Commander PK

I guess you think American gun owners will just hand them over? To who? Half of those that would enforce a confiscation both military and police would side with the gun owners if not more. I dare say most would resign or refuse those orders.

Specifically to this point I will use myself as an example. If I sold one of my guns to somebody right now, unless the gun is eventually used in a crime you would never know the sale existed. If it is used in a mass killing and the gun eventually traced back to me, that still didn’t stop the killing. Just makes me partly responsible. Again, our goal is to STOP the killings. We we can pass whatever we want. Enforcing it is something else entirely. If your goal is to make a real impact on these shootings you need enforceable solutions.

So everyone who owns guns and advocates for the second amendment in the United States is now responsible for this killing? When the next person dies that’s my fault? What solution do you propose?

I think when you look at this problem logically you must eventually come to the conclusion that we are largely past a legislative solution.

Call you when I fix it? Likewise. When you write an enforceable bill that will clearly reduce our mass shooting problem give me a buzz. I suspect I will be waiting just as long for your call as you will for mine.

Maybe some, but not me. I’m all for addressing the specific problems we have in specific ways instead of labeling everyone as this or that.

We have 300 million already. How do you make them scarce? We can’t stop illegals and heroin from entering the country, how do we stop them from bringing guns with them as well? Honest questions

Look, we have 300 million guns already in private hands In this country. We could have mass shooting incidents for the next thousand years with all the guns we already have. Unless you plan plan to do something tangible about all the guns we already I don’t see the point in legislating anything new to stop mass shootings. You do not solve this problem that way. Put simply, we do not have a future in this country where his kind of thing does not eventually happen. There is no conceivable and attainable ban of any kind hat will stop mass shootings in 2018 and beyond. We have to work on changing who who we are and what we value.

You really think kids shoot up their schools in this country because guns are widely available and easy to get?

For the sake of argument, not saying I agree, If their plan helps stop mass shootings what does it matter where the money goes? We want to save the kids right? Once you establish our gun problem is here to stay it’s wise to see the alternatives to window dressing legislation. Why does the best solutions to our mass shooting problem have to be the destruction or limitation of the gun lobby and manufacturers in a country that already has 300 million guns in private hands?

The NRA is part of this discussion whether you like it or not. “Now, the National Rifle Association knows that there are millions of qualified active and retired police; active, reserve and retired military; security professionals; certified firefighters and rescue personnel; and an extraordinary corps of patriotic, trained qualified citizens to join with local school officials and police in devising a protection plan for every school. We can deploy them to protect our kids now. We can immediately make America's schools safer — relying on the brave men and women of America's police force.” https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2012/dec/21/nra-full-statement-lapierre-newtown Wayne LaPierre after Sandy Hook in 2012 6 years ago. The NRA had a solution, but it wasn’t the solution you were looking for. The NRA has repeatedly stated they want maximum penalties for those who commit crimes with guns leaving the rights of law-abiding citizens alone.

Actually, the NRA came out after Sandy Hook and offered solutions to help fix this problem, but nobody was interested in what they had to say because it did not involve new legislation to what we already have. Like it or not our society is one that must be made secure by good people with guns. The cat is out of the bag, and it’s not going back in. We have to deal with the situation we have now. Completely agree. Our glorification of gangster culture could stop as well.

I think our culture breeds more of these people than in other civilized countries. In a country of 300 million guns in private hands already, I think we would accomplish more by researching and addressing how these people become mass murderers, while implementing more realistic solutions like increasing security levels at soft targets like schools. Controlling access points.

I think he’s wrong. I think we have more people with a desire to kill others in this country than there are in other civilized countries. Guns don’t pull their own triggers. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/maps-and-graphics/mapped-the-countries-with-the-most-guns/ Switzerland, Norway, and Sweden are all in the top 10 per capita for private gun ownership. Roughly 30 to 50 Guns for every 100 citizens. These country’s are also armed to the teeth and don’t have this problem. Why is that? Are we really going to say that cutting our per capita guns in half at this point would stop mass shootings? We aren’t even in the top 10 for gun related deaths even with all those guns. We do have a mass shooting problem.

I’m fine with the maximum penalty for people who commit crimes with guns. On that we totally agree. Problem is, America believes we have an incarceration problem and massive steps have been taken to keep offenders out of the jails, or parole them after they have done 3 years on a 10 year sentence. Now we are going to head back in the other direction and mass incarcerate again? Personally, I wish people would just behave themselves and obey the laws.

It’s not impossible, but you will get those that buy in and those that don’t. There are plenty of people who would never turn in their own guns for any incentive. I’m one of them. I value mine and my family’s safety and liberty more than money. Theoretically speaking, How would you make me comply? If they come to my house and I say the gun was stolen who’s to say I’m lying? At best you significantly lower the number over a period of years/decades. There are still plenty of guns out here though. To do a mass shooting you only need a couple. We have to address our cultural and social problems that have led us to this place.

and they don’t see it or if they have they refuse to change course. Honestly, after a mass shooting who among you who are gun owners are ready to turn in your guns for the greater good? Who would actually participate in say...a government buy back program? Let’s say a buy back program resulted in 1 million guns being turned in. Still leaves you with 299 million guns. If our goal is to stop mass shootings what has that really accomplished?

According to the Congressional Research Service, there are roughly twice as many guns per capita in the United States as there were in 1968: more than 300 million guns in all. Gun sales have increased in recent years.Jan 5, 2016 https://www.npr.org/2016/01/05/462017461/guns-in-america-by-the-numbers How do you deal with the existing guns for those you would ban? There are already enough guns in this country to last until the end of time. We can’t stop the private sale of anything. The cat is out of the bag. We need to find real solutions. In a country where 300 MILLION guns are already in private hands banning weapons at this point accomplishes absolutely nothing. I do want to stop mass shootings though.

When people who share your views talk like this all it makes people on the other side want to do is double down on their views. If you want to have legit conversations and find meaningful solutions you need to understand that this is a very complex problem that can’t just be legislated away at this point. All I keep hearing is we just need to do something no matter how small. We just need to get our foot in the door...but what you really mean is legislate more gun laws that won’t be followed or obeyed anyhow, and damn near impossible to enforce. When Sacks and Stuff states that he GOP has decided that their NRA funding is more important than a few more dead kids it’s counter productive. Demonizing my side is not going to get us anywhere. You would think that would be obvious by now. I’m an NRA life member and the father of three. I want them safe also, but I also realize this problem is going to be a lot harder to solve than a few additonal window dressing gun laws. Let the insults fly.

Do you realize how crazy you sound? Most people who who are talking about arming teachers are not talking about just handing them a gun and wishing them luck. Personally, I believe encouraging teachers to learn to shoot and apply for concealed carry permits is not a bad idea. Once they meet the criteria set they can carry while In the school. Part of the process of saving lives is going to be recognizing that there is not a practical way to rid America of guns and the threat of gun violence is here to stay.

I think we need to get back to loving and respecting one another as fellow human beings. Socialism isn’t the answer but neither is unchecked greed. To have rational discussion we need to stop calling each other names and sit down at the proverbial table together. We have a great nation, and I love my country, but we have some serious social and cultural problems in America that there are no easy answers to.

Our society has prioritized all the wrong things. We worship money and status. We don’t empathize with other people. Our schools create a rat race competition and social pecking order between people that continues on into adulthood. The weak are beaten down emotionally by the strong. Some can’t or aren’t equipped to keep up. We have lost our moral compass and the basic concept of right and wrong. Do what thou wilt.

If you think trying to remove guns from this equation at this point is the first best solution to this cultural and social problem you are wrong. Why do some people in America want to kill en mass with guns? Why is our society creating these monsters? Why are our inner cities like shooting galleries? What are we doing wrong here? That is the discussion i would like to have, but it leads to inconvenient truths.

Correct. Some people are so focused on their hatred for all things NRA and GOP, that your bit of truth, which is central to the whole problem is totally glossed over. Even suggesting the tool isn’t really at the core of the problem gets them frothing at the mouth.

Holds true for me as well. When the tailgate became overrun with people who have convinced themselves that everyone else who counts in this country thinks exactly like they do, and everyone that doesn't are rednecks, racists, and morons...it was time for me to step back. I got tired of making the same arguments to the same people every time the same logic applied...on a variety of topics.