Christmas debate.

[Henry]

I believe it is implied. As in: "If you say Merry Christmas, you may offend and therefore have unsatisfied customers."

You have to say Happy Holidays as to not offend Costanza

I took it to mean this:

"We serve and employ a diverse range of people at our stores. We try to meet the needs of every guest throughout the year by helping them celebrate the holidays and traditions that are important to them. That's why our merchandise, advertising and marketing include a diversity of traditions, particularly at this time of year."

No wait. That's from Target. Shame on them.

[rincewind]

I took it to mean this:

"We serve and employ a diverse range of people at our stores. We try to meet the needs of every guest throughout the year by helping them celebrate the holidays and traditions that are important to them. That's why our merchandise, advertising and marketing include a diversity of traditions, particularly at this time of year."

No wait. That's from Target. Shame on them.

First - again i believe it is what is being IMPLIED. and, it seems to me they are implying - don't insult anyone by saying 'Merry Christmas'

Second - is that an offical Target statement; if so, link?

Last - i'm going back to that favorite moderator thread to vote for someone else

[CEJ2200]

Some say Happy Holidays, I say Merry Christmas. That's what I believe, and why I address those I meet in that manner. If someone wishes me a Happy Holiday, so be it, but I will continue saying MERRY CHRISTMAS

[Art Monk Fan]

1. "Happy Holidays" as a greeting is perfectly fine, it includes Christmas, Kwanza & Hanukah and works best for a business — you have no idea what (if anything) any particular customer might celebrate, so you play it safe and use a generic term. This shouldn't be a big deal.

2. A "Holiday tree" is just stupid. Neither Kwanza nor Hanukah is celebrated by decorating a dead pine tree, only Christmas is. Regardless of its pagan origins, the only currently-celebrated holiday during December in which a dead pine tree is displayed is Christmas; therefore it is a Christmas tree, period.

3. Xmas is not offensive, if you know your history. Please see the following from Wikipedia:

Xmas (or X-mas) is an abbreviation for Christmas. It is derived from the word ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ, transliterated as Christos, which is Greek for Christ. Greek is the language in which the whole New Testament was written.

Originally, in "Xmas", X represented the Greek letter χ (see chi). It was pronounced with an aspirated [kh], which is the first letter of Christ's name in Greek. However, because an upper-case χ has the same shape as a Latin alphabet letter X, many people who do not know the history assume that this abbreviation is meant to "take Christ out of Christmas" as a means of secularization or a vehicle for political correctness.

[Henry]

First - again i believe it is what is being IMPLIED. and, it seems to me they are implying - don't insult anyone by saying 'Merry Christmas'

Second - is that an offical Target statement; if so, link?

At the bottom of the page. Interesting read, which doesn't resolve the debate, though it does look into it more deeply than we have here:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/targetxmas.asp

Last - i'm going back to that favorite moderator thread to vote for someone else

It's because I'm Jewish, isn't it?

Art Monk Fan, I agree on all points.

[SoCalSkins]

2. A "Holiday tree" is just stupid. Neither Kwanza nor Hanukah is celebrated by decorating a dead pine tree, only Christmas is. Regardless of its pagan origins, the only currently-celebrated holiday during December in which a dead pine tree is displayed is Christmas; therefore it is a Christmas tree, period.

Wikipedia:

Totally disagree with that one. You could celebrate the winter soltice, decorate a dead pine and call it a holiday tree and have nothing to do with Christianity.

[bpoch]

Lets make it easy and just drop Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays and just say, have a good night.

[Stick27]

well of course i have to out my 3 cents in , I think the christmas tree should still be called the christmas tree cus the is Just american , the tree I believe came from the roman era . as of Christmas it self. I do Have to say the page the college student wrote was very decient tell her i think it was a good job , & Yes It is Christmas = More Christ so why shouldn't we celabate the birth of the one Jesus the Christ the one who bore all of our sins . Look @ it like this

col-1:16

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

So Christ created all things even the christmas tree so why should we not celebate it as CHRISTMAS:point2sky

[Winslowalrob]

well of course i have to out my 3 cents in , I think the christmas tree should still be called the christmas tree cus the is Just american , the tree I believe came from the roman era . as of Christmas it self. I do Have to say the page the college student wrote was very decient tell her i think it was a good job , & Yes It is Christmas = More Christ so why shouldn't we celabate the birth of the one Jesus the Christ the one who bore all of our sins . Look @ it like this

col-1:16

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

So Christ created all things even the christmas tree so why should we not celebate it as CHRISTMAS:point2sky

Wait, CHRIST created everything? I thought God was the big cheese up there. If Christ is more powerful than God, then why didn't Christ send God down to die for our sins... so confused right now!

[tlk2rn]

You know...every year this debate cracks me up. Some people get so torqued up over the "Happy Holiday" greeting. For what? As a Christian, I tend to greet people with a "Merry Christmas"...it's just what I'm used to doing and I doubt I'll ever switch over to Happy Holidays. If I ever greeted someone that way and they were offended by it, I would sincerely apologize.

No man don't apologize for what is in you. I'm a very truthful person and sometimes the truth hurts. I cant apologize for the truth (generally speaking). If someone comes to me and says happy kwanzaa or happy Hanukkah or happy holidays it will not offend me. I've had people to tell me Jesus aint ****. That is what they believe. But my thing is this; if you can tell me what you believe, I have every right to tell you what I believe. So if someone says to me happy holidays, I will smile and politely say,"Merry Chrismas to you." Just as all the other days of the year before I say good bye to someone I will always say

God bless you, or have a blessed one, or be blessed. If they are offended they can walk away.

[tlk2rn]

Wait, CHRIST created everything? I thought God was the big cheese up there. If Christ is more powerful than God, then why didn't Christ send God down to die for our sins... so confused right now!

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God. 1:3 All things were made through him. Without him was not anything made that has been made.

Many things are hard to understand. Somethings honestly I dont understand but that is what faith is. All religions work by faith and for some reason a Christians faith is seen as confusing and none others. The Word that this verse is speaking of is Christ. In other words God and Christ are both destinct

but they are also the same. They are seperate but yet equal. It is all about faith my man. Just as you have faith that your car will start in the morning, noon or night to carry you to work or just as you have faith that our Skins will make it to the play-offs. You don't see it but you believe it is there and you believe it will happen.

[Predicto]

Why is this a controversy?

Because Bill O'Reilly says it is a controversy.

Here is a funny clip.

http://stfunoob.com/sa/TDS-OReilly-bustedonChristmas.wmv

[Art Monk Fan]

Totally disagree with that one. You could celebrate the winter soltice, decorate a dead pine and call it a holiday tree and have nothing to do with Christianity.

Sure, you could, but no one does. Kwanza and Hanukah could incorporate a decorated pine tree into their traditions, but they haven't. There is only one holiday which is currenlty celebrated in late December involving the decoration of a dead pine tree, namely Christmas.

Now, Christmas is celebrated by lots of folks who aren't religious at all, and for whom the holiday, and the tree, have nothing to do with Christianity. But even these folks call December 25th Christams, not "Holiday."

Refusing to call a Christams tree a Christmas tree is simply PC nonsense. And the stupidity of it makes us all a little dumber for having to sufffer it.

[Predicto]

Sure, you could, but no one does. Kwanza and Hanukah could incorporate a decorated pine tree into their traditions, but they haven't. There is only one holiday which is currenlty celebrated in late December involving the decoration of a dead pine tree, namely Christmas.

Now, Christmas is celebrated by lots of folks who aren't religious at all, and for whom the holiday, and the tree, have nothing to do with Christianity. But even these folks call December 25th Christams, not "Holiday."

Refusing to call a Christams tree a Christmas tree is simply PC nonsense. And the stupidity of it makes us all a little dumber for having to sufffer it.

What percentage of people are really refusing to call a Christmas tree a Christmas tree? Gotta be less than one percent.

Who is really complaining about someone saying Merry Christmas to them? I have still yet to meet a single person like that, and I live in San Francisco.

The real controversy, as I understand it, is whether Christians have a right to be offended when businesses and other entities say "Happy Holidays" instead of Merry Christmas. Jerry Falwell, Bill O'Reilly and others are saying that this is somehow an insult to Christianity and Christians.

Somehow, the question keeps getting turned back around, over and over.

[chomerics]

Why is this a controversy?

Because Bill O'Reilly says it is a controversy.

Here is a funny clip.

http://stfunoob.com/sa/TDS-OReilly-bustedonChristmas.wmv

I was waiting for somebody to post that. . . freakin hillarious

The funniest part is O'Reilly looks into the camera and says. . .

"And a Merry Christmas to you John Stewart"

But Stewart is Jewish :doh:

You can't make this crap up. . . too funny :rotflmao:

[stevenaa]

AAAAAAAAAAGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Is this really worth debating. Say what makes you happy, and don't be offended by anyone elses holiday greetings. Seems simple enough to me.

I'm a Christian. I usually say Happy Holidays until the week of Christmas. No particular reason other than the Holiday Season encompasses other religious holidays as well as Turkey day (oops I mean Thanksgiving) and New Years. I started doing this when I was a kid working retail, and have continued to this day.

[altair4]

Another homogenized media debate about nothing...we Druids have been celebrating the Winter Solstice long before any wise men showed up. Call it what you want, its all hype and over-commercialization anyway...

[Joe Sick]

I know that science gets put on the back burner where religion is concerned, but isn't it pretty well accepted that Jesus' birthday was sometime in early April of 1 BC?

It just seems to me that Christians should be more worried about the significance of the holiday to themselves and their faith than what a cashier says while they are buying a Tickle-Me Elmo to celebrate the savior's birth.

When I go into a store, I could care less what a cashier says. Just ring my stuff up (no I don't want to apply for a 15% APR credit card) and let me get the hell out of there.

[tlk2rn]

I know that science gets put on the back burner where religion is concerned, but isn't it pretty well accepted that Jesus' birthday was sometime in early April of 1 BC?

It just seems to me that Christians should be more worried about the significance of the holiday to themselves and their faith than what a cashier says while they are buying a Tickle-Me Elmo to celebrate the savior's birth.

When I go into a store, I could care less what a cashier says. Just ring my stuff up (no I don't want to apply for a 15% APR credit card) and let me get the hell out of there.

If you talk to most Christians such as myself, we generaly don't care what you say. I celebrate Jesus year around because he is in me. But no one is sure when he was born. It is just a day set aside each year to celebrate his birth. And yes I buy presents for my wife and children. Big deal, because I buy stuff for them year around. A few people on this thread are making a big deal of us buying gifts, but what other time of year other than Thanksgiving or Easter does the entire family get together. And this year we can watch a little football. Your greeting to me doesn't matter. You can greet me by saying **** you man and I will say,"God bless you too."

[Art Monk Fan]

I know that science gets put on the back burner where religion is concerned, but isn't it pretty well accepted that Jesus' birthday was sometime in early April of 1 BC?

It just seems to me that Christians should be more worried about the significance of the holiday to themselves and their faith than what a cashier says while they are buying a Tickle-Me Elmo to celebrate the savior's birth.

When I go into a store, I could care less what a cashier says. Just ring my stuff up (no I don't want to apply for a 15% APR credit card) and let me get the hell out of there.

Yes, it is largely accepted that Christ was born in the spring. The celebratin of his birth was strategically placed to coincide with a pagan celebration, making conversion easier by allowing the continuation of a cultural tradition to celebrate a major holiday in late December. In fact, it was not even customary at the time this decision was made to celebrate anyones birthday, this was a strategic decision made by the early Church.

BTW, just as Hanukah is not the highest holy day for Jews, Christmas isn't the most sacred day for Christians, that would be Easter.