inmate running the asylum Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Originally posted by bubba9497 :doh: To help prevent double posting a hint, post the paper (like WP: ) and headline in the thread title, easier to see that way I agree with Bubba on this, whatever that means. Watch the bouncing ball......... WT= Washington Times WP= Washington Post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskns21 Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Originally posted by AzSkinsFan63 Someone tell Profootballgossip they were wrong!!!!!! I have a feeling that they knew this before they posted it to the web. IMO, they just throw a bunch of crap at the wall hoping that some of it will stick. This time, as usual, it didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsplayboy Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Is it just me but doenst Vinny seem to be on drugs everytime you see him???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hog Fever Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 I was listening to FOX radio on the way in to work this morning and they were reporting that the Redskins have extended Vinny Cerrato’s contract for 3 additional years. I’m looking for a link now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TankRizzo Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Originally posted by Hog Fever I was listening to FOX radio on the way in to work this morning and they were reporting that the Redskins have extended Vinny Cerrato’s contract for 3 additional years. I’m looking for a link now. The other thread would probably be a good start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hog Fever Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 I looked and missed it. I am full of shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief skin Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 OH PHUCKING NO!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neophyte Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 I am not new to the Cerrato bashing wagon. I have been there since the day he replaced Charlie. His record outside of the first two rounds of the draft sucks. Good work this year? He is the guy who cut Big Daddy and Gardner and left our defense without any middle. The guys he brought in to replace them, even at the start, were little more than journeymen. I'm sorry but I just don't see it. We could have had Bruce Allen or maybe even Ron Wolfe but stuck with Vinny. Please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Neophyte, He didn't cut Gardener. We offered Gardener millions and he wanted more. He got more. How did that work out? He did cut Wilkinson. Then Noble got hurt. Then Haley got hurt. We wound up having to scramble a little at this spot. Nonetheless, the interior was the least of our worries last year. We were continually gouged on outside runs, not inside runs. That is more of a schematic thing than a player thing. As usual with Vinny bashing it's often met with false statements as false statements are the only way to actually BE against him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Originally posted by TK-IV II I So, what's the over/under on JB having a :pooh:fit when reading this? I am okay with this if Joe thinks he is okay then so do I. I have been reading that Vinny has been the one responsible for the Portis deal. If this is true then I applaud him. I still am hesitant on his draft picks in the later round the last couple of years. If we give up the #2 pick this year to Denver then I would be happy it isn't in our hands :laugh: Just kidding, I do think we have to find some players that can start in this draft no matter how many picks we have. We can't have our second and third rounders not be contributers. I think this draft is paramount to Vinny's future with the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 JB, This draft lines up as having two picks. I'm guessing the future is not going to stem from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Originally posted by Art JB, This draft lines up as having two picks. I'm guessing the future is not going to stem from that. I still think we are going to trade down. I have a feeling we end up with either 4 or 5 picks, and just maybe trading Gardner if Jacobs looks good in the minicamps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Originally posted by jbooma I still think we are going to trade down. I have a feeling we end up with either 4 or 5 picks, and just maybe trading Gardner if Jacobs looks good in the minicamps. Then again if Joe believes what another GM said about this years draft where he said this is the worst draft in the last 5 years. We may just stand pat and grab Taylor at 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 I have trouble seeing us go down to be honest. I think we want "the playmaker" and we're lined up to get Taylor. We could trade down obviously. I'm just not of the mind we will. In any case, this draft isn't going to make or break anyone in the organization. Certainly not a guy who just got a three-year extension . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 I've said it before, I'll say it again: The only real problem I ever had with the Snyder/Cerrato marriage was that I didn't believe either of them were anywhere near the best option this could have had as the "lead football" guy shaping and driving the bus. And over the course of last season, I had begun to have serious reservations that Snyder was anywhere close to deciding he needed to add someone who WAS those things to the mix. That concern ended the day he re-hired Gibbs. In that hire, I got my wish ... a man with credentials that only someone unfamiliar with his work would seriously or credibly question. If anyone in the history of the game comes to this job with more "benefit of the doubt" in hand, I'd like to see him. If Gibbs decides Vinny is good for the organization -- there's nobody on this board or anywhere else that's going to convince me they know better. And if he decides somewhere along the way that he wants to add additional front-office/personnel help to either complement or replace Vinny, it'll be an informed decision based on actual day-to-day interaction and observation fo the man's work. The ONLY way I see the extension as problematic is if it's being done over or against Gibbs' better judgement, and due to the owner exerting undue influence. I know some will argue that's precisely what's going on ... but that would be based only on perceptions of what's gone before, and not anything that's happened since he woke up one morning last fall and decided he was really and truly going to turn the page and land the real deal to run his team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 What exactly is the guy doing that Gibbs brought in to help with the personel?? I think he was from Carolina. Curious if he and Vinny are doing the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Originally posted by WM_Marylander Vinny's other memorable moments and decisions.. - Decided to go the extra mile and get the Danny Starbucks coffee, instead of just the same old stuff in the Redskins office - Added the new chauffer hat to his wardrobe to fit in with all of the other high priced butlers. - Used starch, but not too much starch on the Danny's Redskins boxer shorts - Polished the Redskins Belt Buckle to a gleam it hasn't seen since Snyder's youth. - Found a great jacket that says "the real boss hog" for Dan Snyder's Christmas present. This is soooo untrue. Vinny polished something other than Danny's belt buckle....but geograpically you are in the right neighborhood. Seriously, I am not very happy with this development. I've never made any secret of my dislike of Vinny and the "job" he's done. The really good GMs not only do a better job of finding good serviceable role players in the later rounds but also of drafting players who fit the personality of the team/coach. Admittedly we've had a good bit of coaching turnover prior to Gibbs' return. Even so, good GMs get the coach what he needs while still retaining the overall character and personality of the club. For example, when the Ravens brought in an offensive coach (Billick) Newsome still maintained the club philosophy of drafting tough hard nosed players and consistently re-stocking their defense. Cerrato has no concept of this and as a result our drafts have been without focus and our team has no identity. Gibbs will change this over the next few years, but it will be in spite of Cerrato, not because of him. Sorry Art, but using Snyder's criteria of looking at his history does not impress me. Outside of higher picks, he sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Originally posted by jbooma What exactly is the guy doing that Gibbs brought in to help with the personel?? I think he was from Carolina. Curious if he and Vinny are doing the same thing. I think the guy is a just a part timer. More of a scout who gives his opinions on the players that the Skins are interested in bringing in rather than a decision maker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Yusuf, Don't be surprised if the Rock is gone in a year or two. Is that a sign of a blown pick, or a poor fit, should that happen? The change leads to turnover among later picks. We all know that. Further, we know Cerrato was the man calling things in the last draft. We didn't have a lot of picks. Three as I recall. This year we have two. So, getting a lot of players is not as likely as it might be elsewhere. But, what have we done with those lost picks? Largely the moves we've made to solidify the team by taking restricted free agents to simulate successful later round drafts worked. Bowen has some room to improve, but we got FOUR starters and a Pro Bowl kick returner with our draft picks last year. I'd say that qualifies as acceptable return on your investment. Call me crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neophyte Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Art, Maybe I just still have a bad taste in mouth from the way Charlie was let go in favor of a guy who was largely unproven in my mind. Charlie made the huge deal the year before that bagged us Champ and set the Skins up to draft Arrington and Samuels the following year. I am just concerned that Vinny is not strong enough or respected enough to balance Gibbs. Some of the worst moves made by the Redskins under Gibbs/Beathard were for players that Gibbs coveted. Beathard still calls the deal for Gerald Riggs the worst of his career. I guess I am misremembering the Gardner situation and am likely hampered by second hand news as we don't get great coverage here in Dallas of the Redskins. Still mad about Big Daddy though and I am sorry but Noble is not a replacement for either Wilkinson or Gardner, not in anyone's dreams. Noble would be a great guy to bring in for a half dozen plays at a time to give your stud a breather, but he is not going to scare anyone. I just don't think Vinny is all that and a bag of chips. Yeah, he was part of last off season where I was very happy with the results but I don't feel like he had a lot to do with it. He put the info together on all the players available, then the coaching staff and FO people went over it together and decided who to go get. It all felt more like Snyder and Spurrier making the decisions to me. I will keep watching and give him the benefit of the doubt but I would not have kept him around when I could have had a shot at Bruce Allen or Ron Wolfe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Fair enough Neophyte. I think Snyder will tell you one of his mistakes here was picking Norv over Charlie. Charlie wasn't let go in favor of Cerrato. He was let go in favor of Norv. Charlie had built the team. Norv had Snyder's ear. Charlie ignored a couple of Snyder's private requests before he officially took ownership and did his own thing. Snyder believed a team had to have ONE guy they believed was in charge and with Norv and Charlie he couldn't get that. So since he couldn't fire Norv in July, he fired Casserly. Cerrato isn't strong or respected enough to balance Gibbs. Neither is Casserly. Few people are. I'm not certain Gibbs is a guy you necessarily want balanced. Some of the worst moves we made with Gibbs and Beathard were of Gibbs making. Some were of Beathard's making. But, Gibbs made the team go. I was a Big Daddy fan. But, we essentially offered him more than he got from Detroit and a low threshold of incentives to get everything back and he balked. Given that, I think the choice that was made was the proper one. Noble in the defense we were projecting to run was MORE than a replacement for Wilkinson. Wilkinson was a poor fit for that defense, though Wilkinson would have been better in the gap on the shoulder than anyone we had. You don't like Vinny. I understand. What I don't understand is that you know he was part of last offseason. One you were happy with. So, in order not to like the job he did you have to say he wasn't a big part of it. Vinny drove the entire offseason plan. Every bit of it. He evaluated it and put the plan together and gave it to Snyder to strike the contract. Spurrier made very few decisions. He asked for things. He asked for speed on offense and he was given it. But, if recognizing that Cerrato was the catalyst who drove last offseason helps you come around on him, then I suggest you do that. If realizing that wouldn't help, then don't bother . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neophyte Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 I said I recognize he was part of it, not that he was the driving force behind it. The way I understand things is that he and his staff put together a big book of profiles of the players available along with estimates of what it would take to get them. This book was then given to Snyder and the coaches. The coaches evaluated the talent and made their choices, ranking the players at each position in order of who they wanted. When FA started, Snyder went and got them. This is my understanding and I am sure it could be wrong. I just look at the roster today and don't see anything great that is Vinny's work. Pat Ramsey was a great pick but outside of him, who else? Smoot and Gardner were Marty. Samuels and Arrington I credit Charlie for as the skill in getting them was in the deal for the picks. The picks themselves were no brainers. Trotter has not been anything like he was in Philly. Granted, that is as much system as it is personel guy but I think the personel guy has to be plugged into the system being used and understand who fits and who doesn't. I disagree with you on Noble and I am fairly sure I have seen more of him then you have since I get the Dallas game every week and have for the last 18 years (since coming to TX for college). The jury is still out on Haley. I don't know man, maybe I am just missing something. He has just always struck me as a "Yes" man for Snyder and I don't like "Yes" men. Snyder has made a lot of splashy moves that I believe it was Vinny's job to talk him out of and he didn't. Can you say Deion Sanders? Like I said, I will give him the benefit of the doubt and keep an open mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In Flames Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Joe Gibbs will make VC look like a genius. I personally think had they not landed Gibbs AGAIN, cerreto might have been gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posse81 Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 My main and really only issue with Cerrato all along is what Jbooma, Neophyte, and especially Yusef have said on this thread: the draft picks in the middle to late rounds has been dissapointing to say the least. I've gone pick by pick in the past so I won't do it again. We have been able to get value for our picks through the RFA market, but we ought to make the picks the have, count. Until I see a solid draft from top to bottom, I won't be satisfied with Cerrato having a say in the war room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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