Ramsey to Bears?

[Yomar]

true, but those would be my demands, otherwise, why in the world would the Skins do it...unless they truly believe DW is Montana re-incarnate

[W&M]

At this point, I think Ramsey's best move, would be to call up Synder as say "I made a mistake, give me the best deal you got, I'll fire my agent, hire a new one with instructions to sign the deal that day ... and then we'll blame the whole thing on the agent".

Holding out for an entire year would be a various dangerous and stupid game for Ramsey.

As it was, many considered him a reach at 32. His stock aint' going to go up with a year of inaction. Especially when next year's draft may yield up to SIX (6) potential first round QB's.

And believe me, no team is going to blame the Skins for having a cheap owner if the hold-out were to persist for a year.

Indeed, the owners would probably give Synder a pat on the back and thank him for holding the company line on a draftee hoping to set precedent.

In the end, Ramsey would get drafted lower, and he'll be tagged with a selfish attitude (i.e., McNown, Leaf, etc) which will be very hard to shake off.

[indyskinsfan]

I see it this way. We are NOT as desperate now for an OG this season, as they are in the confidence of Miller (after all isn't he a good starter and pro who got them to the divisionals last year??).

So why are WE the ones talking to anyone of trading someone that is due to sign and is still considered the future QB. If Wuerffel goes down, Matthews can't hang and Sage is all we got, what do we do then - call Tony Banks. Please, that's just out there to mess with some heads - in the East :laugh:

No way Ramsey's going anywhere.

No thanks, I like my Martini, shaken, not stirred.

[SurfinSkinFan]

This guy is such a stud QB playing who? UAB? Cincinnati ... Bearcats? I just don't believe the hype when he was drafted ... but I went along with it because SOS should have had some input into it ... and the guy knows quarterbacks. But the more this develops, the more I feel that 1. Steve didn't have a lot of say in this selection. 2. The quality of QBs in next years draft are really phenomenal 3. We need help now at both the guard positions .. and could use an extra DB.

So I go with trade his butt. The three headed QB of Danny/Sage/Shane can get it done this year ... with our D ... yes they can.

and really ... would you rather have Patrick Ramsey? Or a choice of Rex Grossman, Eli Manning, Ken Dorsey, Byron Leftwich, Chris Simms, or Dave Ragone? That is a nobrainer ot me.

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

Originally posted by SurfinSkinFan

would you rather have Patrick Ramsey? Or a choice of Rex Grossman, Eli Manning, Ken Dorsey, Byron Leftwich, Chris Simms, or Dave Ragone? That is a nobrainer ot me.

Hmm.... Lemme see.....

[x] None of the above.

My money's on Wuerffel. I think he's going to have a big year for us, and at 28, he's got a long future. We might even trade Ramsey next offseason. We can use next year's #1 on a DE, DT or OG.

[ChrisFul]

First of all, Eli and Rex may not come out. And second, it doesn't matter WHO you draft, they are going to take a few years to develop. The only QB next season that could step in and perform well as a rookie IS Grossman. You trade Ramsey now, you effectively set yourself back a year. Also, like i said earlier, who in the world is going to give you ANYTHING for Ramsey with that class next year? There will be value at the QB spot clear into the third Round.

[OrangeSkin]

I am getting more and more annoyed that we drafted Ramsey. Talk about a wasted pick. We could have solidified our O-line, but instead we had to draft a kid that is hampering our team more than he is helping.

If we had taken Fonoti or Gurode, then we would have a season to see if Danny is good enough to stick around for several years, if Sage is good enough to eventually become the starter, or if Shane is good enough to keep the QB position warm for a yet unnamed franchise QB. Then we could've reacted to the according situation and had one of the QB richest drafts ever.

Unfortunately we had to jump the gun on this kid who thinks he's worth more than he actually is. Perhaps the only value we'll get out of him is a top pick or a starting guard, something we should have had anyway if we didn't draft this idiot.

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

Originally posted by OrangeSkin

I am getting more and more annoyed that we drafted Ramsey. Talk about a wasted pick.

This is my feeling as well at the moment, but keep in mind it was Snyder's hedge against drinking the whole bucket of Spurrier Koolaid.

We now have the benefit of watching Wuerffel play in a real NFL (exhibition) game. Back in April, everybody and their uncle was saying that Wuerffel wasn't good enough to operate the Gatorade dispenser. Snyder took a common-sense hedge and drafted the best QB he could. It made sense then, even if it's looking less than optimal now.

Ramsey needs his head examined.

[GatorEye]

Originally posted by Atlanta Skins Fan

This is my feeling as well at the moment, but keep in mind it was Snyder's hedge against drinking the whole bucket of Spurrier Koolaid.

We now have the benefit of watching Wuerffel play in a real NFL (exhibition) game. Back in April, everybody and their uncle was saying that Wuerffel wasn't good enough to operate the Gatorade dispenser. Snyder took a common-sense hedge and drafted the best QB he could. It made sense then, even if it's looking less than optimal now.

Ramsey needs his head examined.

Snyder decided to diversify his portfolio and it's kind of hard to fault him for that. Hindsight is 20/20. If DW had stunk up the joint, everyone would be saying - it's a good thing we drafted Ramsey. Now he plays one good game and people think Ramsey was a wasted pick. That's not really fair.

SOS couldn't have REALLY known how Danny and Shane would play after being out of the system all that time. Having said that - I personally do feel drafting Ramsey was a mistake given we could have strengthed the D-Line or O-Line knowing next year's QB class was going to be loaded. Ramsey probably wasn't going to be a starter this year anyway.

Easy to be an armchair QB isn't it?

[OrangeSkin]

Gatoreye - But everybody knew that Ramsey wasn't going to start this year. It was a battle between Danny and Shane from the very beginning.

I suppose if Danny bombed on Saturday and theoretically Shane bombs against Carolina, then we'd just say screw it and give up on the season by starting Ramsey? Nah, we ain't goin' out like that.

If Danny and Shane both are absolute crap, then everybody would've wondered why we didn't trade for Bledsoe.

[g8wayg8r]

If Ramsey is soooo good, maybe the Skins can sucker Chicago or some other wanna be into a trade kind of like the Minnesota-Dallas trade for Herschel Walker. If not and we can't sign him, maybe a trade for a decent guard would be in our best interest.

[SurfinSkinFan]

Originally posted by ChrisFul

First of all, Eli and Rex may not come out. And second, it doesn't matter WHO you draft, they are going to take a few years to develop. The only QB next season that could step in and perform well as a rookie IS Grossman.

Rex has already stated he is coming out this year. Eli? The word in Oxford is Archie wants him to come out, he was not happy with a lot of issues that came up with Peyton's final year at UT.

I disagree with the few years to develop part of your post ... give SOS Eli Manning ... or Leftwich/Dorsey/Ragone for a year .. and look out. But I agree, I do think he can develop Ramsey into an excellent QB ... but will Ramsey ever be a Manning? Or a Grossman? I have to say no.

[SurfinSkinFan]

Someone just posted a link to an article from Mel Kiper at ESPN stating the exact same thing I was saying .... Next years QBs ...

Mel must be bugging my phones again .... :cool:

[indyskinsfan]

I stand corrected -- GAWDDa*mitt

Done up and done it!

Son, you done opened a can o' worms! Aint no smoke without fire!

Chi-town's got two guards and a #2 then we package and trade up for the best player available in the draft, going with Wuerffel, Sage and Matthews. That's it!

Now a hint. After Chicago trades, do you really think Ramsey will remain in Chicago or Dallas? - Aw you know you care :laugh:

[ChrisFul]

Originally posted by SurfinSkinFan

I disagree with the few years to develop part of your post ... give SOS Eli Manning ... or Leftwich/Dorsey/Ragone for a year .. and look out. But I agree, I do think he can develop Ramsey into an excellent QB ... but will Ramsey ever be a Manning? Or a Grossman? I have to say no.

Well, go back and look at what Rookies have been successful as Starting QBs in the NFL. The list is a VERY, VERY, short one I assure you. ON average it takes about 2 seasons to get your Rookie QB playing at a high level. Some of the really good ones only take one year, but even then that is rare.

[Gamebreaker]

I think trading a rookie QB, who hasn't even gone to training camp yet just because a journeyman QB looked good aganist backups and scrubs is ridiculous. I know Wuerrfel knows the system, but consider who he was playing aganist. The bottom line is, he threw some passes out there that would've been picked off had he'd been playing aganist better players. I counted around 2 or 3 passes that were like that. He played well, but he surely didn't play well enough to consider trading away our future.

Also, has everyone forgotten how vanilla defenses are in pre-season? Can we at least wait for Wuerrfel to actually prove something in, dare I say, a REAL game before we call him our franchise QB.

If Wuerrfel doesn't succeed this season, it will most likely be his lack of arm strength that lets us down. The same could be said for Matthews. I know the system calls for the QB knowing the system like the back of his hand to be successful. Yet there will be instances where the QB will need a strong arm and an accurate, hard-thrown pass to move the chains. Ramsey, given a year to learn this system, could get the job done. We already know whether Wuerrfel and Matthews couldn't.

So let's can all the talk about trading our rookie QB just because he isn't in camp yet. Especially when he never had much of a chance of starting this season in the first place.

[OrangeSkin]

Trading Ramsey for a guard greatly increases our chances of competing THIS YEAR, and if Danny or Shane sucks we can just draft a stud next year and perhaps pick up a servicable QB in free agency.

The time is NOW if we are going to trade Ramsey, because time runs out Friday. Danny definitely looked good enough to tell me that we should do it.

[ChrisFul]

Originally posted by Gamebreaker

I think trading a rookie QB, who hasn't even gone to training camp yet just because a journeyman QB looked good aganist backups and scrubs is ridiculous. I know Wuerrfel knows the system, but consider who he was playing aganist. The bottom line is, he threw some passes out there that would've been picked off had he'd been playing aganist better players. I counted around 2 or 3 passes that were like that. He played well, but he surely didn't play well enough to consider trading away our future.

Also, has everyone forgotten how vanilla defenses are in pre-season? Can we at least wait for Wuerrfel to actually prove something in, dare I say, a REAL game before we call him our franchise QB.

If Wuerrfel doesn't succeed this season, it will most likely be his lack of arm strength that lets us down. The same could be said for Matthews. I know the system calls for the QB knowing the system like the back of his hand to be successful. Yet there will be instances where the QB will need a strong arm and an accurate, hard-thrown pass to move the chains. Ramsey, given a year to learn this system, could get the job done. We already know whether Wuerrfel and Matthews couldn't.

So let's can all the talk about trading our rookie QB just because he isn't in camp yet. Especially when he never had much of a chance of starting this season in the first place.

Finally. A fan without the blinders fixed firmly in place.

[MRMADD]

Looks like everyone has soured on Ramsey and his agent. We can all understand a top 10 pick holding out -- especially with millions of dollars at stake. Everyone has forgiven Lavar. But this kid? He's got a year of clipboard-holding ahead of him, and he's got the audacity to demand concessions from the Skins as if he's the next Joey T?

There is no chance at all that the Skins will trade Ramsey to the Bears or anyone else by Friday given the salary cap implications. More likely than not, the kid will be in camp by then. But he's got a hell of a lot to prove now, and there aren't a lot of forgive-and-forget fans in DC.

The best thing this kid could do is fire his agent, get into camp, and beg the teams' and fans' forgiveness for his stupidity. But he won't. He's got dollar signs in his eyes. It's a shame, because he's not a superstar -- he's going to have to work hard to be successful in the NFL, and it sure won't help to have alienated all the fans before he takes his first snap.

God, can't these kids read a newspaper? Doesn't he realize that he has already been tagged 'Baby Heath'? He needs a good kick in the a$s... if he gets to camp by this weekend, maybe Ball Coach should throw him into the Carolina game behind the second-string line and let him get some sense knocked into him.

[Gamebreaker]

Originally posted by OrangeSkin

Danny definitely looked good enough to tell me that we should do it.

OrangeSkin, exactly how did he do that? I mean, I should expect him to shine aganist a whole unit of backups and scrubs. In a regular season game, he will be playing aganist players with more skill, and a lot more experience.

Sorry, but in my eyes he hasn't proven enough.

[Art]

Against starters, how would his passes have been off target when they weren't on Saturday? The argument that he played well against backups is fine, but it isn't fair. Wuerffel played well period. It happened to be backups he was up against, but the balls he was delivering were on the money and it really doesn't matter who he's playing against. An accurate, on time, well thrown ball is so regardless of whether you're going against Plummer or Rumph.

Now, will defenses adjust and hide coverages and change up before the snap more than Saturday? Sure they will. Will that make it harder to get proper reads and be quite as decisive with the ball? Absolutely. But, we know now that if Wuerffel knows what play to go to against a specific defense he can make the appropriate throw. It doesn't matter if Champ and Smoot are back there or not. The throw will be there if the receiver is. That is a doubt we all had that we don't have now.

And that's enough to be glad the first game is by us and a second game is coming. We have an idea now where we didn't before. For what more could you ask?

[indyskinsfan]

Gamebreaker, good points and my wavering on him (Ramsey) is at first glance shameful. However, if the agreement that now seems tobe coming together, again falls apart, he will make himself available for such a move, at least as a consideration, where before it didn't even come across the team's mind.

Also, I agree that he should fire his agent, because the parameters were set when the player before and after his selection signed. It wasn't that difficult, and now the Skins have held and Ramsey, should he sign wouldn't have changed a thing in negotiations, but lengthen his curve for even a smell of a chance this year.

[Gamebreaker]

Art, I wasn't talking about the balls that he threw accurately. I was talking about the 2 or 3 passes he threw that were nearly picked off, and would've been by better players.

An accurate, on time, well thrown ball is so regardless of whether you're going against Plummer or Rumph.

...and an off-target, floater is most certainly going to picked off and returned by Plummer than it would by Rumph.

[ChrisFul]

Agreed. Some of those Open WRs wouldnt have been so open vs. a first team corner, and the close balls would have been most definitely been knocked down or picked by a Defender with the closing speed, instincts, and ability of a 1st team corner.

[Art]

GB,

I understand. You have taken two relatively poorly thrown balls out of 25 passes and decided THAT is what was crucially important from Wuerffel's performance Saturday. I simply don't understand how you can take those two near interceptions away from the game at the expense of the 20 other perfect throws.

I do not subscribe to the trade Ramsey school of thought here based upon the strength of Wuerffel's 20 perfect throws. I didn't support drafting Ramsey because I, like others, felt since he wasn't going to help us THIS year, that if we felt we could win and be competitive this year we should have picked a player to help us NOW rather than later. The reason the possibility of trading Ramsey is appealing to some of us really is less that Wuerffel threw 20 perfect passes than most of us didn't want him in the first place and since he can NOT help us this year, what's the point of having him at all.

Again, if Spurrier is correct about what he needs at QB and that QB is Wuerffel, Ramsey will never see game action for the Redskins. But, that matters very little. Wuerffel's performance isn't enough to persuade me that we are now so set at QB that we have no worries. It was good enough to persuade me that Spurrier understands what he has in Wuerffel and knows how to get him to perform.

Obviously he's got limitations. Those will come into play in some games this year. But, it's hard for me to understand the mindset that would allow you to take two passes out of the rest and focus on those as your rationale for why he didn't play as well as he did.

Again, as Brett Favre says, there are some games where he should have 10 interceptions and he comes out with five TDs instead with no interceptions. Interceptions aren't going to kill a team if you are otherwise making good plays in a passing offense. We'll see how that plays out. I just don't think it's fair to assume every time a defensive back has a chance at an interception that he'll make it. We're talking about defensive backs here and they are not known to have the world's greatest hands.