and his play calling recently hasn't been imaginitive and far too costly in being conservative. I mean today him going for it on 4th down was gutsy. The play to Royal too was gutsy, maybe Joe is starting to get it and go for it more, I mean right now what does he have to lose? If anyone has any respectful insight I would like to hear back. I also am very upset at Rock not getting any carries today. As a coach don't you go with the players with the hot hand and after last week I think Rock deserved some carries today. Ladell seemed slow and very tentitive today what do you all think? I also see that Jacobs had a catch today, but as I recall he was only thrown too 1 time today, perhaps the extra practice last week is helping. :2cents:

[Skinsfan1311]

Gibbs has a history of being loyal to his QB's, to a fault.

[33]

The very main difference that I have seen in Joe Gibbs teams now as opposed to "then" is that he doesn't have the Posse.

Seriously, he isn't very different, he just doesn't have as complete a group of WR's to go down the field with. Obviously, he now has Cooley who is a much better receiving H-back than he has ever had before.

[DaSkinzBaby]

I think that Cooley and Clint Didier are equal. Didier was a heck of an H-back.

[Buck812]

The thing thats different is that you are seeing him as a personel man and coach versus just being a coach. Brunnell is his guy and he feels a little more obligated to stay with him. I dont think that it ever showed any more that it did as when he pulled Ramsey this year. If you remember, in his first stint here his only personel move was Desmond Howard. He may still right this ship but he's sure stumbling along the way.

[Thinking Skins]

He doesn't have the team he had then, but he is showing that he knows something about how to put a team together right now.

[Parlett316]

Considering the Skins have ONE NFL caliber wide receiver that is starting could have something to do with Brunell.

[HOF44]

He is very loyal to his players, especially ones that have produced for him in the past. Everyone thought he was staying with Theisman to long the season LT ended his career. He was not playing well and alot of people were questioning Gibbs staying with him.

[prophet]

12-4

1986 jay schroeder 276 541 Pct%51 4109 14.9 tds22 ints22 sacks28 rtg62.2

10-6 1985 joe theismann 167 301 56 1774 10.6 tds8 ints16 sacks37 56.8 in 11 games

9-7 1992 mark rypien 269 479 56 3282 12.2 13 ints17 23 65

7-9 1988 both doug williams 213 380 56.1 2609 12.2 12 int15 10 64.7

mark rypien 114 208 54.8 1730 15.2 18 int13 14 72.2

28 ints that year... can you imagine what this board would be doing over that?

point is brunell had a bad day... but has been pretty solid all year.... a heck of alot better than most the previous joe gibbs years... i'll post the rest latter.

People think we had stellar qb play during the first gibbs stint. We didn't. We had only 2 really good full seasons of qb play. the rest are pretty darn avg.

[O-11]

I am only 30 years old but I remember quite alot about Gibbs first stint. I told a friend of mine the other day "This is not the Joe Gibbs that I used to refer to." The reason I said that was because I believe that there is a difference in him today. Some of the same core values and tendencies are still there but there are some intangible things that are totally askew from his first stint. There are a few things that I believe though:

1- The argument about Gibbs not having the Posse or the players that he needs is only valid to an extent. The genius that was Gibbs the first time around was his ability to take whatever he had and make it great. The entire '81 and '82 teams were rejects. Most of them were Plan B aquisitions that teams released onto waivers because they couldn't cut it where they were. I do realize that no one can just take anybody off the street and make them great, but he had a gift for it; check out the strike seasons or 3 QB's in three Super Bowls.

2- The point about Gibbs being loyal to Brunell because of their same faith beliefs has come up a few times, but honestly, that holds absolutely no water. Ramsey is a Christian also and has publicly stated as such. As a matter of a fact, I have heard more about "faith" coming out of Ramsey's mouth (it was around the time he was benched and frustrated) than I've ever heard from Brunell. Most of the time when Brunell's faith comes up it is from a) fans (like the post from SkinnedUntilRed) or the media which loves to stir things. Gibbs was asked this question of his loyalty to Brunell being faith based and he told the reporter he has never done that and he wouldn't start now (sorry, I don't have any link for it, but I did read it in the Washington Post). So, I'll take his word for it. Besides, as already stated, if it were faith based what do we say about Ramsey's benching? I believe that Gibbs trusts the decision making of a veteran like Brunell more than he does Ramsey, and that and that alone is the only logical reason IMO.

With that said, I do believe there is a difference in him now. He seems more tentative. His play calling doesn't seem nearly as sharp. The Gibbs that I watched the first time would hand the ball to his running back on 3 and 1 everytime. He did it Riggins or no Riggins, it didn't matter. If he didn't, you needed videotaped evidence to prove you weren't lying. He would do that with an All Pro line or a patchworked one, it didn't matter. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I find myself thinking things like, "What in the world???" alot more than before. So my answer is yes, I believe there is a difference in HIM as a playcaller. Not the pieces of the puzzle or his faith. Because those things didn't stand in his way before. But there is no one else that I would rather have as the Head Coach of my favorite team, period. Just my observation.