Redskinjoe Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Basically what whe have here as fans is an inflated opinion of the talent level this team actually had on offense. Case in point. I thought myself that by the patches and repairs that were made on defense this year we'd be off and running. I know now that Gibbs knew he'd be struggling the entire year. 1st: Virtually every offseason aquisition was made on defense with the exception of Portis. Gibbs knew he'd need defense first. That is why he's a head coach. 2nd: Gibb's knew he'd need ball control to win. Bring in Brunnel. You don't get ball control with a gunslinger like Ramsey. Patrick in my opinion is the equivalent of a young Brett Favre. Even today Favre will cough the ball up. Our gameplan has not changed since game one versus Tampa. Look how many times it changed over Gibbs first tenure. Riggins, Calvin Bryant, Joe Washington, Mark Rypien, Jay Schroeder, Doug Williams, Joe Theisman, Riggs, Byner... yada yada yada. We always had hogs and the hogs had one consitancy. 3rd: WE WERE STRONG UP THE MIDDLE AND ON THE LINE! Who is our center? Cory Raymer? He gets blown off the ball. He gets holding calls. We have a 350lb LG in Dockery and we can't run behind him. Samuels is out on a corner by himself. Give him TE help it doesn't matter. Give Chris a RB to chip off Chris's man. It doesn't help. Why? Because Raymer and Dockey. Then you have Randy Thomas. At least we had that side of the line locked. Now he's in the same position as Samuels. He has Raymer on his left and Ray Brown (God rest his soul.) on his right. Now Randy has to compensate for others. Plug Jansen back in at RT and we are pounding the right side and rolling right on play action. Put Jansen back in and put the TE & RB in support of the left side of our line and we are passing the ball down field with an upright QB! 4th: Rod Gardner must go. He can catch a ball when open and that's about it. Put a body on him or ask him to lay his body on the line for the ball and he'll either pull up or drop it. Coles? He needs to get that toe fixed. Bottom line is he has not been the same player we signed since it started acting up. Ever since his toe became an issue around the time of the Patriots game last year he's been average. Darknarian (LOL) is the only player we have that has a physical advantage over todays DB's and he's not on the field? So why? God only knows. My only guess is Gibbs knows that he has money invested in Gardner and now has the evidence to let him go. Just like he had with Trotter, Armistead, Bailey and all the other defensive talent we had over the past few years. Offense has been our problem since Gibbs left with the exception of Norv Turner. I'm sticking with Gibbs. I think you'd see the two young O-Lineman in there if Gibbs wasn't worried about our QB's getting killed. I think you'd see Darnerian in there and will more now that Pat's playing. I think Betts was put in against the Eagles simply because he has worked with Ramsey more than Portis has. Why? PORTIS HAD 37 yards on 17 CARRIES! AGAINST A DEF. THAT IS RANKED AT THE BOTTOM IN RUN DEFENSE! Some of it is Portis's fault and not Gibbs. Bottom line is people. We just don't have decent talent on the offensive side of this football field. We have role players and stars on the defense. Who are the offensive role players? Derrick Dockery? Cory Raymer? (Count how many penalties and bad plays are our center's fault and you'll see what I'm saying. Tampa's only TD was him stepping on MB's foot!) Ray Brown? Rod Gardner? You watch. Next year we will draft a center within the first three rounds. We will also get a top flight baller at WR. You'll see some major reworking of the O-LINE. We'll draft a stud DE for sure but it won't do us a damn bit of good until we control the line of scrimmage on offense. I don't care WHO the coach is. Maybe Spurrier wasn't so bad after all. Maybe he was just spoiled and gave up. Food for thought. Gibbs we'll fix it. I believe he's a man of his word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roachman Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 I'm sorry but if you think this team doesn't have the offensive talent to win you are crazy. We have some issues but we have average to above average talent. Good coaches get the best out of the talent they have and Gibbs is not getting the best out of this team. The Patriots don't have the best talent but the coach has them disciplined and they believe in what they are doing. The Redskin players have lost faith in Gibbs but everyone gives him a free ride based on his reputation. If a Skins player complained, they would be run out of town by the blind fans and organization that hold on to past memories. I want to win now and Gibbs is not the answer. Tough to be a skins fan at this point. This is the lowest I've been as a fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre The Giant Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Superb post my man. Best I've seen on here in a a while. To add to that, I also think we need to stop trading draft picks for players. Can you imagine how crummy we'd all be feeling now if we had traded our #1 for Ogunleye? We need as many draft picks as we can get our hands on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre The Giant Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 By the way, I was agreeing with RedskinJoe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSteve Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 I always said Spurrier needed one more year..but he caved to the pressure and bailed. Now we have Gibbs who is better. Basically I agree with almost everything you say, you can't be a great football team with inconsistent play and an offensive line that cannot control the trenches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCRoughrider Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 In other words, no other staff would be any better with this personnel? Do you honestly believe that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 equating the results of the trade for Brunell with establishing a ball control offense is like saying that Ambrose Burnside just had an off-day at Fredericksburg :laugh: :laugh: the plan my friend was for Mark Brunell to come in here, execute this offense and help the Redskins to a playoff berth in 2004 I don't see any evidence from what we saw in the offseason from Gibbs, Williams or anyone else that the club was doing anything other than trying to put itself in position to be a contender for a playoff spot. Teams that are in genuine rebuilding mode don't trade draft choices for a 34 year old quarterback with a history of injury problems. That's just a fact. You didn't see Andy Reid do that in 1999 when he came to the Eagles. You didn't see Mike Holmgren do that in 1992 when he came to the Packers. What you saw were those staffs and front offices identify and then go out and acquire young quarterbacks to develop and win with down the road The fact we had a former #1 pick on the roster who had thrown 14 touchdowns and only 9 interceptions in 2003 and yet the staff still wasn't ready to take time and fully develop him, tells the tale........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OkieSkin Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 With out a doubt the number thing to do in the offseason is shoring up this horrible freakin O-line, it will help having Jansen back but we must have the worst center and gaurds in the league except for Thomas. I still can't believe all the undisipline crap this line does, is it coaching or the players, probably both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Williams Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Originally posted by roachman I want to win now and Gibbs is not the answer. [/b] :laugh:....buddy you are rooting for the wrong team......... snyder really screwed you over huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bat~man Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 actually i dont think offense has been our problem since gibbs left , look at our games last year and HOW MANY we lost by 7 points , lost a lot by 1-3 points , it was our defense that stunk it up ..... i think we have the receivers , the back and the QB to work this out , but the o-line sux so bad its not funny , we NEED a better o-line so gibbs doesnt feel like hes got to put 1,000 people on theline to protect ramsey and only send 2 receivers out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskinjoe Posted November 22, 2004 Author Share Posted November 22, 2004 Originally posted by roachman I'm sorry but if you think this team doesn't have the offensive talent to win you are crazy. We have some issues but we have average to above average talent. Good coaches get the best out of the talent they have and Gibbs is not getting the best out of this team. The Patriots don't have the best talent but the coach has them disciplined and they believe in what they are doing. The Redskin players have lost faith in Gibbs but everyone gives him a free ride based on his reputation. If a Skins player complained, they would be run out of town by the blind fans and organization that hold on to past memories. I want to win now and Gibbs is not the answer. Tough to be a skins fan at this point. This is the lowest I've been as a fan. Everyone sells the Patriots as a team of over achievers. Hogwash. They are a team of unspoiled blue collar guys just like our beloved hogs were. They suit up and strap it on to get the job done. Coaching isn't everything. If you believe that then you probably think Gibbs could get results from my Grandma on the O-Line. Oh! Yea my G-Ma was born with out a spine but he could "coach her up and play pitch and catch with her." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskinjoe Posted November 22, 2004 Author Share Posted November 22, 2004 Originally posted by ~kriztalmeth~ actually i dont think offense has been our problem since gibbs left , look at our games last year and HOW MANY we lost by 7 points , lost a lot by 1-3 points , it was our defense that stunk it up ..... i think we have the receivers , the back and the QB to work this out , but the o-line sux so bad its not funny , we NEED a better o-line so gibbs doesnt feel like hes got to put 1,000 people on theline to protect ramsey and only send 2 receivers out Oh really? Offense hasn't been the problem? Count how many clock consuming drives we've had since Norv Turner left. We started getting them during Marty then we started winning when the crying stopped. Gibbs has sent five receivers out when it was prudent to do so in the past. He was the O-Coordinater with San Diego during Dan Fouts tenure. Muncie, Winslow.... yada yada yada. He assumed he could do the same when he first came here. We lost our first five games and he turned it around. Gibbs knows what he has and doesn't have on his side of the ball. Quit your crying, stock your Madden team on the PS2, and I'll see you on the bandwagon next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskinjoe Posted November 22, 2004 Author Share Posted November 22, 2004 Originally posted by OkieSkin With out a doubt the number thing to do in the offseason is shoring up this horrible freakin O-line, it will help having Jansen back but we must have the worst center and gaurds in the league except for Thomas. I still can't believe all the undisipline crap this line does, is it coaching or the players, probably both. Nope. It's the players. If you had a kid that contsantly set his feet on fire and you couldn't stop him from doing it what would you do? By his some wet shoes? Our line couldn't block my sister consistantly. Gibbs has changed running styles. Gibbs has changed QB's. Gibbs has turned to the basic WR screen play as our bread and butter. You think this man likes to lose? Three Super Bowls? Come on brother, keep the faith man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 I have to agree with you. Maybe the horrible O line only allows us to only send out 2-3 WR on passing downs. Even when Ramsey did have an open guy down field he overthrew it. Nothing is clicking except the defense which evaporated at the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskinjoe Posted November 22, 2004 Author Share Posted November 22, 2004 Originally posted by Andre The Giant Superb post my man. Best I've seen on here in a a while. To add to that, I also think we need to stop trading draft picks for players. Can you imagine how crummy we'd all be feeling now if we had traded our #1 for Ogunleye? We need as many draft picks as we can get our hands on. Andre. You ARE THE MAN. Our team is a reflection of society. Quick fixes and no sacrifice for the greater good. Look at the NBA. Yea.... I prayed we wouldn't pull the trigger for Ogie. I bet you my favorite appendage (not that you want it mind you) that Gibbs held Snyder back from doing it. That's our biggest problem. Low round draft picks. We never have anyone come from nowhere anymore. Can you say Sterling Plamer? Name all the busts. We have the worst low round draft of all teams since Beathard left. We are the Bungles revisted. Arizona East. I can't wait until next year... I dunno where he'll come from. It'll be another pick like Cooley or someone like Ryan Clark on our defense this year. I just dream man.... and with their first pick in the second round.... the Washington Redskins select.... the center from....! That's when you'll see this team turn around. That and when you see Mockery Dockery on the waiver wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 we don't have a second round pick this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 1) defenses are stacking the line against the run. Why? Cuz they know we have no downfield passing threat. Why? - QBs aren't passing downfield accurately. when oipportunities are there (i.e., when receivers do manage some opening) we do not execute....everyone in th eleague can see the passing game is totally out of synch - Gibbs is going with a short almost West Coast passing game to compensate - receivers are dropping too many balls = unreliable/cannot execute - can't tell if Joe's scheme is not equal to more current defensive strategies. if you read between the lines on Comcast's post-game yesterday...this was hinted at - O-line needs a shop cleaning during the off-season. I know longer care who gets the axe. there are no excuses for 3-4 continuous seasons of illegal procedure calls; running out the clock (QB error); out of position driven time outs; poor blocking at the point of attack....and on....maybe...just maybe...these guys are overrated. maybe the FO did a poor job all along of finding unheralded talent that can come in and get the job done - why did Betts look so much better than Portis yesterday against the same defense? are the blocking schemes still unsuited to Portis' running style? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkNC Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Great post RedskinJoe. I know this is a very painful time in Redskin land. But bailing on Gibbs wouls serve nothing. The talent on the O line sucks. It is a huge factor in this teams failings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FBChick Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Originally posted by fansince62 why did Betts look so much better than Portis yesterday against the same defense? are the blocking schemes still unsuited to Portis' running style? Because the weak point in the Eagles run defense was up the middle, where Portis has been weak running all season. We spent much of the first drive trying to get Portis to the outside with no luck, gibbs put Betts in to give Portis a blow and low and behold, Betts managed 4 positive yardage runs up the middle to put us into scoring range. Unfortunately, the Eagles adjusted well with Trotter in the middle and managed to close that gap down, and even when it was working, Betts isn't fast enough to get over 10 yards on any carry up the middle. He was good for shorting the field some and pulling in the defense, which made the hitches and screens so effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC4 Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Redskinjoe has a good point about buliding the defense 1st I remember something I heard years ago about the CFL. If you know the rules and how they differ from American football, the Canadian game is geared more to lots of offense The thing I heard was that the Canadians hated it when an American would become the head coach of a CFL team, because the very 1st thing they would ask was, "How's the defense?" You build a strong defense 1st, then you work on the offense, unless your in the CFL that is :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskinjoe Posted November 22, 2004 Author Share Posted November 22, 2004 Originally posted by KirkNC Great post RedskinJoe. I know this is a very painful time in Redskin land. But bailing on Gibbs wouls serve nothing. The talent on the O line sucks. It is a huge factor in this teams failings. KirkNC You're right about that. Gibbs didn't do too well at NASCAR his first go around either. He'll adjust as soon as he has football players along the O-Line. Hail Redskins! Hail Gibbs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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