skinny21

I’m glad Hudson got a chance at some real PT at the end of last year.  Played a lot of snaps in the final 4 games and accrued 52 total tackles, 30 solo, 2 PDs, 4 TFLs (along with a sack he got earlier in the year).  Obviously extrapolation is a faulty means of judgement, but 200+ total tackles would have lead the league I believe (Wagner was 1st with a combined 183).  Will be interesting to see what comes of his time with NO.

And randomly, while looking at stats I noticed St Juste lead the team in PDs with 17.  Surprisingly, Forbes was 2nd with 11 and Fuller was 3rd with just 9.

1 hour ago, gooseneck said:

sent list for tomorrow - gone for about 3 hours

 

Thursday I might have a court hearing in Billings which is an 800 mile round drive for me- will send in a list if I am.

 

 

So what exactly did you do at that store in Missoula?  
 

Scratch that, I don’t wanna know.  

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah there is so much depth at WR. Probably can get a good one in round 3 as well. But I've targeted round 3 for CBs. That's gonna be the sweet spot for a top notch slot/nickel CB. And I wouldn't mind doubling down on OT again in round 3 as well(assuming we take one in round 2).

I’ve been operating under the assumption Martin would be our slot corner (which may be incorrect), and of course St Juste can move inside as well.  So I’ve been leaning boundary corner over wr in the 2nd.  But again, I could be way off base.

I’d be down with doubling up on OT in the 3rd (assuming we take one in rd 2).  Would love to land Sinnot or Stover there as well - let them learn under Ertz for a year.

46 minutes ago, Dah-Dee said:

 

I mean, okay, but it might take me a little while to get there:

 

The key is to stay away from bridges…

(it’s ok, I hate myself too)

1 hour ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

I think that voluntary minicamp in 3 weeks will see almost full attendance.

 

And even if they work out on their own, don’t sweat it, the team can still chase the dream….😉

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah I think WR is an absolute must in round 2. There's gonna be really good value and we didn't do much to address the position in FA besides a couple ST signings.

 

I can't decide who my WR crush in round 2 is. I flip between McConkey and Corley but there's still part of me that is intrigued by Coleman.

Personally, I’d add guys like Pearsall, Legette, Franklin, Roman Wilson, Polk, Burton and Thrash (and probably others I’m forgetting) to your group.  Which likely means one or more fall to the 3rd.  In other words, I’m not opposed to nabbing one in round 2, but I’m ok waiting too.  

Two things jump to mind when looking at this receiving group - 1) we have 3 guys that can play in the slot, so my temptation is to focus on an outside receiver.  

Number 2 is a bit more complicated… last year Terry and Dotson got dinged heavily in terms of separation.  Not sure how much is their fault vs scheme, qbing, play calling, etc.  I believe Dotson’s short area quickness testing wasn’t great relative to his speed/route running.  Worth considering that I think both of them are better at the intermediate routes than short routes - the longer ones take advantage of their route running IMO.  This year we’re replicating some of the same issues - concerns about pass pro (from our tackles) forcing more quick throws, having an inexperienced qb in the backfield, and implementing a new scheme.  Long story short, I’m uncertain whether to focus more on which of these draftees can win/separate quickly.  

Both of those factors narrow the field in terms of fit, which could alter how comfortable the FO would be waiting on addressing receiver.

The ES Mock highlights the potential if we trade down in the 2nd.  With the obvious caveat that the draft won’t shake out like the mock, trading down 5-15 spots from 40 (let alone 36) still leaves some/most of the next tier of tackles on the board, DEs Kneeland, Trice, Braswell, and Isaac, wrs Pearsall, Franklin, Worthy, Coleman, Corley, etc, some of the top safeties, some quality corners, etc.  No guarantees we can find a trade partner of course, but I imagine having the two 2nd rounders increases our chances of finding one.

2 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

Daniels played very well in that game. He had some awful drops happen to him. And Bama had no answer for his legs. The pick was not his fault either. I know I am an outlier here. But I am probably one of the few that would be happy with either of them. I do think what you see right now is what Daniels is. He isnt going to grow a whole lot from here. And that is a damn good player. The question is what will Maye be 2 years from now when he is Daniels age? With the right coaching a top 5 player and an all pro is my guess. 

Maye’s upside is tantalizing.  Not only because he’s relatively young/inexperienced, with all of the tools, and generally correctable flaws, but what happens when he gets 2+ years in the same system?  What happens when he’s supported by a quality oline and pass catchers?

Conversely, are we going to be able to field a better oline and pass catchers for Daniels than what he’s already had (in relation to the defenses LSU played against)?  Now with that said, I think it’s definitely possible that some of his flaws can be improved significantly with coaching and further experience.  In other words, I don’t think it’s a guarantee that he’s at, or nearly at his ceiling, particularly when you factor in his growth trajectory to this point.

To your point though, if I’m picking/betting on which of these two I think has more growth potential ahead of them, I’m going with Maye, and that potential is quite tantalizing.  

I too would be happy with either of them.  Actually, let me amend that - I will be happy with either of them, but the behavioral training that’s come with being a Washington fan is going to have me waiting for the shoe to drop if we select Daniels due to his frame/running style.  Gonna take some time to retrain my brain… if it’s not already too late.

42 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

We did alot of great things in FA, but the oline still a major problem.

Yep.  Given how they’ve addressed other spots, I have to think the FO is well aware too.  The good news (IMO) is 1) it’s a deep OT draft, 2) we’ve got a lot of picks (we could potentially land 2 OTs), and 3) we don’t have to “solve” the position this year - its about the future for this team.  I’m not high on Lucas (though he’s been a quality swing tackle) or Wylie (who is?), but they, along with our other tackles, at least offer a baseline of competition for the two spots.

Kliff’s gonna have to earn his keep protecting/helping our starting tackles.

10 hours ago, e16bball said:

Yes. And I think this is especially the case for us, as the “break” between tiers at the positions we’re looking at seems likely to happen shortly before our pick. At least based on where the draftniks have the players going in their mocks. 

For example, I think there’s a pretty big drop off at OT after Morgan/Guyton — both of whom seem likely to go in the late 20s or early 30s. I think there’s a meaningful drop after Kool-Aid among the CBs, and he’s another who looks likely to go in the late 20s or early 30s. I think there’s a big drop off after the two Robinsons at the EDGE position, and (guess what?) they’re both likely to be in the 20s or early 30s. I don’t think the drop off is quite as steep at the WR position, but after Sanders’s pro day numbers, there’s obviously no TE in play at 36/40 either. 
 

In other words, I do not think 36 and 40 are great “fits” for our needs and the draft board. I think the ideal scenario might be to use one of the 3rds to move up from 36 into the late 20s, and then trade back from 40 into the mid-late 50s to recoup that 3rd rounder. 

Good post.  I’m seeing much the same, though to fair, I’m only going off mocks/analysts, so I could see your scenario playing out.  I think the first question is what happens with the qbs - McCarthy, Penix and Nix.  If they all go prior to 36, better chance someone drops to us.  And conversely, if one of them is still there at 36 (or 40), that may increase our chance of being able to trade down.  Then there’s the idea there are always instances of a prospect going earlier than “expected”.  Obviously not a lot of wriggle room with only 35 players going before our 2nd rounder, but it’s certainly possible.  And then of course it depends on how our board looks - someone we see in that next tier might be higher for our FO.  Perhaps they’d love to land Kneeland, Braswell or Trice at 36, or one of the tackles, corners or receivers.  Heck, maybe even a safety.

Probably the overriding thought I have though is my sense that our FO (driven by Quinn’s philosophy) is going to be focused on a prospect being able to do (at least) one thing particularly well, and that creates an unknown variable for us fans.  So we might push a guy down because of a negative trait, but they know they can coach/scheme around it.  It’s going to be a fascinating draft for sure.

5 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

His running truly is impressive, but his lack of anticipation on throws is concerning. Some of those would have been interceptions in the NFL instead of incompletions. DBs will jump those routes all day long if you wait until the receiver is open when it's a pass that should be thrown before he breaks.

 

Also pulling his eyes down so fast and running instead of looking for a receiver downfield. Yes, it worked out for him, but it still exposes him to more hits and many times leaves bigger plays on the field.

Yeah, it was a good breakdown.  Liked a lot of the ball placement, but you’re absolutely right about pulling the trigger earlier (on the comeback routes in particular).  Seems to me those should be some of the easiest to throw with anticipation - you’re only having to worry about the corner’s depth, vs a backer or safety bracketing - and the fact he’s doing that (multiple times in the same game) in his 5th year… that concerns me.

51 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Ok.

 

But his scramble % is ridiculously high.

 

That doesn't scream "guy who constantly manipulates defenses".

 

Hard to manipulate defenses when you're spending so much time scrambling.

Out of curiosity, is your “ok” a concession that the analysts/ex-qbs are correct that he’s a fast processor?

I have zero take on his ability/tendency to manipulate defenders (or his processing speed), but I have to question your last two statements.  First, I haven’t seen anyone use any qualifier like “constantly”.  Second, he still threw the ball 320+ times.  I’d think that’s a reasonable sample size to judge whether he manipulates defenses.  

Again, I’m not defending his ability on that front, and I’ll add that I think one of your implied points - that running so often muddies an evaluation - is both fair and a bit of a red flag for me.

28 minutes ago, alaroche04 said:

If by processing, you mean "Malik and Brian aren't open enough for my liking...ehhh let me run" then yea, Daniels is a fast processor.

So would I be correct that your stance would be that the aforementioned analysts/ex-qbs can’t parse that info?

I found it interesting that early on, Quinn seemed to emphasize qbs connecting on the deep ball (I’m trying to recall what else he said), whereas at the breakfast interview, he talked about what’s going on between the ears - as though he’s been learning from Peters (and Kliff?) more about evaluation.  Maybe someone with a better memory could flesh this out…

35 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

"...then you're rereading the post and you see somehow you tapped a different word that makes the post read wonky..."

 

That just happened in my previous post!

 

I wrote the word tweeked (as in minor injury) and it auto-corrected to tweeted which made absolutely no sense at all. lol

Was watching Top Chef last night and a dude is in front of the judges talking about editing his food and says “I twerked”.  The room went dead still, everyone staring at him in confusion, and then he says  “I mean I tweaked!”.  

Damn autocorrect indeed, lol

I love puns, so I was scrambling to find some way to contribute.  Decided I’d play it straight and just share my opinion:  I’ve always felt egg puns aren’t all they’re cracked up to be, especially if you have to try too hard.  Then again, as a dad of 3, I’m a sucker for low brow puns (ones meant to go over easy enough for a kid to get them).  

Shell I go on?  (That’s actually a rhetorical question - pretty sure I’ve already done irreparable harm to my street cred, so I’m not going to whisk it)

1 minute ago, Bantu said:

Obviously, this is just a fan's perspective... But the TE talent is really uninspiring in this year's draft class. I do believe good NFL TE's can be unearthed and developed over time so there is a glass half full factor there.

 

As far as Commies go, I wonder what the health of Rogers is looking like as it has been quite a long time since he was hurt so he should be full go for team activities. Cole Turner I've sort of lost all hope for at this point.

I’ve moved Turner to the back burner as well, not necessarily writing him off, but no expecting anything either.  The one thing I’ll say is that while Thomas was a vet (and a good dude), I think Ertz likely brings a bit more knowledge of the position, so its possible that leadership/mentorship, plus Turner going into his 3rd year improves his chances of breaking out a bit.  I’m not holding my breath of course.  And those same things apply to Rogers as well, who has the added benefit of a bit more athleticism than Turner.

All of that said, I can’t see this staff being content with this group.  The good news is that Ertz/Bates are a decent 1/2 in terms of their roles.  Gotta be difficult going into a 3rd offense in 3 years for Bates/Turner/Rogers, but hopefully the transition will be a little smoother for them as they’ve seen/learned more from their time in the league to date.

1 hour ago, MartinC said:

Spoiler - the house comes with two older teenage boys. No give backs. 

That gives new meaning to the phrase “as is”…

I gotta say, as a ‘neutral observer’, it’s pretty wild reading the Daniels stuff.  Like, I’m not sure how he’s even draftable given the things I’ve read on here - he can’t protect himself running, he can’t throw on the run, he can’t throw over the middle, he can’t throw with anticipation, he needs receivers that can get wide open, he’s gonna get destroyed if he gets hit, he has low football IQ when running, and he can’t slide… how is the league so clueless about this guy?

For me, his frame is skinny and it’s going to remain that way.  He just doesn’t have the build to add enough weight to remove fears of him getting hurt, even if he can somehow add 5 or 10 pounds of muscle (which is debatable).  It is what it is.

With that said, I have trouble with the conclusion that he must have added 15-20 pounds of water weight (no peeing!).  Why didn’t he weigh at the combine then?  Who knows, maybe he weighed himself at 208 before arriving and decided he’d hold off until his pro day.  When his pro day weight is the exact same as his listed playing weight, I’m not sure how we arrive at “Occam’s razor says he drank 20 pounds of water just before a throwing session”…  Now if he starts projectile vomiting in the middle of his throwing session, I might change my tune.

Why didn’t he run the 40 then?  Who knows, maybe he didn’t want to risk pulling a hammy.  Maybe he knew teams have the in-season GPS info and put more weight (no pun intended) on that.  Maybe he didn’t want to spend time training for the 40 knowing spending the time on actual qb stuff was more important.

19 minutes ago, PlayAction said:

 

I don't like the idea of selected two DEs with the first three picks (after QB).  Is Patrick Paul OT really worth the #40 pick if he's that raw?  I'd rather go CB because the ones selected after 40 may not be there in a trade down.  For that matter, the WRs might be picked clean.  

Yeah, I mean on the surface, considering Henry’s a relative unknown and Fowler/Ferrell are on 1 year deals, I could see hitting the position twice (and maximizing the chance of landing a stud)… but we have other needs/priorities and the draft has depth at other positions we’ll wanna take advantage of.  Not too worried about wr getting picked clean by our second 3rd round pick though…

17 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Taking two Edges is overkill. Would rather take a WR at one of those spots. Not taking a WR in round 2 or 3 would be criminal this year, akin to not taking a TE last year.

I think for me, the 3rd is ideal for receiver, mainly because I’d be more worried about the drop off at OT, DE, corner and even safety compared to wr.  Certainly not ruling out that we take a receiver in the 2nd of course.  Totally agree that bypassing receiver day 2 would be like bypassing TE last year.  Speaking of which, I can’t shake the hunch we land a TE early-middle of the 3rd, even though the supply is so limited that seems a long shot.

My guess(es):  

We trade back from either 36 or 40 (getting a 3rd round comp pick or a 4th or swapping picks using one of our 5ths)

2nd - OT and corner (possibly DE or S)

3rd - TE, wr, and one of the two spots we didn’t draft in the 2nd

Pick we gain in trade -  double up on one of OT/DE/corner/wr

5th - linebacker and/or running back

Kind of expect (whether or not we trade back in the 2nd) we make another trade later - whether using our 5th to move up or perhaps trading back with a 3rd.  Maybe land a ‘25 pick, like a 4th.

I think we’re in a position to afford the time to develop Maye with a new GM and coaching staff (ie they’ll have at least a couple years before their seats might start to heat up), and the ability to improve our record, even if our qb play isn’t great, due to an improved roster/coaching staff.  Even if we don’t see improvement in our record (or much of one), it’ll be fairly understandable given we’re basically fielding an overhauled roster and implementing new schemes on both sides of the ball.  In other words, “blame” will be shared all around vs being leveled mostly at Maye.

I expect the Vikings to come up to 3 for Daniels (though I’m not as certain that we take Maye as some).

Note - I’m not saying Daniels is inherently much more pro ready than Maye (though I see the argument).

Note 2 - I’m pretty sure my 13 year old has bigger legs than Daniels, and he’s like 5’2 (and not a ‘stout’ 5’2 either).  I’m probably a lot less concerned about Daniels’ frame than some on here, but it is still scary how thin he is… and putting on some weight ain’t changing that thought for me.

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Quan looked good in the little time he got. I think hell make a fine nickel/slot CB / SS hybrid. Theres gonna be a lotta fun different packages between him, Chinn, and Forrest 

 

I wanna see what Forbes can do under this staff. I dont think the book is out on him yet

Yeah, I wonder about Forrest.  Feel like he can play FS, but don’t think it’s his ideal spot.  He was my favorite defender in ‘22.  If we land a high end FS type, Forrest might be reduced to solely a depth role.

Just now, MartinC said:

 

If we are going to be primarily a man coverage team they need to try to trade Forbes now for a bag of used footballs. He is essentially a zone corner - though he can play off man.

I think Forbes playing off man, with us blitzing (with quality blitzers) could open up more turnover possibilities for him, which could increase his value - whether that’s for us, or in terms of a trade.  That’s assuming he even sees the field of course.  If they’re going purely press man, he may well not.

I also think having one cohesive style of play is going to help these guys a fair bit.  The compounded issues (IMO) of communication problems due to coaching issues and multiple coverage styles, along with lacking a pass rush made life impossible for the defense as a whole, but especially the secondary.

On a related note, @RandyHolt might finally get what he’s been looking for from a DC 

1 hour ago, e16bball said:

Perhaps. I’d settle for a short-term answer as well, if you’ve got any ideas on that front. 

 

It seems an odd management choice to invest this massive asset in a young QB, and then make almost no effort to bring aboard an actual quality LT to help secure his blind side. Given that I don’t think this staff are idiots, I’m operating under the assumption that they have some idea in place to take care of that position in a satisfactory fashion.

I’m not sure I’d call it an “odd management choice” vs just not having realistic options, but to your point, it seems like it’s going to be tough and/or require some luck to adequately address the position.

And to your earlier point, odds are a 2nd round tackle isn’t going to solve the position down the road, let alone this year.  Given the depth of this class though, I could see this being a bit of an outlier year compared with the info you shared.  We’ll see.  

In terms of immediate, quality help, as far as I can tell it’s either trading for Bolles (or someone else), though I’m not sure if Denver wants to put themselves where we are now (though I get the cap angle for them) or trading up.

I’m guessing they’re more likely to take a 2nd rounder, perhaps another in the 3rd, and see how the competition plays out.  Essentially living with (most likely) subpar OT play as the young guys(s) develop, and then reexamine the position next year.  Not ideal obviously (unless we get crazy lucky), but it’s also not all about this year of course.  🤷‍♂️

Man, they’ve really revamped our interior.  Allegretti/Deiter/Stromberg fighting for LG (as well as Cosmi’s backup), and along with Biadacz, the latter 2 give us 3 legit center options. Glad they re-signed Lucas.  Now hopefully they can add one or two more tackles in the draft…

5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm not seeing a world where DE and CB aren't BPA for us in the 2nd.

I think @Warhead36 is right that wr could match that, and then (IMO) maybe safety as well.  I tend to believe we’ll land an OT in the 2nd almost no matter what though.  They may not be BPA exactly, but with need/positional importance (generally and in terms of protecting our rookie qb), I expect that’s where we land.  As I said earlier, I could see a trade back before hitting OT.  Trade back from 36 and if all of their tackles are still there at 40, they could pull the trigger, or wait for where ever they traded back to.  Adding another 3rd or 4th would be pretty big given the depth of the draft class and our plethora of needs (and having traded our 4th away - that’s a long wait until the 5th!).  JMO of course.

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't know I think WR has a good chance of being BPA as well. And the fact that we didn't address it at all despite needing a #3 and beyond tells me the FO feels the same way.

Two points:

Given the depth of this wr class, I think they could hold off until round 3 and still land a quality receiver, whereas I think we’ll see a bigger drop off in dbs (there should be quality slot corners in the 3rd, but that’s the one spot I feel ok) and DEs.  That’s my impression anyway.  With that said, I have trouble believing they go defense twice in the 2nd and if a quality receiver falls to us…

I think they’ll absolutely be motivated to add a receiver, but I also think our top 3 (Terry/Jahan/Jamison) are pretty good.  Ideally we land a flanker to compete with Dotson (and add depth) though.  Wouldn’t be surprised if we double dip here (2nd/3rd and again in the 5th).  On the flip side, our corners are all big question marks and Butler is penciled in at FS (yikes).  DE we can get by with what we have, but we could certainly use a stud pass rusher there and Ferrell/Fowler are on 1 year deals.

(Lol that I somehow managed to both agree and disagree with both of you.  Contrarians assemble!)

The consensus mock (NFLdraftdatabase.com) has Kingsley at 45, Amegadjie at 55 and Rosengarten at 62.  No Paul, no Fisher in first two rounds. Depending on fit and the FO’s view of these guys, I could see targeting an OT after trading back from one of our 2nds.

They also have 4 safeties in the 2nd after 40 (including Nubin), and 6 corners in the 2nd from 36 (including us taking TJ Tampa at 36).  On one hand, that suggests pretty good odds we land a db in the 2nd, but on the other hand, I have to assume some quality dbs will slip to the 3rd…

They have us taking Tampa at 36 and Trice at 40.  Kneeland and Braswell are the other 2nd round DEs.

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

So here is how I see the positional breakdown in round 1:

 

QB: 4

WR: 7

OL: 10(combining OT with G and C since so many guys are position flex)

TE: 1

Edge: 3

DT: 2

CB: 5

 

I'm fairly confident in all of these except WR and OL. Think there is some questions there at the bottom tier(i.e. someone like Jordan Morgan, could be end of 1st or could slide to 2nd, but there could also be MORE than 10 OL drafted if a run occurs in the mid to late 20s). WR as well, with guys like McConkey and Worthy who may be late 1st or early 2nd types.

 

There MIGHT be a fourth Edge taken if someone late reaches on someone like Chop or Darius Robinson.

 

Who are your 7 receivers?

1 hour ago, MartinC said:

Russ Grimm lives not that far from me (or at least used to). Should I call round and see if he’s in shape?

Let me break out my very own US related breakfast joke.

 

America - can we eat cake for breakfast?

Rest of the World - no!!

America - what if we call it a muffin?

Brits - can we have cookies for snack time?  What if we call them “biscuits”?

(sounds like I’m being defensive, but you’re absolutely spot on regarding Americans, and I’m well aware “biscuits” came first.  And BTW, my in-laws have a sign in their kitchen - “If you lick the frosting off a cupcake, it’s just a muffin”.  And lastly, a pretty random PSA - nutella has more sugar than cake frosting)