OVCChairman

found it, here is the screen grabs of the Detroit game

I have not, i was going by screen grabs that another poster went through and put on a handful of pages back...

I will say that a lot of the conversation is predicated on opinion, but there are subjects that can be rebutted based on fact.. like claims that Young is getting beat 1 on 1 the vast majority of the time, and that simply is not true.. because we don't know the playcall, the gap run responsibility, or any number of factors that could be beat by a single blocker.. a lot of this side of the conversation, as one of the posters pointed out with screen grabs in the game vs Detroit, is just making a case contradicting claims that we feel are just incorrect.

And i dont think it's unfair for other fans to disagree with those expectations.. to evaluate a player upon their own opinion...

To be completely honest, no, I did not think I would see more 'explosive plays' because I was one of the posters that want us to harness the expectations pre-draft. I never wanted to compare him to the next LT or Von Miller. You do that and you find yourself in the situation we're in now.... people wanting a player taken in 2020 to put up statistics on the same plane as people who are no longer playing the game. Jonathan Allen was on the radio with the junkies this morning and he basically said that anyone who look at the stats doesn't have a clue what is actually going on. He said "what if Chase wins his matchup every play but there is no push up the middle? The QB can step up and Chase doesn't get a stat" My expectations of Chase Young was a potentially elite talent walking into one of the worst defenses into the league. Add to that the fact that it's a brand new system, zilch for an offseason, and a rookie who has never taken an NFL snap in his life. No preseason, no camps, none of the stuff that any other EDGE guy gets going into their first season. Add to that a player that sustained a core groin injury that it's now being reported will not be right until the offeseason.... at this point it's a pain threshold.. Have you ever tried to be explosive with a groin injury? He's still the highest rated rookie D-lineman in the NFL according to PFF.

IR - Hamstring, expected to return Week 12 which is this week, but the short week makes that basically impossible. Look to him to return to practice next week imho.

to be fair, I read it the exact same way as @PartyPosse does and I responded a few pages back with that sentiment.

yes... yes I do... i was incorrect.

the Burrow fumble. He was mid spin move and changed direction, sprinting to the ball.. he sensed Apke coming and hesitated because he knew Burrow was coming back inside. His instincts are scary.

but he didn't hit the qb or get a TFL...

I agree, I just wish we could scheme up that between the 20s...

I know, I didn't say I wanted it to continue, just that I can see the point. It's not easy to sustain a 12 - 15 play drive over and over and over. The more plays you run, the more chances of a mistake or a pressed stop on 3rd down. It's a rough system to run when you don't have the additional underneath coverage of the LBs, and concerns over the middle with your safeties. It leaves gaps and holes. The THEORY is that you get a pass rush home before the WR can get to the spot... well when the opposing offense can keep 7 guys in to block 4 guys... the QB has all day early in the game to pick you apart. The field then gets smaller in the Redzone, so the windows are tighter, and this 'could' be the justification in the locker room... that "but did they score though" argument. I worry the same way you do. To do that is asking your defense to just hold on tight... can't really get any pressure this way, and we just kind of let the game come to us... not the other way around.

That was my semi-sarcastic answer agreeing with KDawg that the conversation about Young being 'minimized' due to quick releases and the fact that his 'lack of impact' is not an indictment on him directly was extremely shallow and lacking nuance. I actually agree with you. I would love to see what our defense can do in press, even if you want to just press the line and drop into zone. Something to get the WR off their route. Watching our zone get carved up like it's nobodies business is enough to make you want to bang your head against the wall. That said, I can understand the thought process of forcing your opponent to put together long sustained drives... it's not that easy, and when they're able to do it, the defense is gassed. I actually like our Corners. Fuller and Darby are talented enough to stay with a lot of the WRs in the NFL. Cincy has some studs in Boyd and Higgins, and Dallas is stacked at WR so I don't know that I want to put them on islands on Thursday... especially if it opens up the run game forcing your DBs to turn and run in man coverage... not being able to keep their eyes down hill.

what? you mean adjusting a game plan?

lol don't torture yourself, look at it this way... in 2011 Jax took Blaine Gabbert and Tennessee took Jake Locker.... over J.J. Watt, Minnesota took Christian Ponder over Robert Quinn.... Cin got A.J. Green in the first round of that draft, and Dalton in the 2nd. 4 years later Jax took Bortles over Khalil Mack How much different would Jax be right now if they had taken J.J. Watt and Khalil Mack instead of Gabbert and Bortles. It's the most important position in sports, and probably the most difficult to truly assess....

Some of us are always looking at the future draft. We kind of enjoy it. It's not that we've written off a season, but we just like to do it. The 2021 Comprehensive draft thread started literally April 25th... the final day of the 2020 draft.

I guess I just don't want some fans of this team to lose their mind if we don't take a TE til the 3rd or 4th round... or if we opt to look at free agency to add. The position absolutely has room for improvement. I was hoping Baugh would show out, and I'm a little frustrated that we opted to hold onto Sprinkle over Hentges and Rodgers. If we could find our way into the Hunter Henry game I would be happy, because it basically means your draft can go elsewhere. I don't want to IGNORE the position, but the offense can function without an elite TE. There are a lot of 'good' TEs out there that can get the job done that we need done. We need a TE1, but it doesn't have to be Kittle. If Kittle is there, you take him. If he's not there and you can get a much bigger upgrade at another position.. I think we can make it work for now..

OUCH! Least favorite in a long time?! I hear you, but the overall point is that I don't want to put an emphasis on the position to the point that we overspend.... Logan Thomas appears serviceable, and he could very well be a quality no. 2. If we were able to sign Henry, I'd be really excited too. I just don't want us to go out and throw big money, or spend big draft capital unless it's warranted... that the player is worth it. I think there are other positions right now that can be upgraded that will have a much bigger impact on the overall team. With the RBs we have, we can scheme up that middle of the field outlet. Look at what McKissic just did this past weekend... and what he's been doing this season. Of course I want Kelce, Kittle, or a healthy Jordan Reed. That said, there are not many of those to go around. if that guy is available, by all means, get him. If not... don't stress the gap between TE6 and TE 12. That's all i was trying to say. BTW I like Jake Ferguson... just sayin.

Yeah but I need Mack, Watt, Donald, and Bosa to be happy 😎

This is where JDR needs to adjust imho. He knows a hell of a lot more about football than me, but we've recently been playing this odd zone quarters hybrid style defense on the back end which is forcing our 2nd and 3rd levels to be retreating in pass defense. Statistically we've given up the most plays over 50 yards (6), but were top 5 in total yards, while bottom half in run defense.... so I can't say it's not working... and if the offense would play 4 quarters of football, the record would be different... but it's a weird dynamic and a very stark contrast between the first half and the second half.

Thank you for not taking a hard stance and doubling down, or leaving the convo. That happens a lot nowadays. I always respect when someone appreciates the convo and is willing to adjust their stance based on that convo. The D line has struggled, but it's also flashed. JDR has driven me bonkers at times with the scheme, so I'm hoping it's just a continued feeling out process and they will continue to gel over the 2nd half of the season. I expected more, and if it the line doesnt show progress, it's going to pose questions in the offseason... something I had hoped we wouldnt have to think about.

Yes I did, but I don't fault Mclaurin for beating Diggs on a terrible schematic playcall. He still won the matchup and torched the guy responsible for covering him. Same for Young, it's not his fault they left the TE on him, he just has to win the matchup. It's a disruptive play forcing an INT with the other team in our redzone... The tackle in the Rams clip was in pass pro, that is always a first step back and Young engaged and pushed him into Goffs lap so he couldnt step up. The pocket was not there because Young beat his blocker

Jones is attempting to throw this away... Young wins and Jones cant step into the throw, allowing Fuller to make a play Watch the 2nd highlight vs the Rams. Young gets leverage against the LT and pushes him into Goff so he cant step into the throw... it's a duck and easily intercepted by Fuller...

Are we really talking about Young like he's a bust? He made a stupid play. It was a mistake. He also has single handedly forced multiple interceptions this season. Something that does not show up on the stat sheet. Last week we saw a clip where he was literally tripled teamed. He literally held AP by 1 arm yesterday as AP was pushing through a pile. He had a bad game yesterday. A play that stood out to me was he got caught trying to pass rush to the inside and it opened a hole on the outside. Not sure if the LB was supposed to be in the gap, but it happens. I don't think we're anywhere near a point we can say he wasn't worth the no. 2 overall pick.....