Kilmer17 Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 How is the state of Israel a crime? If so, isnt every nation a crime? Isn't Texas a crime? What about the kingdom of Saud? Opponents love to say that Israel doesnt have the right to exist, but the fact that they DO exist is all the "right" they need.<br /><br />What options exist for peace that do not involve Israel giving up land or sovreignty? The recent Saudi plan is full of holes and is nothing more than a way to get both sides to the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kefka Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 Kilmer17, its a crime b/c they stole the land of people living in Palestine. So your saying its o.k. for me to come over to your house and take it over. I don't think so. Anyone if anyone who has sound moral judgement knows that this is a crime.<br /><br />"If so, isnt every nation a crime? Isn't Texas a crime? "<br />Decendants of Native Americans tend to think so. But we're talking about people today in this century who are still alive, whos homes and lives were destroyed, just to appease the Jewish people.<br /><br />"What options exist for peace that do not involve Israel giving up land or sovreignty? The recent Saudi plan is full of holes and is nothing more than a way to get both sides to the table. "<br /><br />Well for one thing the US can stop pumping Israel w/ weapons and money.<br /> <br /> <small>[ February 28, 2002, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: Kefka ]</small> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 Well, according to the Jews, it WAS their land first.<br /><br />More importantly it's THEIR land now. On a personal level, no you cant take my home, but on a nationality level, that's how EVERY country came into existense.<br /><br />And the US is always going to support Israel, so any discussion on the matter needs to be done with that knowledge accepted and set in stone. It will not change. So are there any options?<br /> <br /> <small>[ February 28, 2002, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: Kilmer17 ]</small> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kefka Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 So there are no options but to fight.<br /><br />"Well, according to the Jews, it WAS their land first."<br />I'm talking about the present not past. Though even if you read the history the people who were with Moses( one of the messangers of Islam), bani-israel, are considered by us to be Muslims b/c there is and has only been one religion sent by God. Other religions are by our faith to be distorted or corrupted. But Islam is the final and completed form. But back to the present ...the people who lost their homes and diginity are still alive. Any they had their homes stolen from them plain and simple. Don't justify what they did or rather what the US helped to do.<br /><br />If you knew anything about the Judaism you would know that they aren't aloud to have a state until their supposed Messiah comes down which won't happen until who some events occur. So it is against orthodox Judaism to even have a state in Israel. But I won't go into detail. It is the secular zioniosts who are mostly in control. And they could care less for religion or humanity.<br /> <br /> <small>[ February 28, 2002, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: Kefka ]</small> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 Unfortunately, I think that's correct.<br /><br />I havent heard a single plan that will be acceptable to both sides.<br /><br />That leaves the option of war. Which Israel will win. The Palestinians will be forced from the country of Israel.<br /><br />I dont necessarily agree with it, I just dont see any other option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kefka Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 Unfortunately its not what, "you thinks correct", but what is the truth and just.<br /><br />I gotta go eat something... bbl.<br /> <br /> <small>[ February 28, 2002, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: Kefka ]</small> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 Right or just? What does that mean?<br /><br />Is it "right" that Palestinians strap bombs to their chests and stroll into Discos and pizza parlors? Is it "Just" that muslim extremists rammed airplanes into the WTC?<br /><br />Just what exactly do you mean by that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 Right or just? What does that mean?<br /><br />Is it "right" that Palestinians strap bombs to their chests and stroll into Discos and pizza parlors? Is it "Just" that muslim extremists rammed airplanes into the WTC?<br /><br />Just what exactly do you mean by that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kefka Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 I wouldn't know, but who are you to question when you have justified the death of the Palestinians.<br /><br />Hell if people were dancing over my land, where my house use to be, partying; I wouldn't smile about it either. But the fact of the matter remains the state of Israel is a crime in itself. Nothing you say will prove otherwise.<br /><br />And when you agree there is no other alternative than to fight, why do you cry over Palestinians who are giving up their lives (more than I and anyone else could ever do) to liberate their land. But when the Israeli army destroys homes, kills young kids, no body gives a damn. Two faced yeah.<br /> <br /> <small>[ February 28, 2002, 03:49 PM: Message edited by: Kefka ]</small> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 I did not justify the death of anybody. I simply pointed out the end game scenario. I do advocate the Palestinians leaving Israel altogether. That's different than killing them. But I am also realistic, and realize they wont leave (not should or shouldn't but wont) which leads us right back to the conflict which, if it came to a real war, Israel will ultimately win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kefka Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 And why would Israel win? From a materialistic point of view, b/c of US state support. Which is why the Muslims don't agree rather support your foreign policies. The root of the problem. Ok I gotta go... this is going to go back and forth.<br /> <br /> <small>[ February 28, 2002, 03:52 PM: Message edited by: Kefka ]</small> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 You are correct, they will win because they will have US Support. The Muslims dont like us already, why should we try to win their affection again. We tried by freeing Kuwait, intervening in Somalia, in Bosnia, in Afghanastan. But even still we are viewed as the evil ones. Eff em. The problem is that the Govt teaches young Muslims to hate America. <br /><br />These "countries" are not democracies, they persecute those who are non-muslims, and are totalitarian. They dont deserve anything from US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kefka Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> You are correct, they will win because they will have US Support. The Muslims dont like us already, why should we try to win their affection again. We tried by freeing Kuwait, intervening in Somalia, in Bosnia, in Afghanastan. But even still we are viewed as the evil ones. Eff em. The problem is that the Govt teaches young Muslims to hate America. <br /><br />These "countries" are not democracies, they persecute those who are non-muslims, and are totalitarian. They dont deserve anything from US. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I didn't say they will win, hehe. I said from a materialistic point of view they would win. Two different things. (bring it on)<br /><br />"The Muslims dont like us already..." <br />Cause and Effect you should look it up sometime. Maybe cause the US and its European buddies have been screwing over the Muslims ever since WWI/WWII.<br /><br />"why should we try to win their affection again..."<br />Who wants the US affection, the Muslims want you to keep your nose out of the Muslim's affairs.<br /><br />"We tried by freeing Kuwait, intervening in Somalia, in Bosnia, in Afghanastan."<br />No thanks, freeing Kuwait? How did that ordeal start in the first place? Sadaam you say? Where did he come from ? ooooooh maybe cause again the US and its European buddies screwed over the Muslims. Like I said above.<br /><br />"But even still we are viewed as the evil ones."<br />I wonder why.<br /><br />"Eff em."<br />May God bless you.<br /><br />"The problem is that the Govt teaches young Muslims to hate America."<br />Nah your puppet governments don't do that, the US itself does that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 Really? You see the US allows freedom of religion. Does ANY Muslim country allow that? <br /><br />Do any US schools teach it's students to hate Muslims?<br /><br />Like most nations of poverty and hatred, these Muslim Govts blame everyone but themselves.<br /><br />Saddam is in power? Blame America. Our religion advocates terrorism? Blame America. Our people are poor,ignorant and full of hate? Blame America.<br /><br />Do us a favor, take the Koran and shove it down your effin throat. It's a religion of hatred and war, and those who follow it are terrorists at heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 This is a wonderful thread. I may have to kill Blade or Die Hard for playing nanny and moving it over here <img border="0" title="" alt="[smile]" src="smile.gif" /> . I may participate in increasing levels in this thread as time permits, but, it must be said, Kefka, you are one interesting lad.<br /><br />When England -- not the U.S. -- carved out Jewish territory in the "Holy Lands" the Arab world responded with something less than pleasure. Since that time the state of Israel has come under attack time and again and time and again Israel has kicked Muslim and Arab *** and expanded borders for defensive reasons.<br /><br />It really isn't the fault of Israel, any more than it is the fault of pioneer Americans, that they are better armed and smarter than the people who were on the land and established for years before the arrival of the newcomers. And like in America where we have won war against the natives, Israel has done the same in the Middle East. Your whining nonsense isn't going to make it different. The Arabs should have fought harder if they didn't want Israel there. But, you now have to understand we are 50 some years into that country's existence. Israel IS REAL and it is time "your brothers" understood that.<br /><br />For 30 years the Israeli government has been willing to talk of a peaceful resolution to the areas combat. And for 30 years rabid, insane, violent Muslim and Arab people have denied that the Jewish state has any right to exist. Israel continues to fight back, rightly, against attacks against it by these insane, rabid, violent Muslim and Arab brothers of yours.<br /><br />And, nothing the American government has done deserves the hatred and response of this ignorant society that it has inspired. America is not an invading society. America is not Imperial England, though it has the power to be. The ruling government of these "Muslim" lands have always invited the Americans in to help them. The Palestinians take $500 million in aid from us every year. More to other countries in the region.<br /><br />We are the greatest benefactors to most of the backward, confused, ignorant and repressed countries occupied by your violent Muslim brotherhood. And, your brothers are going to have to fight a lot harder if they expect things to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kefka Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Really? You see the US allows freedom of religion. Does ANY Muslim country allow that? <br /><br />Do any US schools teach it's students to hate Muslims?<br /><br />Like most nations of poverty and hatred, these Muslim Govts blame everyone but themselves.<br /><br />Saddam is in power? Blame America. Our religion advocates terrorism? Blame America. Our people are poor,ignorant and full of hate? Blame America.<br /><br />Do us a favor, take the Koran and shove it down your effin throat. It's a religion of hatred and war, and those who follow it are terrorists at heart </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">"Really? You see the US allows freedom of religion. Does ANY Muslim country allow that?"<br />There aren't any "Muslim ruled" countries. Your question is invalid.<br /><br />"Do any US schools teach it's students to hate Muslims?"<br />No you don't teach students to hate Muslims that would be too obvious. You leave your students ignorant to become like you.<br /><br />"Like most nations of poverty and hatred, these Muslim Govts blame everyone but themselves."<br />There exists not one (Maybe Iran) "Muslim Government" they are all the puppets of the US and its European buddies.<br /><br />"Saddam is in power? Blame America. Our religion advocates terrorism? Blame America. Our people are poor,ignorant and full of hate? Blame America."<br />And I will rightfully do so when the US is one of those who are responsible.<br /><br />"Do us a favor, take the Koran and shove it down your effin throat. It's a religion of hatred and war, and those who follow it are terrorists at heart"<br /><br />Its Qur'an. Its hardly a religion of hatred and war. Its a religion of justice and truth, wether you like it or not. We don't turn the other cheeck, eye for an eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 Now you are splitting hairs. All of the countries in the middle east are Muslin ruled. Call a spade a spade for once. And none of them allow Christian beliefs to be practiced or taught.<br /><br />blame,blame,blame. I must be ignorant because I wont allow you to continue the propaganda of hate you and your "brothers" spew.<br /><br />I dont care if it's the Koran, the Qu'ran or the Quaren, it's a book of evil and piece of ****. As are those that follow it the way you and the other terrorists do.<br /><br />Art brings up a great proposal, let's stop all of our aid to the region and watch them all die. Eye for an Eye right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kefka Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 "...but, it must be said, Kefka, you are one interesting lad."<br />Why thank you, its nice to be intresting, I'd rather not be dull.<br /><br />"When England -- not the U.S. -- carved out Jewish territory in the "Holy Lands" the Arab world responded with something less than pleasure. Since that time the state of Israel has come under attack time and again and time and again Israel has kicked Muslim and Arab *** and expanded borders for defensive reasons."<br />The US is the ******* child of England. Yes carved out Jewish territory, who gave them permission? Did you Art? Nothing you say can deny the fact that the State of Israel is in fact a crime in itself. It doesn't belong to them simply put. <br /><br />"It really isn't the fault of Israel, any more than it is the fault of pioneer Americans, that they are better armed and smarter than the people who were on the land and established for years before the arrival of the newcomers. And like in America where we have won war against the natives, Israel has done the same in the Middle East. Your whining nonsense isn't going to make it different. The Arabs should have fought harder if they didn't want Israel there. But, you now have to understand we are 50 some years into that country's existence. Israel IS REAL and it is time "your brothers" understood that."<br /><br />Not the fault of Israel huh? Give me your address I'll come over and take it over... go find a new home Art.<br /><br />"For 30 years the Israeli government has been willing to talk of a peaceful resolution to the areas combat. And for 30 years rabid, insane, violent Muslim and Arab people have denied that the Jewish state has any right to exist. Israel continues to fight back, rightly, against attacks against it by these insane, rabid, violent Muslim and Arab brothers of yours."<br />How can a country which started out in non-peaceful terms expect to turn to a peaceful resolution. Oxymoron. Please don't call Muslims "insane, rabid, and violent" all they want is their homes back and their dignity restored. <br /><br />"And, nothing the American government has done deserves the hatred and response of this ignorant society that it has inspired. America is not an invading society. America is not Imperial England, though it has the power to be. The ruling government of these "Muslim" lands have always invited the Americans in to help them. The Palestinians take $500 million in aid from us every year. More to other countries in the region."<br />Thats right Art, the American Government has done absolutely nothing wrong. They are innocent. That is a bunch of bs. American is not an invading society? Yes it is, b/c it started out by killing all the Native Americans (who are now only remembered on the helmets of our beloved Redskins). It supports an invading society. $500 million to who? that is a lot of money the Muslims don't see. Your puppet leaders (ie - Arafat ) must be storing it away in his Swiss Account.<br /><br />"And, your brothers are going to have to fight a lot harder if they expect things to change."<br />Oh, the fighting won't cease to end until justice is served. You calling use terrorist doesn't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 Kefka, never question another person's ignorance when you don't have any clue about what you're speaking about.<br /><br />---"Really? You see the US allows freedom of religion. Does ANY Muslim country allow that?"<br />There aren't any "Muslim ruled" countries. Your question is invalid.<br /><br />Yes there are Muslim ruled countries. Iran is a Muslim theocracy, ruled by the Mullahs. Sudan is a country torn, but, is ruled by a Muslim faction that has openly declared war against the Christians in the south. Afghanistan was for many years a Muslim ruled land until we kicked out that government. Taking these three as recent or present examples, you can't answer that these countries allow freedom or tolerate other people's views. Your ignornance notwithstanding.<br /><br />-----"Do any US schools teach it's students to hate Muslims?"<br />No you don't teach students to hate Muslims that would be too obvious. You leave your students ignorant to become like you.<br /><br />We teach history. We require a foreign language. We have an open press. Yes, our children are the ignorant one's Kefka. Yet, what about the children of your brothers? Do they demonstrate the great intelligence you display? If so, again, your ignorance notwithstanding, we wouldn't want to become like you.<br /><br />-----"Like most nations of poverty and hatred, these Muslim Govts blame everyone but themselves."<br />There exists not one (Maybe Iran) "Muslim Government" they are all the puppets of the US and its European buddies.<br /><br />Again, this statement contradicts your opening statement and displayins your own ignorance. Stop doing that Kefka. The U.S. has not done a great deal of nation building. We may support a leader of a nation but that hardly creates a puppet regime. Or would you have us believe Pakistan, which changed governments in a military coup against the popular democratic vote, that drew our ire, is a puppet government we somehow secretly installed to await our call for aid? The people of a nation have the duty and obligation to be governed by a government they desire. It is the people that have the duty to throw off the shackles of repressive governments and if they do not, there is none to blame but themselves. This is a belief central to the foundation of this nation and I am capable of extending that belief to all people everywhere. You've just seen me do it.<br /><br />----"Saddam is in power? Blame America. Our religion advocates terrorism? Blame America. Our people are poor,ignorant and full of hate? Blame America."<br />And I will rightfully do so when the US is one of those who are responsible.<br /><br />No, Kefka, you will do so wrongly when the US isn't responsible, but you don't know enough to realize it.<br /><br />-----"Do us a favor, take the Koran and shove it down your effin throat. It's a religion of hatred and war, and those who follow it are terrorists at heart"<br /><br />Its Qur'an. Its hardly a religion of hatred and war. Its a religion of justice and truth, wether you like it or not. We don't turn the other cheeck, eye for an eye.<br /><br />The Koran preaches hatred, oppression, violence and war against all those that are infidels. Infidels, by the way, are all those not Muslims. This sounds a very truthful religion predicated upon justice, Kefka. Tell me the three worlds as described in the Koran. I'll give you a hint, one is the Islamic World. A second is the world the Islamic World is at war with. That's justice for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 I tell you what Kefka, I'll give you my address, and when you come over to try and take my house, I will destroy you. That's how international boundries are made. If you happen to overpower me (perhaps with the help of other terrorists) you will then possess my house. But the question is, if that happens and I ask for my house back, will you give it to me? What if I lob rocks at you? will you defend yourself and the habitants of the house? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kefka Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 "Now you are splitting hairs. All of the countries in the middle east are Muslim ruled. "<br />Nope. How would you know, you don't know a thing about Islam (calling it a hatful religion). You statement is invalid. <br /><br />"Call a spade a spade for once. And none of them allow Christian beliefs to be practiced or taught."<br />Sorry to be blunt, but, you must be a moron. There are Arab Christian all over the place. lol. <img border="0" title="" alt="[smile]" src="smile.gif" /> <br /><br />"I must be ignorant"<br />I tend to agree.<br /><br />"blame, blame, blame ... because I wont allow you to continue the propaganda of hate you and your "brothers" spew."<br />Believe what you want. But I'm speaking the truth. The truth sometimes hurts and I'm sorry if I poked a nerve.<br /><br />"I dont care..."<br />The truth comes out.<br /><br />"... if it's the Koran, the Qu'ran or the Quaren, it's a book of evil and piece of ****. As are those that follow it the way you and the other terrorists do."<br /><br />This is want ignorance leads to people... read above.<br /><br />"Art brings up a great proposal, let's stop all of our aid to the region and watch them all die. Eye for an Eye right?"<br /><br />Stop your "aid", we aren't seeing any of it anyways. We are a people who starting out eating dates and milk and we can return to such a state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 What about my house proposal?<br /><br />It's not the Arab-Christians (either of them) that control the governments of those countries.<br /><br />It would be great if you and your "brothers" went back to eating dates and milk. Just dont do it in Israel anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 Must have hit send too soon. Full text next page.<br /> <br /> <small>[ February 28, 2002, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: Art ]</small> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kefka Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 Art how nice of you to step in for Kilmer17, you must have a strong brotherhood. <img border="0" title="" alt="[smile]" src="smile.gif" /> <br /><br />"The Koran preaches hatred, oppression, violence and war against all those that are infidels. Infidels, by the way, are all those not Muslims. This sounds a very truthful religion predicated upon justice, Kefka. Tell me the three worlds as described in the Koran. I'll give you a hint, one is the Islamic World. A second is the world the Islamic World is at war with. That's justice for you." <br /><br />First you don't know arabic. Second you must be reading english translations of the meaning of the Qur'an. Third your interpreting it the way you want. All of which is wrong. This what happened to the bible, the original text was destroyed, which led to the corruption of the religion. But Qur'an is in its original text from God, in arabic. After you learn arabic in its fasih from you can come and debate w/ me about my religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kefka Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 Art explain to me how England had control of that portion of land in Palestine please. Lets go back a little in history. <img border="0" title="" alt="[smile]" src="smile.gif" /> <br /><br />And so long as the US continues to fund Israel (ie, money, weapons, UN veto power). The US is part of the problem.<br /><br />Since you believe in the survival of the fittest, let the Muslims "carve" out some land in the US and than give it to Israel.<br /> <br /> <small>[ February 28, 2002, 05:18 PM: Message edited by: Kefka ]</small> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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