Ghost of Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 I think both the article's critics and its suporters are wrong. Hip hop, the POPULAR kind(who cares about the rather minimal influence that an underground act has?) IS infected by this corruption and culture of violence. For every Roots, I can give you 3 Beanie Sigel's(though he did beat his attempted murder case) or 3 50 Cents or 5 C-Murders(who really is a murderer) or 3 Big Tymers. At least when Geto Boys made music a good share of the songs were warnings and cries to Jesus for help(Bushwick and Scarface always peppered their music with religious themes) Now I don't think every rapper with violent or dark lyrics is equal, nor am I unable to draw distinction between glorification and description/cautionary tale. Anyone here remember Black Korea by Ice Cube? That IS the equivalent of Neo Nazi music. Now, I loved Cube and he made some great music, but a lot of what he used to say was indefensible. Sure, it expressed some legitimate points and anger, but it also expressed a lot of racism. Now compare how famous a thug like 50 Cent is compared to Talib Kweli. Another aspect that isn't commented on, is that it's not just the music--it's who GOES INTO THE MUSIC. There's a good chance, sadly, if one goes by the numbers, there's a good chance the music form is going to be infiltrated by some criminal types. ANd portis, ENOUGH with your stupid misdirections on the NBA. I've had enough of you derailing threads with that nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dahurt002 Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 All inner city crimes are influenced by Hip-Hop you didn't know? If there was no Hip-Hop in the world the inner cities would be safe. Remember how before Hip-Hop there were Ghettos, and murders and lots of crime, What Music influenced that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by Clutch03 That is probably the best comment you've made all thread. I totally agree with it. So that brings me to my point ... how is HipHop responsible if both black and white people on occasion act like dumbasses? So everytime somebody does something stupid they must have been listening to a Dre CD moments before? I listened to Ice-T when I was a kid. I do not know if he was hip hop or not. But I do know he was a man who was in big trouble earlier in his life. He turned his life around and became an influential rap artist. I do not know that his messages would cause a kid to grow up wanting to go outside and pop someone. Give me a man who is like Ice-T and you will get absolutely no argument from me. HOWEVER!!! Many rap artists today represent this lifestyle that makes me really,really sick. I do not know how to articulate my anger on this issue. Mainly because it is not an issue for me specifically. But I know children do listen to this hodgepodge and grow up using these "lessons" as a model for life. This is wrong,wrong,wrong. And that is why I am even interested in posting on this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by dahurt002 Great point, In Hockey players are allowed to fight, Guess ain't nothing Negative about that, but let a rapper say what he has seen in the inner city(murder, crime, etc.) and all Hell brakes loose. what's HOCKEY? :whoknows: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by dahurt002 All inner city crimes are influenced by Hip-Hop you didn't know? If there was no Hip-Hop in the world the inner cities would be safe. Remember how before Hip-Hop there were Ghettos, and murders and lots of crime, What Music influenced that? Actually, social policy and cultural factors impact crime and other behavior as well. Who said hip hop was the cause of all ills rather than a reflection of a sickness in some communities or the pathological need to celebrate criminals and those that PREY on the black community and hold it back rather than achieving. As for hockey, there is a double standard when you compare hockey and the NBA, but bringing it up for a comparison to a major cultural phenomenon like hip hop is ridiculous. First of all, hockey is a sport. Why not bring up boxing too? I know WHY you brought up hockey. But the thing is, hockey(or boxing) penetrate and reflect far less than hip hop or most other forms of music. I've said for years that RnB abandoned talk of love for sex as it melded with hip hop. So it ain't just hip hop. THough I think one can argue that it reflects as much as But if a white guy came up in a racist neighborhood and made music that seemingly glorified lynching blacks, do you think anyone here would be supporting or defending it? OF course not. Again, we're not talking about the occasional Geto Boys who actually DID preach going another way and accepting God as part of their music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin ANd portis, ENOUGH with your stupid misdirections on the NBA. I've had enough of you derailing threads with that nonsense. I have on more than an occasion described my anger regarding the NBA and how that league has ruined itself. If you think this is stupid and that I am misdirecting and derailing threads then I will not further this conversation along here. Mainly because I respect you a great deal. But it is not nonsense to indicate that players of character like Jordan, Johnson, Bird, Russell, Drexler, Thomas, and many many other who made the NBA the class of professional sports are all but non existent today. What has replaced them are individuals who not only learned from this hip hop culture but have decided in their adult life to represent this corrupt culture to the next generation of B-ball players. The NBA does have shining examples of quality people. But for every one you can name that is a good example like a Ray Allen, I can give you many that are an embarassement to the league. As far as the poster who said the NBA is not a place for role models, I would suggest to you look down and see what the kids are wearing on their feet today. Seems like to me that b-ball players are OK with role modeling whe nit lines their pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clutch03 Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by portisizzle Many rap artists today represent this lifestyle that makes me really,really sick. I do not know how to articulate my anger on this issue. Mainly because it is not an issue for me specifically. But I know children do listen to this hodgepodge and grow up using these "lessons" as a model for life. This is wrong,wrong,wrong. And that is why I am even interested in posting on this topic. Now this I understand portisizzle ... you are now making since to me. I don't believe that all HipHop should be listened to by children however they grow up on it. The problem is that TV, Radio, and/or the NBA should not raise our children. I listened to HipHop my whole life and I've done any type of criminal activities because my PARENTS raised me ... they didn't let the influences of entertainment to do that. Of course if you let your kids listen to MTV all day and don't read them a book from time to time they will learn how to be a man or woman from what they see. You can't blame Hiphop for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dahurt002 Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by portisizzle I listened to Ice-T when I was a kid. I do not know if he was hip hop or not. But I do know he was a man who was in big trouble earlier in his life. He turned his life around and became an influential rap artist. I do not know that his messages would cause a kid to grow up wanting to go outside and pop someone. Give me a man who is like Ice-T and you will get absolutely no argument from me. HOWEVER!!! Many rap artists today represent this lifestyle that makes me really,really sick. I do not know how to articulate my anger on this issue. Mainly because it is not an issue for me specifically. But I know children do listen to this hodgepodge and grow up using these "lessons" as a model for life. This is wrong,wrong,wrong. And that is why I am even interested in posting on this topic. O.k, first I understand what you are trying to say, but because I think you don't listen to Hip-Hop a lot you picked the wrong example. I not so sure Ice-T has completey turned his life around because he still considers himself a PIMP, I mean he was one of the First Gangsta Rappers EVER, then later in his career he made a rock song called "F" the Cops so I think that was a bad choice, but your point was made. You mean someone like NAS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 I do have one question: Would someone here let their 10 year old girl listen to some of the hip hop that's out there? I wouldn't. I could let them listen to Boyz II Men, even Jimi Hendrix(maybe not Hey Joe lol) Peter Gabriel, etc. And if you wouldn't expose them to that, why not? I assume it's because we think that VARIOUS factors CAN negatively or positively influence children(and I'm including young teens in this) If we didn't, we'd let them do whatever they wanted or merely control the input of the negative but say, "hey, no prob, go listen to that White Power music!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dahurt002 Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by portisizzle I have on more than an occasion described my anger regarding the NBA and how that league has ruined itself. If you think this is stupid and that I am misdirecting and derailing threads then I will not further this conversation along here. Mainly because I respect you a great deal. But it is not nonsense to indicate that players of character like Jordan, Johnson, Bird, Russell, Drexler, Thomas, and many many other who made the NBA the class of professional sports are all but non existent today. What has replaced them are individuals who not only learned from this hip hop culture but have decided in their adult life to represent this corrupt culture to the next generation of B-ball players. The NBA does have shining examples of quality people. But for every one you can name that is a good example like a Ray Allen, I can give you many that are an embarassement to the league. As far as the poster who said the NBA is not a place for role models, I would suggest to you look down and see what the kids are wearing on their feet today. Seems like to me that b-ball players are OK with role modeling whe nit lines their pockets. Like Jason Kid, Vince Carter, Tim Duncan, Ben Wallace, Antwan Jamison, Tracy McGrady "represent this corrupt culture to the next generation of B-ball players." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by dahurt002 O.k, first I understand what you are trying to say, but because I think you don't listen to Hip-Hop a lot you picked the wrong example. I not so sure Ice-T has completey turned his life around because he still considers himself a PIMP, I mean he was one of the First Gangsta Rappers EVER, then later in his career he made a rock song called "F" the Cops so I think that was a bad choice, but your point was made. You mean someone like NAS. I can not speak to Ice-T of today. That CD I listened to was from the 1980's. Was his song about F the Cops because they racially profile and harass innocent blacks? My guess is that would be the point of his rhyme. He has a point. Who is NAS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doozinbrah Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by dahurt002 I not so sure Ice-T has completey turned his life around because he still considers himself a PIMP, I mean he was one of the First Gangsta Rappers EVER, then later in his career he made a rock song called "F" the Cops It was called "Cop Killer" and the band that Ice T was a part of was Body Count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by dahurt002 Like Jason Kid, Vince Carter, Tim Duncan, Ben Wallace, Antwan Jamison, Tracy McGrady "represent this corrupt culture to the next generation of B-ball players." Pull "T-Mac" off that list and you have a good group of professionals. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dahurt002 Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by dahurt002 Like Jason Kid, Vince Carter, Tim Duncan, Ben Wallace, Antwan Jamison, Tracy McGrady "represent this corrupt culture to the next generation of B-ball players." My favorite "OLD SCHOOL THUG" was Barkley, then Vernon Maxwell I hope these guys didn't influence the Next Generation, say Allen Iverson or Ron Artest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Island Boy Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by portisizzle Pull "T-Mac" off that list and you have a good group of professionals. IMO ok give your reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Island Boy Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by portisizzle Pull "T-Mac" off that list and you have a good group of professionals. IMO ok give your reasons for saying that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 see, this is what people talk about. You make up these arbitrary standards and decide to pull off T-Mac(why not pull of Vince if your criticism is what I think it is) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dahurt002 Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by dahurt002 Like Jason Kid, Vince Carter, Tim Duncan, Ben Wallace, Antwan Jamison, Tracy McGrady "represent this corrupt culture to the next generation of B-ball players." My favorite "OLD SCHOOL THUG" was Barkley, then Vernon Maxwell I hope these guys didn't influence the Next Generation, say Allen Iverson or Ron Artest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dahurt002 Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by dahurt002 Like Jason Kid, Vince Carter, Tim Duncan, Ben Wallace, Antwan Jamison, Tracy McGrady "represent this corrupt culture to the next generation of B-ball players." My favorite "OLD SCHOOL THUG" was Barkley, then Vernon Maxwell I hope these guys didn't influence the Next Generation, say Allen Iverson or Ron Artest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clutch03 Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by portisizzle But it is not nonsense to indicate that players of character like Jordan, Johnson, Bird, Russell, Drexler, Thomas, and many many other who made the NBA the class of professional sports are all but non existent today. What has replaced them are individuals who not only learned from this hip hop culture but have decided in their adult life to represent this corrupt culture to the next generation of B-ball players. The NBA does have shining examples of quality people. But for every one you can name that is a good example like a Ray Allen, I can give you many that are an embarassement to the league. As far as the poster who said the NBA is not a place for role models, I would suggest to you look down and see what the kids are wearing on their feet today. Seems like to me that b-ball players are OK with role modeling whe nit lines their pockets. When did the NBA go straight to Hell? I must have missed that season. I can understand the arguement that the NBA does not play enough team ball. But when did it get so corrupt with uncharacter type players? Who are you speaking of? Are you talking about the character players back in the day like Bill Lambier (who fought almost every game ... even Isaih Thomas), Wilt Chamberlain (who slept with over 2,000 woman), or the guy (whoever he was) that punched Rudy T in the face a broke his nose. Did HipHop do that too? Damn this Hiphop!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by Island Boy ok give your reasons. For starters his name is not T-Mac. It is Tracy McGrady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by Clutch03 When did the NBA go straight to Hell? I must have missed that season. I can understand the arguement that the NBA does not play enough team ball. But when did it get so corrupt with uncharacter type players? Who are you speaking of? Are you talking about the character players back in the day like Bill Lambier (who fought almost every game ... even Isaih Thomas), Wilt Chamberlain (who slept with over 2,000 woman), or the guy (whoever he was) that punched Rudy T in the face a broke his nose. Did HipHop do that too? Damn this Hiphop!!!! You will have to ask Ghost permission before I can go into he NBA in further detail. I do not want to derail this argument..... Jsut do a search with my name and NBA. You will get my full discourse on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clutch03 Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by portisizzle For starters his name is not T-Mac. It is Tracy McGrady. :laugh: he should be pulled off the list because he has a nickname? :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 portis, your double standards and lack of actual background knowledge are what should prevent you from further commentary on the NBA. Unfortunately, you never feel so restrained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin portis, your double standards and lack of actual background knowledge are what should prevent you from further commentary on the NBA. Unfortunately, you never feel so restrained. Read above. I just did...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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