skinny21

21 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

Positive vibes are a nice change, but I just want to establish realistic expectations for the year.  When we set them too high, it tends to cause very harsh negative reactions.  There might be a Bryce Young scenario for Jayden's rookie season where he struggles to adjust to the NFL, and doesn't have the surrounding support necessary for early success.  And that's OK.  Most great QBs either weren't very good as rookies, or didn't play at all.  We just need to stick to the long term plan with Jayden, and build the best possible cradle for his development.  This is going to be a learning year, we're probably not going to be that competitive yet, and we still have a lot of building to do in order to become contenders.

It’s tough not to get swept up in the excitement that (usually) comes with change, and that often gets magnified when you have add a talented rookie qb.  And in our case, it’s not just the qb, but the culture change (for real this time!), a lot of talented and competent coaches, and promising FO/ownership that feels like they’re set to lead us out of the wasteland we’ve been stuck in.

But I’m with you, setting expectations high is asking for disappointment.  IMO, the focus should be on making strides this year, with a clear direction for the future.  The good news is I think the FO gets this.  

I think we can all feel pretty good about our DTs, LBs and Safeties - 3 deep at each spot, plus rooks with potential vying for the 4th spot at the latter two positions (Magee/Hampton).

Corner and DE are a bit sketchier.  At corner, the addition of Davis gives us a baseline of competency, and if St Juste/Forbes relegate Davis to a backup role, all the better.  The scheme and coaching could/should help, and the UDFAs are intriguing.  Sainristil is a nice add, and Martin/St Juste provide depth (though moving them would create a question mark at FS/outside corner).

DE is going to be fascinating.  Here’s hoping someone steps up among Henry, Jean-Baptiste and Jones, because Armstrong and Ferrell/Fowler feel more decent/solid than good.  Of course you have to assume we’ll be getting some pressure from other areas as well.

Overall, I’m pretty optimistic about the D.  Good combo of experience, youth, and athleticism, and it’s nice to have quality coaches across the board.

17 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I feel the opposite way. If you’re in the middle of a rebuild, it’s not a great idea to trade draft capital. 
 

Evaluate our WR room at the end of the season (and also Jayden) and make a more informed decision then. 

17 hours ago, bird_1972 said:

 

I really only like the idea of trading draft picks for players if we are truly only one to two players away from competing for a championship. Since we are not anywhere close to that, seems stupid to trade for a WR this year.

I’m on the fence.

Pros:

I’m not sold on our receivers.

Giving Jayden (or any young qb) better weapons to help his growth curve makes sense.

Whatever pick we trade probably wouldn’t produce anywhere near a guy like Aiyuk.

We have a rookie qb contract, so we can take advantage by spending elsewhere.

We have cap space now and for the future and (so far) don’t have many expensive contracts coming due soon.

Cons:

I like developing in-house

I like the idea of our staff evaluating the current guys (in their systems) and then making moves.

I just generally prefer hitting on a draft pick than bringing in a FA.

I like cheap options that can outperform their contracts.

Holding onto draft space so we can re-sign guys could really come in handy.  Whether that’s our 1 year guys (like Wagner, Ferrell, Fowler, Chinn), or a homegrown guys like Cosmi, etc.

There’s more, but yeah… I don’t know which way I’d go if it were my choice (thankfully it’s not).

4 hours ago, mac8887 said:

I understand that this is not a 1 year rebuild and need to be patient, but if I feel that the offense would be formidable if we were to add another good receiver via trade. If Luke turns out to be good and Dotson finally lives up to his 1st round grade, the offense could be really good. That just seems like a lot to hope for.

I almost agree… but I’m too dubious of our tackle situation.  I do think the combo of coaching, scheme, play calling and Jayden’s legs will help manufacture some degree of competency on the line, but I question if it will be enough.  That’s broad strokes obviously, there’s more nuance of course (pro and con).

Edit:  with that said, I’m really excited to see how the team comes together and I think both sides of the ball might surprise some people.

10 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

Seems like they're similar hits, and Driskel has 11 starts in his bag, okay to meh stats, but he hasn't been Zach Wilson bad or really close to that. I tend to think Driskel's more attractive in that he can step in and play, not sold Hartman ever can. Granted Mariota is filling the same role, but at this point I'm not sure Mariota is better than Driskel (Mariota has the better seasons, for sure, '15 and '16, but he's not done anything of note since, and Driskel's been fine afterwards). It kinda makes sense that they'd go with Hartman to have a developmental guy beyond the vet clipboard guy, but Driskel can run too, and has a track record of solid competent floor starts. 

 

I wonder what direction they go, they've got a weird multi year deal with Hartman, and a 1 and done with Driskel. Personally, I'd keep Driskel, and dump Mariota. 

Gonna be interesting.  I think Hartman’s destined for the PS (no one is going to bring him into their 53 IMO).  I feel you about Mariota vs Driskel, I think they’re a fairly similar level of competency, but frankly, with Daniels as our starter, I’d carry both in case Daniels misses some time (w/ Driskel likely inactive otherwise).

8 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I still can't believe Wagner is on this team. That's just insane to me.

 

Signing Wagner, Luvu and Chinn is going to be a ton of fun to watch. I really like Martin, too and think he'll be a massive upgrade to Butler. 

 

I'm interested to see how DeFo and Davis do in this offense.

I was a big Forrest fan in ‘22.  Some nice hits/tackles, but also some really nice grabs off deflections by St Juste.  That hustle play to get deep on his INT vs Philly (sorry bro) was impressive as well.  He looks like the odd man out now (ditto Davis), but I think these guys will have a role carved out for them - Forrest in 3 safety sets (though I’m guessing Hampton will get a look there as well), and Davis in base D and 2 linebacker sets on passing downs.  And of course they’ll provide quality depth in case of injury.

Edit:  I really like our top 3 guys at both positions and then the additions of Hampton/Magee as understudies.

My guess is they like the idea of Dotson as a #2, but they also want competition for him as well as depth - much like how/why they brought in Crowder and Zaccheus (and drafted Luke).  Dyami and Tinsley haven’t proven anything and MRJ and McCaffrey are rooks (and the latter is probably better suited to the slot, though we’ll see).  I think they’re in the same sort of situation as last year when we brought in Pringle.  And lastly, you wanna be able to give your receivers breathers in-game, especially the outside guys that are playing more snaps.  Maybe one of the current guys will be able to provide that, but I doubt the staff feels comfortable assuming that will be the case.

1 hour ago, Conn said:

lol I had assumed that those were the harnesses that hold the equipment that the medical + analytics departments get their biotracking data from, no? So it’s just a matter of whether the players wear them visibly or not 

Yeah, that’s exactly what they’re for.  Lol at thinking it’s a fashion choice… or that they need/want them for support. 😂

25 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Our WR room blows big time. Possibly league worst. Samuels was close to being the best one last year and he's gone. TMac is legit, but that's it. Dotson sucked big time last year. He's not cemented in as WR2. Any and every WR in camp has a shot at being a starter.

Dotson’s an easy person to root for, but as a player, it’s mostly about his td totals his rookie year.  Poor separation numbers, lackluster production and big time drops last year certainly diminished my expectations for him going forward.  Would have been nice to land a guy that could legitimately compete with him.  Hopefully someone unexpected steps up in a big way to challenge/push Dotson, or Dotson shows major strides this year.  To be fair to him, last year was tough on virtually everyone on the team.

27 minutes ago, Conn said:

I think it’s possible we keep a 7th WR but I would expect a lot of 2TE sets, as well as Sinnott being used all over (eventually). I think if we go with 6 it’s possible we’re a little overloaded on slot guys, yeah. I bet the hope will be that McCaffrey has the ability to play outside eventually. 

Yeah, I’ve been arguing that McCaffrey may well be able to play on the outside at some point in the future (if need be), but until that happens (if it does), only going with 3 outside guys is pretty questionable.  That 3rd guy being a rookie that ran an 4.8 is even more questionable.  Wonder if we see either Crowder or Zaccheus land on the PS instead.

I agree though that our TEs and backs will likely take on a significant portion of the load.

Similar to how I feel about Butler at S, maybe things will click with Dyami in his 3rd season and with better coaching.

16 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

My guess for WR room this year is: McLaurin, Dotson, Crowder, Zaccheaus, McCaffrey, Rosemy-Jacksaint

15 hours ago, Conn said:

Same. Good list. With Crowder and Zaccheus both being established veteran slots (to differing degrees), if McCaffrey starts getting snaps with the starters we’ll know we have a real gem on our hands. 

So that sounds like 3 slot guys and 3 outside receivers?  Or is there some position flex there?

Tinsley is my wildcard.  Of course, while he impressed some people in camp last year, he got a grand total of 3 offensive snaps… so not exactly expecting much there.  Perhaps this staff is able to coach up Dyami…

Back to the thread topic though, reliable hands, high end blocking and (most importantly) ST play is how you make the team on the back end.  Does seem like MRJ might have an inside track…

1 hour ago, Alexa said:

What an amazing looking tee shirt that is. Just lovely. 

Nobody asked you Alexa.

I’m 100% kidding!!!  Sorry, just couldn’t resist, and I completely agree with you - totally dig the shirt. 😁

11 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

He barely ran any deep breaking routes at Rice.  They used him as an underneath zone and flat weapon, where the vast majority of his breaks are coming within ten yards of the line of scrimmage.  I don't think he has the speed and shiftiness and route savvy to be a vertical threat in an offense.  I've read he also struggles with beating press, but I didn't really see a lot of press coverage in his cut ups.  Mostly he was running through zones.

 

The concepts he ran in college were very reminiscent of the kind of role that a TE tends to run.  I guess it's similar to what Ed did back in the day.  There was a lot of slot alignment, and even looked like some h-back alignments.  A bit of wildcat QB, but not much effectiveness from that.  He doesn't have TE size, but he has TE toughness, and I could see him also developing into a very good blocker like his dad, which that plus the Sinnott pick makes me think that Kingsbury is going to run a SF style outside zone run game.

Appreciate the response and the insight/info you provided.

To be clear, I have no idea what to really expect from him, and I definitely buy that at this point he has a limited route tree, lacks some of the experience to sell routes, and struggles vs press.  But, and I’m not trying to be obtuse here, I don’t understand the idea that he lacks speed, shiftiness, and can’t learn the nuances of the position… or the idea that him running a certain route tree in college means he can’t expand that in the pros (not that you’re saying that last part explicitly).  

And not to belabor the point, but a 4.46 is a solid 40 time, and he posted great 3 cone and short shuttle scores.  Now his vert/broad were just good, but still, those athletic scores, combined with decent size and good hands suggest to me he could potentially fit outside.  And his intangibles - work ethic, experience at qb, lack of experience at wr, and family history - suggest he could/should improve his route running and other nuances of the position.

Put another way, (IIRC) he’s got Dyami Brown’s speed, he’s a lot quicker than Dotson, he’s bigger than both of them, arguably has better hands than both, and seems to have the edge on contested catch ability over them as well (I could be wrong on that point though?).  It’s just coaching and experience that he seems to lack.  I’ll certainly concede though that there’s no guarantee that coaching/experience elevates his game enough to warrant snaps on the outside.

Now don’t get me wrong, I see him as competing solely for a slot role this year - all signs point to that.  I just don’t see anything (besides lack of experience) that would inherently preclude him from playing outside at some point in the future.  Well, besides the depth chart.

18 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

I picked up a Tress Way jersey on Fanatics for $30 at the end of this past season and now I find out that Fanatics will send me a free new Tress, signed, jersey if I send in a picture of the one I recently purchased. All on Jayden Daniels dime? This is gonna be a great year!

Well that’s pretty dang cool.  Where can I find the info on this? 

1 hour ago, bird_1972 said:

 

So, not all that good? I don't recall the Texans having that bad of an OL last year although maybe they looked better than they were due to the play of CJ Stroud. 

I get the same impression SIP has offered - that Deiter is a Wes Schweitzer type.  You feel pretty good about him as a backup G/C, but if he’s your full time starter, you’re probably looking for an upgrade.

After seeing Rosemy-Jacksaint’s 40 time, I thought no way this guy works out.  Seeing the comment that he’s dominant on teams, and given the new kickoff rules, I now think there’s a decent chance he carves out a place on the squad.

3 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

I think he can play outside in the way that TEs sometimes line up outside.  His role at Rice was like being a mini-TE.  Mainly a middle field and first level zone beater and blocker, and I assume he'll play a similar role here.  He doesn't have the vertical element in his game to be the kind of outside receiver you're thinking of, nor the ability to build up speed and separation out of downfield breaks against man coverage.  I think his release game is also fairly underdeveloped.

Agree about his release, which is what I was alluding to regarding “in time”.  I’m not sure I follow the vertical element piece though, what am I missing beyond the combo of speed/quickness (and release)?

Kinda wonder if we’re undervaluing McCaffrey.  Just given his size, speed, quickness and hands (including focus and contested catch ability), I’m not sure he couldn’t handle outside receiver duties in time.  I know that’s kind of putting the cart before the horse, but still, lot of upside.  Add in his experience at qb, the fact he’s still learning the receiver position, having his dad and brother’s influence/experience… lot of intangibles to like/love that should bolster his growth.

20 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Listened to Trevor from PFF on Paulsen's podcast addressing the dispairty between him and some mock drafters (who preferred Maye) and most scouts-coaches who prefered Daniels. 

 

Trevor thought was the NFL scouts-coaches were enamored with Daniels consistent mechanics and delivery which Maye didn't share.  It was an interesting listen.  PFF by far were the biggest Maye people along with Nat Trice.  But they also thought Daniels was close behind him.  But it was interesting to hear Trevor explain why he gets why scouts seemed to prefer Daniels and it centered on the consistency of his mechanics.

 

 

 

I’d add that for this team, and Peters in particular, the post-snap recognition/diagnosis seemed like a major factor.  Now given how (relatively) inexperienced Maye is, he’s got the upside to grow in that facet (and others), but not everyone gets there…  whereas they seem to believe Jayden has already displayed it.  

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

I too have no idea what’s going on there, but I love the energy and excitement

12 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

I guess Nabers hasn't been told who the Giants QB is yet (and I LOVE Nabers, so pissed off he landed in NY). 

In his defense, it’s possible the Giants don’t know who the Giants’ QB is yet… 😁

4 minutes ago, AlwaysBeRedskins2Me said:

I know Tress Way is a great guy. Great teammate. Great holder on FGS. However should we consider bringing in competition? I know that sounds crazy but his all pro season was 5 years ago. And last season he was 27th in the NFL in yards per punt. That's abysmal. Flipping the field is critical, at times. Especially backed up in your own territory. And the NFL is filled with punters with monster legs. Much stronger than Tress's apparently. Just saying 🤷

Competition is almost never a bad idea.  I think Tress just had a down year, but you never know…

I hope he sticks (and bounces back) and gets to fill in his captain “C” (which I never knew about until his jersey announcement on Command Center).

Here’s hoping Sinnot can be our Jason Witten (82)…

3 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

Nice pull on the shoulder... likely just draft paranoia.

 

FTR I am not disputing that the league has universally switched to rotating out defensive players notably the DL. Again what I am disputing is that our top players are out of shape or otherwise unable to perform to expectations in just 5.5 minutes of full bore strenuous activity, very liberally spread across 3 hours.  I still contend I will take Allen at 95% than Potatoe' at 100% ICE COLD. That clear backup guy coming in ice cold better be damn ready to get attacked by OCs searching for weak links, and outperform Allen.  If I am an OL or OC I am thrilled Allen and Payne are on the bench. Until we got Newton, at least.

 

If the modern day DCs going to a scrub backups in the 3rd series was a game changer, backup DL would have higher PFF grades than the starters, right?? Finally we have stats on this ****. The backup laden defense collectively also posting better stats than the starters. Lets see them.

 

I bet some here may recall hearing pass rushers subbed out annoyed because they had been setting up an OL and on the bench, their plan neutered.

 

A coach knows who has a high motor laced on Sudafed and a guy that is out of shape. . Sub accordingly.  Here are 2 motors from back in the day.

A few points…

It’s not about being out of shape, it’s about preserving their bodies so they can maintain a high level of play.  Maybe it would be helpful to look at it like MLB pitchers on a pitch count - it’s not because they can’t possibly pitch the whole game.

It’s not about 1 game, it’s the full season of wear and tear.

The backups won’t perform better than the starters, because the idea is having a temporary drop off in play (though ideally you have quality backups to minimize that drop off) so that the starters can better maintain their high level of play.  And yes, OCs will try to take advantage, but DCs will also try to account for that.

As to the time they’re out there (your 5.5 minutes), I feel like you’re looking at it (too simplistically) as pure energy expenditure, when in reality it’s more like doing your max weight for squats.  It’s a lot easier to recover from aerobic than anaerobic, relatively speaking.

Don’t know if this helps, but I randomly saw the interview with Ekler on Command Center, and he talked about being fresher as part of a RBBC.  Said everyone, even practice squad players’ legs are worn out by the end of the season - months of weights and practice take their toll, and that’s magnified when adding game reps… and that’s even further magnified when you’re in the trenches.

I’m not going to assume all coaches inherently now what’s best, and I absolutely applaud you questioning accepted wisdom, but it’s worth considering that this is a collective of strength trainers, position coaches, QC assistants, analytics, nutritionists, the DC, game film, watching practices, etc, arriving at this conclusion.  And it’s worth noting that the entire league (and FBS) uses and values DL rotation.

There’s a part of me that wishes we’d just signed Allegretti to a 1 year deal, essentially leaving an opening for Stromberg (or possibly Coleman) to take over at some point this year or next, but 1) it’s quite possible that security is a big part of why he signed here, and 2) if he loses the starting job next year, he’d be a fairly highly paid backup (not egregiously so though), and then carries a dead cap of 2m in ‘26.

Maybe it’ll turn out that I’m under-appreciating our DEs, but I wish we had a high quality edge rusher that could really challenge our tackles.  Of course our DTs (and blitzing from our backers, etc) should be good preparation for our IOL.  I know Howell had his own issues, but the number of times he faced pressure from multiple areas was highly problematic.

If I had to guess the floor of this unit compared with last year - moderate step down from Leno to Lucas, small step up from Charles to Allegretti, moderate step up from Gates/Larsen to Biadasz.  And then I’d grant them 1) a small step up for (what I presume will be) a more balanced offense, and 2) a small step up from Howell’s slower post-snap reads and EB’s (seeming) lack of catering to personnel to the Daniels/Kingsbury combo.  Here’s hoping we exceed that floor though.

Regarding the Coleman pick, seems like the upside is there to become a decent, or even pretty good tackle, and a pretty good to very good G.  But I’d also say the floor matters as well.  My guess is it’s swing tackle and next man up at G, which is valuable, even if it would be far less than we’re hoping for.

As to the philosophy of the pick, along with not addressing OT in the 2nd, I think it’s fair to guess they probably had a grouping of guys at the spot and figured one or more would fall to 67 - some combo of Fisher/Paul/Rosengarten/Suamataia/Coleman/Wallace/Amegadjie/Foster/etc.  If that is indeed the case, I think it bolsters the logic of selecting Sainristil and Sinnot.  And frankly, even if we’d landed any of those guys in the 2nd, or even traded up for an OT, I still would be nervous about our tackle situation.

Zooming out even further, I expected a draft focused on helping Daniels.  I was imagining drafting at least one tackle and maybe a 2nd (possibly more of a G/T), a receiver or two (particularly given the depth of the position), maybe/probably a TE, maybe a back, and maybe another IOL.

In hindsight though, they…

1) brought back Lucas, which at minimum solves the swing tackle spot, though obviously he’ll compete for the starting gig.

2) signed Allegretti - competition for LG (with Deiter, Stromberg, Paul, Daniels, etc.)

3) signed Deiter - G/C depth (and competition at LG)

4) did a nice job addressing TE with Ertz/Sinnot

5) solidly addressed slot receiver with Crowder/McCaffrey

6) added Ekler, who, while aging, is still (IMO) a quality 3rd down back

7) drafted Coleman

😎signed Biadasz, who is a clear step up from our centers from last year

Nothing new there of course, but I thought it worth noting because while it’s not at all a finished product, it certainly appears that they brought in some solid competition (and therefore depth) and some pretty decent pass catchers.  Additionally, there’s some versatility as well - they can get a bit creative with how they use Sinnot, McCaffrey and Ekler, and they can shuffle the olineman a bit as needed.

All told, in terms of supporting Daniels, I believe they’ve hit on some key areas that typically help young qbs - 

1) improving the IOL to prevent some of the quick, in-your-face pressure

2) will be a bit better able to run the ball (and will almost certainly be a lot more balanced than we saw last year)

3) have an OC that is both creative and will cater to his qb to some extent.  Being a former qb himself, along with adding Brian Johnson, David Blough and Mariota to the mix should help as well.

4) added some qb friendly pass catchers, particularly safety valve types in Ekler, Ertz, Sinnot, Crowder and McCaffrey.

5) majorly overhauled the defense, and did so in a way that seems to really fit what Whitt is going for.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s not all rainbows and potty-trained puppies.  Our tackle position is pretty dang scary still, we really need Dotson to step up big time, there’s a lot of cooks in the kitchen on offense (and likely a lot of voices in Daniels’ ear), and it’s hard to be optimistic about Daniels protecting himself.  I’m also nervous that Daniels is stepping into a situation where he’s learning a new system (see LSU in ‘22) and, relatively speaking, is going to be playing with an inferior oline and wr group than he’s used to.  I do think we’ve made some solid strides in the right direction though, and barring a career ending injury (knock on wood), I expect a bright future for Daniels as they continue making strides in his supporting cast.