timdaley73 Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Can we all please agree that it was NOT Spurrier, but Ramsey that caused fumbles, interceptions, and sacks?!?! I realize that Spurrier could/should have used Max protection schemes. However, that's not his offense (sending out 1 or 2 WR). It's either send at least 3-4 options and hope that the QB would be smart enough to recognize who or where to throw to by anticipation or throw it out of bounds... Ramsey (I'm sure all of you agree) held on to the damn ball forever!! Therefore, causing sacks, fumbles, and interceptions! I don't know if you guys know, but a QB in the NFL has anywhere between 1 - 4 seconds max to decide and execute! Ramsey would hold, hold, and hold!! What's my point?? Well, he had all the chance in the world to prove to us and to the world that it was Spurrier that was to blame for last 2 years! But, as you can STILL see even with Gibbs and Bugel, he holds the ball forever and gets sacked, intercepted, or have the ball knocked down at the line of scrimmage. I am not sure if anyone remembers this interesting stat they mentioned in one of the televised games... He had the most knocked down passes per attemps!! He led the league!! That tells me he doesn't exactly know what to do... And for him to say that he can't throw the ball before the WR makes his last cut?!?! That's ridiculous!! Brunell has not looked sharp either... BUT, he hasn't looked like a chicken with its head chopped off either! I always feel uncomfortable Ramsey going back to pass... CAUSE he looks like a DAMN chicken with its head chopped off!! at least Brunell throws the ball away!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurman Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Short answer, there is a lot of blame to go around. I'm sure the coaching staff tried to correct problems, but didn't do it in such a fashion that the players accepted what they were told and applied it on the field. It feels better to toss it on Spurrier, but most will acknowledge that everyone had their hand in that disaster. Much easier (and more cost-effective) to get a new coach than many many new players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luca Brasi Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 How many times has Ramsey been sacked this preseason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afparent Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Ramsey does have problems you mentioned above, but it still falls on the Head Coach. He drafted him, he made him the starter, he wouldn't take him out of the game unless he was hurt. There was no deterrent. He was going to play no matter what. He didn't enforce discipline from Ramsey or anyone else. He created the loser environment. He also taught some of the bad fundamentals Ramsey had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDane Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 True, perhaps it's the ease of the target that lets us fans blame Spurrier for Ramsey's apparent regression. But it is certainly true that Gibbs' system this year is different from Spurrier's system last year. It is also certainly true that Ramsey is a young QB that had been raised in the NFL, the professional league, under Spurrier's system. Therefore, it is reasonably certain that a part of Ramsey's struggles are due to the change in systems. This change in systems is likely a cause - not necessarily the cause - of Ramsey holding the ball too long, seeming indecisive, etc. No need to rant. So much anger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red zone Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Pat Ramsey is one of the best young quarterbacks in football. Steve Spurrier is out of the NFL. Yes, Pat Ramsey holds on to the ball to long. He knows that better than any of us. That will change with experience. It is far to early for a Ramsey verdict in the Gibbs offense. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TankRizzo Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 which came first, the chicken or the egg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNatsFan Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Originally posted by timdaley73 Can we all please agree ... I don't believe that will happen, regardless of the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan080 Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 ummm no. Thats like me running in the middle of the highway and blaming it on the cars when I get hit. He had absolutley no protection the entire season. I'm not taking all the blame off Ramsey, cause he did make many mistakes. Spurrier, however, had no protectoin schemes. We have much better blocking this year and it shows already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilberMarshall Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 I have already sent my apologies to Mr. Spurrier... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Give him a year under Joe Gibbs, learning the system, learning from Brunell, not taking the brain damaging hits (from SS's system) and then make your judgments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Well, watching the last game, Brunell was holding on to the ball far longer than Ramsey. Ramsey may have grown exacerbated by the constant criticism of him holding the ball too long, and seems to, if anything, pull the trigger a bit too quickly. Spurrier's system required reading the field in reverse order of what most NFL offenses do: Start looking all the way downfield first, and then looking progressively closer, with no hot reads to compensate blitz packages (other than the occasional WR screen). In essence, his system REQUIRES his QB to hang onto the ball for too long by NFL standards, waiting for a play to develop. Waffle got creamed a lot more than Ramsey. Only Matthews and Hasselbeck avoided the SS disease, and this was because they'd spent years of being schooled in the WCO philosophy of just getting rid of the ball asap for a few dink and dunk yards. Remember SS pulling Matthews after several decent performances, stating he didn't like how Matthews was playing? He resented that Matthews was getting rid of the ball before WRs had a chance to run past the safeties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big z Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Remember SS pulling Matthews after several decent performances, stating he didn't like how Matthews was playing? He resented that Matthews was getting rid of the ball before WRs had a chance to run past the safeties. i think you nailed it riggo.... Spurrier wanted his QB to make the big play....he was not concerned with "ball control" style of football, and his own guy, Matthews tried to tell him, but that fell upon deaf ears...Did Ram hold the ball a little too long sometimes? Sure did. But I think Spurrier encouraged that. Don't forget Rypien was a fumble machine prior to 91. Ramsey has so much talent, it's sad to see skins fans jumping off the bandwagon so quickly..... A little patience, and alot of Portis will help Ramsey.....but there is no doubt that Brunell has played better this preseason and deserves to start.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vnmenon1 Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Very, very wrong... I couldnt disagree more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3DaysLatr Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 I'll say that Spurrier plus Ramsey was a QB sack time-bomb waiting to happen. One has crap protection schemes that makes pro-bowl calibur players look in dissaray. The other seems to just love to hold the football. Even still, I'm not going to pin the problem on the inexperienced QB that has no establishe running game or adequate blitz protection for the majority of the problem. Let's see Coaches Gibbs and Breaux work with him and see if we've got something here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timdaley73 Posted August 30, 2004 Author Share Posted August 30, 2004 For those closed minded fans that disagree... THEN HOW THE HELL DO YOU EXPLAIN HASSELBECK OUTPERFORMING AND LOOKING MORE POISED THAN RAMSEY, NOT ONLY LAST YEAR BUT THIS YEAR AS WELL?!?!?! yeah, Hasselbeck has been playing against 2nd/3rd stringers, but Ramsey also had his chances against the 2nd stringers... AND, Hasselbeck played well against other starters last year!! Gibbs also praises Hasselbeck!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucaro Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Much like Riggo said, Hass. is a ball control QB with few natural skills to be a prolific passer. Ramsey is looking downfield first and is having trouble finding those receivers. These comparisons are unfair, apples and oranges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timdaley73 Posted August 30, 2004 Author Share Posted August 30, 2004 UNFAIR?!?! How easy do you see things the way you see them, instead of seeing it how it really is... Hasselbeck was A BETTER QB than Ramsey was in the same system!! He was efficient and smart!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucaro Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Then by all means any QB who had a better year than another at any given time is better. I guess that good year that Feeley had in Philly (when McNabb was hurt) means he is better than McNabb. Good logic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucaro Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 That also must mean that Jim Harbaugh is better than Manning because of JH last year in Indy and Peytons first:laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3DaysLatr Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Originally posted by timdaley73 UNFAIR?!?! How easy do you see things the way you see them, instead of seeing it how it really is... Hasselbeck was A BETTER QB than Ramsey was in the same system!! He was efficient and smart!! What are you looking for with this? Do you want Ramsey as the third QB, do you want him cut as a roster loss and move forward with Hamdan? I'll agree with you that Ramsey holds the ball too long, I already did and I think most of the posters have. Has Hass looked better, I guess so but Hass hasn't gone against anyone's first string at all and he's also got more tuteledge as far as the "keep the sticks moving" WCO mentality goes. But is Hass ever goin to lead the team? I don't think there is any more proof for him to do it than there is for Ramsey. Right now Brunell is the guy and I for one hope he stays real healthy for this season. I'd say that after a year of being tutored by guys like Coach Gibbs, Coach Breaux and Brunell, Patrick will begin to show NFL maturity and perhaps become comfortable with the offense that is in place. Can we agree here, you just seem very upset with your posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucaro Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 We should just give the kid a break and let him learn with Gibbs. Besides this is the preseason. You wouldn't want a girl evaluating how you are in the sack by what you do when your alone at night!:laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timdaley73 Posted August 30, 2004 Author Share Posted August 30, 2004 Originally posted by 3DaysLatr What are you looking for with this? Do you want Ramsey as the third QB, do you want him cut as a roster loss and move forward with Hamdan? I'll agree with you that Ramsey holds the ball too long, I already did and I think most of the posters have. Has Hass looked better, I guess so but Hass hasn't gone against anyone's first string at all and he's also got more tuteledge as far as the "keep the sticks moving" WCO mentality goes. But is Hass ever goin to lead the team? I don't think there is any more proof for him to do it than there is for Ramsey. Right now Brunell is the guy and I for one hope he stays real healthy for this season. I'd say that after a year of being tutored by guys like Coach Gibbs, Coach Breaux and Brunell, Patrick will begin to show NFL maturity and perhaps become comfortable with the offense that is in place. Can we agree here, you just seem very upset with your posting. *Taking a DEEP breath* I am not upset at Ramsey... I am, however, upset at those Ramsey worshippers who can not see how immature he is... AND granted, he hasn't had the best experience the last 2 years under SS... But, everyone recognizes that he looks awkward, uncomfortable, and holds the ball too long... Hass has gone against 1st stringers last year and looked more poised and I felt more comfortable with him back there... For someone who has not started ANY NFL games prior to last year, he looked good compared to Ramsey... All I am saying is that I think Ramsey is over-rated by some dogmatic fans here... He does not deserve to start as long as Brunell is capable... Bottom line... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCDfan Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 QUOTE: ... THEN HOW THE HELL DO YOU EXPLAIN HASSELBECK OUTPERFORMING AND LOOKING MORE POISED THAN RAMSEY, NOT ONLY LAST YEAR BUT THIS YEAR AS WELL Thats plain not true. Hasselbeck's qb rating last year = 63.6. Ramsey's = 75.8. Not even close really. And need I remind you which one got that infamous 0.00 rating against Dallas? Oh wait its SOS's fault -- he didnt provide enough protection in that game :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucaro Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Thanks OCD....game, set, match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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