seantaylor=god

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I agree with the sentiment. But I think there was plenty there. I had Branch higher rated, personally. Also Murphy, Smith and I had Campbell higher. Had a bunch of O guys higher, too. 
 

But the sentiment RE: the pick I agree with. Gotta see if he can tack on size.

I agree, and if in the second Julius Brents or a CB we love is there we may regret passing on Campbell, Murphy or Smith. But aside from Campbell, they keep dropping. Could be an injury issue, could have bombed interviews. I don’t really see Smith as a great fit for us either.

I was terrified we would reach for a OG or draft a QB, which would have been a disaster with our lame duck coaching staff.

I’m happy with the pick, but I understand your take and opinion more than others. Fit is important. We will see who is there in the second.

But, we got the CB we wanted. We got the second best or best CB in the draft, for us. That’s a fact. I know this because we could have picked any of the others! 😂

41 minutes ago, Conn said:

Don’t understand the impulse to reach on a position that the draft is deep in. Seems like a talented player who need to work on his body in an NFL weight program. Is he the guy you’d expect for a HC who is do or die this season? Not at all, which makes me curious about the pick at least. But definitely feels like a reach. Much worse than Dotson last year. 

You can think they are poor at evaluating talent but it literally can’t be a reach because we picked him OVER other highly rated CBs. There wasn’t a great pick there, the board fell poorly. It’s not like we had a big hole at CB and bypassed ton of great players. I’m not taking a TE at 16. Who else was there but CB? And we took the CB we liked the best for our system.

I think a lot of people are going to be eating crow next year. I love the pick and was hoping we took him after listening to Fred Smoot. 
 

I encourage everyone worried about his size to see what weight he is at in camp. My guess is he’s up to 175 to 180, which is fine. He says he played at 173 during the season.
 

Take a look at his Spider chart, he has the long arms and big wingspan to carry more weight. He has skinny legs, but they don’t prevent him from jumping high, running fast.

And he can catch the football, and when he does he looks to score. 

The board didn’t work in our favor. We got a player we liked and a position we need.

2 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

My guess for the next few picks ...

 

Atlanta - Bijan

Chicago - Skoronski

Philly - Carter

Tennesse - Levis

Detroit - Gonzalez

I don’t like Gonzalez to Detroit he’s like the opposite of their type. They wanted Spoon bad.

1 minute ago, Idaho fan said:

Keep hearing "experts" saying that this draft class isn't anything special.  Maybe 15ish players who actually grade out at as first rounders.... Makes me think this could be the best draft class in decades. 

I think it’s mostly based on lack of production from the guys with good measurables and lack of measurables from guy with the college production/good tape. 
 

Obviously some of these guys will be outstanding players. The hard part is seeing who is going to work the hardest at their craft and really want to be great.

3 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

Any shot they are interested in taking Robinson at 16 tonight?

According to local beat guys, team would consider it. Not sure if they do it. I think he’s the exception to the rule and I would be ok with him at 16.

2 minutes ago, Rex Tomb said:

Wow… Baltimore overpaid I think.  No one was going to sign Lamar or trade for him.  They gave him Mahomes money.

I seriously doubt his next 5 years are as good as his previous time. Older, injured, etc. I think they will be disappointed.

Just because I found it interesting, take a look at the size difference between Forbes and Witherspoon. Forbes is slender, but look at his huge wingspan, arm length, height, etc.

I’m surprised there hasn’t been more made about Witherspoon’s small frame and size. He plays like a freaking animal and I love it but at that size I would be worried more about him than Forbes. I like them both, just interesting.

My first reaction if we took Forbes over Skoronski or Wright would be blind rage.

I would probably talk myself into it, like so:

If this team evaluates Skoronski as an above average guard, with no chance at RT or LT, and is turned off by Wright on character/maturity questions they may not like them despite the tape.

If they genuinely evaluate Forbes as a ball hawk corner, the next Asante Samuel or DHall, and a guy that will score on defense and set up the offense with field position with his vision after interceptions for big returns (Ed Reed) why wouldn’t you take that at 16?
 

But it would be a big risk.

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Forbes the player would be an excellent pick up for us. Absolutely. I'd love to have a player with his skillset (which is close to what Spoon is, except Spoon is bigger).

 

But drafting a 165ish guy at 16 is a tremendous risk. And I believe in trusting your board, but part of the individual evals of a player HAS to be their size. I think someone like Bryce Young overcomes it with his natural ability as a passer. He is truly one of the better QBs we've seen come out in years skillset wise. His size does knock him down a few pegs, though. But I still think he should be the first QB off the board.

 

Forbes size is a bit more questionable on defense. A guy who is 185-190 ish can definitely get by. But 165 is really, really light. They are saying he's 170 now, but who knows. These guys have professionals that can get them to gain some mass for a short period for testing and then get it back off. 

 

A Forbes pick would be a little frustrating. But I love the player so I'd probably get over it. But I'd be skeptical until I see him sustain for the full season. Strategically I think it's an error. But the player himself, skill wise, is very intriguing as a prospect. 

Yeah, I totally understand that and I agree. My issue with Forbes is not the player, but it’s the value at that spot. It’s poor strategy, even if it’s a quality player.

3 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:

One thing I hear about Forbes from I think Tony Pauline was that he was 172 lbs at his pro day and he’s heard teams think his frame can put on more weight. 

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/emmanuel-forbes
Yeah, with that wingspan you would think he could add some weight, that’s not far off of Joey Porter Jr. He has small hands though, so maybe not.

A lot of smoke now with Forbes. I think he’s our trade down target if the OTs we like aren’t there.

I really think we are going to end up getting Skoronski. I think he slides. Call me crazy, and feel free to make fun of me if it doesn’t happen, but if it does, I want the credit. 

Teams care about arm length and projectable traits at OT. If you aren’t sure he has the foot speed, length, or athleticism to stay at OT, do you really want to spend a top 15 pick on moving him to guard? Does he have the raw power to excel at guard in certain schemes?
 

I would love the pick because I put him at LG and let him run with it. As he gets more experience, see if he can take over at OT next year.

5 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Again we have to consider the staff's position. They need to win now this season  The won't be interested in future picks for someone else to utilize.  Look for them to draft a lot of guys who have played a lot at a high level, they are looking for immediate impact players.  

Yep, high floor, lower ceiling. Guys who have played lots of football in college.

1 hour ago, Est.1974 said:

Wonder when @Going Commandois due for release from the cooler. I always look forward to one of his rants when we don’t take his guy 

I really enjoy  @Going Commandoposts (mod edit--comments on board management go in the feedback forum, not in discussion threads per our rules,) Looking forward to reading his thoughts as well.

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

It's a projection. 

 

"I think he won't survive in the NFL".

 

The SEC isn't the NFL, by the way. But betting on a 160lb human to not get hurt routinely in a game with literal giants pulling on screens is a tough projection. 

Fair. He’s 170 pounds. You seem to like Witherspoon a lot. Is 11 pounds the difference between “not surviving” and thriving?

23 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I like Forbes as a ballhawk. He's one of the best in the class.

 

Problem is he is 160 pounds. He won't survive in the NFL. 

I don’t want to draft him at 16, I think there will be a better player there. But I wanted to push back on this definitive statement.

Did Forbes get hurt a lot playing CB in the SEC? Did he show an unwillingness to attack the ball carrier on runs? He’s clearly not on the level of Spoon or some other guys as far as a weapon as a tackler, but he has long arms and seemed solid.

At his pro day he was 170; no reason to think he can’t gain a small amount of weight. He’s 10 pounds less than Witherspoon and almost 2 inches taller.

I understand extra weight in the general sense  helps with making you a bigger target to bring down, gives you more mass to deal with contact, helps insulate from some soft tissue injuries, etc. I just think it’s a bit overblown for a CB. All players get hurt and deal with injuries. The question I would be more concerned with about him, or any player, is Is he tough? Can he play through minor aches, pains, etc. 

Lots of successful players with all sort of different body types, he’s an outlier but I’m not sure it’s a huge deal.

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

If you aren't the smartest QB in the class, how do you step into the NFL and become one of the smartest QBs?

 

I hope this isn't a real quote. Saying this so close to the draft doesn't help him. But IF THIS IS TRUE. I stress IF... That explains the stock drop. 

I was listening to an interview with him on Sirius NFL radio and he didn’t sound like a smart guy. Fumbling over words, and not able to put a sentence together. It may mean nothing to his overall performance as an NFL QB, but when I heard it I sort of understood why a GM or owner may not have a great feeling about him. He does not sound like a bright guy.

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

That would be awful. 

Not as bad as Torrence there, IMO. I’d rather take a chance on a CB that majors in generating turnovers than a first round guard.

6 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I find it hard seeing Leno cut, he is still good and can play multiple positions but you could be correct. More likely Roullier, Norwell and Charles smell like cuts. But could go a lot of way and dependent on who is drafted. 

100%. Leno isn’t going anywhere this year. Could we draft his replacement? Absolutely. But I doubt anyone could supplant him this year, he’s still an average to slightly above average starting LT. Roullier is getting restructured to something more reasonable, and if he doesn’t want to do it he can get cut after June 1 to save 8 mil. No one is handing out big contracts to C with injury issues, so it may be worth it for him to sign back here anyway. I hope we can work something out with him, he was good when healthy and I’d like to see him get back to that level.

Unrelated, did you all know Harrison is a DC native?

Harrison was a four-star recruit and was a top-200 prospect nationally for his play at Archbishop Carroll High School in Washington, D.C.

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

We aren't taking Hooker at 16. No way no how. I'd bet my mortgage on it.

Agree. I think Hooker in the first stinks of agent/draft hype.

I will say I don’t really understand announcing you aren’t signing Chase to the option before the draft. It sends a signal to the league that DE/OLB is in play. Why do that when you don’t have to?

The logical answer is they don’t like the DE/OLB options at 16 and are desperately trying to gin up some interest in a trade down. Put some hesitancy in another FO that they will not get Nolan Smith or Myles Murphy unless you trade ahead of Washington or to 16.

That’s the only logic in it, to me.

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I'll say the drafting/mismanagement of this DL at the expense of other positions (OL specifically, QB) is and should get Ron and Co fired.

 

If we draft another DE in the 1st, I'll be SO done with them. And it has nothing to do with the fact that they drafted a DE in the 1st round because we DO need long-term solutions there. It has more to do with their absolute mismanagement of the DL in general.

 

Drafting Mathis in R2 only to franchise tag and extend Payne is a perfect example. We clearly did that for depth but also in anticipating of Payne walking. Now we have a high-priced R2 backup DT, when we could have gotten away with getting that role filled by a later pick (or a pick this year). 

 

Same can be said for DE. Drafting a Myles Murphy to be a 3rd rusher so that we can let a 2020 #2 overall pick walk after 2023 is not only poor drafting, but poor roster management. It would be smart roster management to draft replacements for impending free agents if the team was more built out and complete. But they've been implementing that strategy ONLY along the DL at the expense of other positions, and it sucks.

 

Drafting a 5th round DE this year would be the move. Not a 1st round. I hope they prove me wrong.

 

Many experts and local media folks thought we were over-investing in the DL and at some point we'd have to pay all these guys once their rookie contracts expired. I argued you could do that by drafting cheap backups for a few years while extending the studs. But once that strategy of all 4 being studs blew up in our faces (to an extent, NFL is unpredictable and they all could still prove out studs), then it's time to move to a diff. strategy/invest elsewhere. But doubling down on drafting DL every year in R1 and R2 at the expense of other spots is not smart.

 

We can deal with a rookie 2nd round DE next year if we let Sweat or Young walk. Draft a 5th round DE this year so that you have depth/3rd rusher type on the roster so you don't have to fill 2 DE spots next year.

 

/rant

I definitely understand the frustration. But I see Mathis as the NT replacement for Settle and Ion. The real issue I have is how can you spend a 2nd round pick on a guy you project as a NT/rotational DT? It’s just a poor use of a premium pick. And if they actually saw him as the BPA and think he’s a legit starting caliber player, than their evaluation is certainly going against the grain because the explosive numbers don’t show that for him. A DT in the 4/5th round? Absolutely. But things like that, which seemed like a panic move at the time, really makes me question the acumen of the guys making the decisions and their long term plan. It’s the same feeling I had about Jamin when we had a need at ILB. He can still become a good player, but using a first round pick on a non-pass rushing LB that doesn’t show ridiculous instincts? Just questionable value. There is a reason ILBs get paid so much less than OTs by the league. Finding an average LT is so much harder and thus more valuable. Darrisaw was there for us and we chose the lesser valuable position.

If BPA is a DE, I’m all for it. It’s an expensive position and we ask a lot of our DEs. But I don’t think I will be able to stomach if we use 16 on Torrence or Avila because it’s just such a poor use or draft capital. It’s so expensive to get certain positions in FA- that’s who you need to draft, with some exceptions.

OT, CB (this year there is depth at the spot, I’ll concede) pass rusher that’s who you need to target in the first round. 

This is an interesting mock:

https://www.nfl.com/_amp/bucky-brooks-2023-nfl-mock-draft-4-0-patriots-nab-bijan-robinson-ravens-select-a

If it fell that way, I’m not taking Joey Porter, Jr. I would try and trade down and if I can’t probably go Wright.

If Baltimore offered a trade back, would you take it? Who would you be targeting?
 

Just now, Warhead36 said:

Would love to trade down with Minnesota and get a 2024 1st in the process. Could low key be a good pick I think theyre due to regress.

I’d love a 2024 1st, but I could also see Vikings doing really well with no Aaron Rodgers to worry about. And Kirk never gets hurt, so I doubt they bottom out.

4 minutes ago, samy316 said:

 

An interesting team to lookout for in the draft is Minnesota.  They're coming up on the end of Cousins' deal, and they need to plan ahead for the future after Cousins.  If Levis or Stroud fall to that 10-15 range, Minnesota might be tempted to draft either one, and get that future franchise QB.  Minnesota might be a prime trade partner for us, if Levis or Stroud (or both) drop to 16.

This is a great point, and also look at who picks between us and Minnesota at 23 18,19,20- Lions, Bucs, Seahawks. Every one of them could snag a QB. Baltimore at 22 possibility too.

We really need to find a way to get some more 3,4,5 round picks.

I wonder how many first round picks we think there are in this draft. 15? 12?

We know they want to trade down but if you’re looking at the last guy on your board with a first round grade at 16, tough to trade down in that situation.

On the flip side, who is trying to trade up with us?