Larry Brown #43 Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 On the Steve Spurrier show on Sports Talk 980 this evening, Spurrier said something very interesting and--for most of us--very disappointing. A caller called in and trashed Snyder and Cerrato, saying they are basically worthless. The caller then asked Spurrier what he thought of the front office arrangement and if changes needed to be made in that area. Spurrier responded with this ringing endorsement of the front office: "This is something Mr. Snyder doesn't seem to want to talk about very much. He's pretty comfortable with the current arrangement, so that's about where we are right now." Spurrier said something else this evening that could also be taken as a dig at Snyder, when the Ballcoach was asked who outside of the Redskins organization he speaks to regularly and whose opinion he values. Spurrier named Jimmy Johnson -- the very guy Snyder placed a phone call to a few weeks back. I found this very interesting. I think it was Spurrier's way of saying, "Danny, you thought you were being clever when you called Jimmy Johnson...but what you didn't know is that JJ and I are friends. Everything you said to him 'in confidence' got back to me, because we coaches look out for each other. You're not as friggin' smart as you think you are, you little a-hole." Anyway, the take the Jimmy Johnson comment anyway you like, but Spurrier's frank assessment of the front office was very telling. It's really disaspointing that Snyder won't even ENTERTAIN the idea of bringing in a personnel guru and letting him do his thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RF4L Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Sucks for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 There is no secret that Spurrier and Vinnie C, are not on the same page to say the least. Snyder is strddling a fence between the two, and maybe forced to decide if he is going to Support the Ball Coach, or continue to handcuff him with Cerrato. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMac Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 are we a frickin disfunctional team or what? As for straddling the fence, why is he working on a contract extension for Vinny? This team is a disgrace right now and it is taking its toll on me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Brown #43 Posted December 23, 2003 Author Share Posted December 23, 2003 Originally posted by bubba9497 There is no secret that Spurrier and Vinnie C, are not on the same page to say the least. Snyder is strddling a fence between the two, and maybe forced to decide if he is going to Support the Ball Coach, or continue to handcuff him with Cerrato. Well, since Spurrier doesn't seem to have the time or the interest to play raquetball with Danny, I think the choice is clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitz Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 I think you may be reading a little too much into the Jimmy Johnson comment, but it's impossible to know one way or the other. But one thing that still seems to stick in his craw is when Snyder vetoed a roster spot for Wuerffel. SS said, "I thought I was going to be able to choose the backup quarterback, but other than that, it [the arrangement] has worked out okay." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70Chip Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 What do y'all say -- should we make some playing cards with a picture of Vinny on the Ace of Spades? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMac Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Is Karl Swanson still the PR man for the Redskins? I think its about time he gets a X-Mas card from us. This ship is sunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Brown #43 Posted December 23, 2003 Author Share Posted December 23, 2003 Originally posted by Fitzman I think you may be reading a little too much into the Jimmy Johnson comment, but it's impossible to know one way or the other. But one thing that still seems to stick in his craw is when Snyder vetoed a roster spot for Wuerffel. SS said, "I thought I was going to be able to choose the backup quarterback, but other than that, it [the arrangement] has worked out okay." Fitz, you might be right about the JJ comment. However, what I've learned about Spurrier over the last couple of years is he makes a lot of comments that seem benign on the surface but are designed to get a reaction out of someone. He rarely says something without a hidden agenda buried deep beneath the surface. As for the Wuerffel thing...yes, he did make that comment. But later when someone asked him point-blank to assess the front office, he said, more or less, that, "It sucks, but it's the one I'm stuck with." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius J. Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Mr. Larry Brown, Please continue to trash the owner as much as you want, I suppose it is your right, but in the future, please pay attention to facts before you start making things up. We are a bad enough team to find valid criticisms, so why resort to making stuff up? Not only did you read way too much into BOTH comments, you totally ignored the fact that snyder has wooed more than one respected GM and has been rebuffed by both. So, don't go around pretending that snyder is unwilling to hire a GM, it just doesn't stand up to facts. -DB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Cerrato is a personnel guru. That's pretty much been what he's done. Not to the greatest of success before coming here. Certainly to better success since coming here. While I was a guy firmly in the Wuerffel camp this year, the general view here was that it was SMART of the front office to remove Wuerffel from the equation. I think we had polls here showing how much most wanted Wuerffel gone. Now, it seems that repeatedly people are using that issue to show that Spurrier is being undercut. Again, I was FOR bringing Wuerffel back and if that's the entire reason Spurrier has struggled, then he's not cut out to be an NFL coach. The problem with Spurrier isn't who he has or who he doesn't have. The problem is when other teams know everything we're doing and, worse, when our guys admit to it after games. The problem is we have a coaching staff that not only fails to use the defensive personnel in a way ideal for their talent, but, worse, they fail to even compel defensive players to play to their assignments on any given basis. Take the fourth and 1 that Davis caught for 25 yards or whatever in the Carolina game. The front office isn't to blame because the linebacker -- in that case Trotter -- refused to play his assignment and the Panthers got us on it. Arrington blew an assignment earlier in the year against the Giants that cost us the game as well. Then the Bucs game was a clear sight of how a good coach, Gruden, could overwhelm and confuse us on defense, creating beneficial matchups to exploit against us. Again, none of this is solved by a personnel guru. While I have the greatest of hopes that Edwards, like a young QB, is learning on the job and can improve, our problem has been his abject failure this year to even get his guys to play the basic assignments he gives them, and to a lesser degree, but still obvious one, that Spurrier continues to go against good coaches and put forth a stinker of a game where the opposition is all over everything we try. That's a lack of coaching, preparation and accountability on this team. And none of it stems from who's out there. You could have the WORST players in the league and ALL of the failures of this nature you see on the field EVERY single week is due to poor coaching. I just can't figure out why so many don't want to see this. I see it and I've been among Spurrier's biggest supporters. More, I have never been pleased with Cerrato's input -- thrilled with Mendes though before he left -- and I can see how he's not hurting us right now. If I can see the obvious which is against my previous views on the matter, it would seem to me that everyone else should be able to as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefhogskin48 Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Originally posted by Art That's a lack of coaching, preparation and accountability on this team. And none of it stems from who's out there. You could have the WORST players in the league and ALL of the failures of this nature you see on the field EVERY single week is due to poor coaching. I just can't figure out why so many don't want to see this. I see it and I've been among Spurrier's biggest supporters. Yes Art! This is what I've been trying to say for weeks now. At some point people have to understand that the problem is not lack of talent, but coaching. I don't care how much talent you add to this team, if we are being consistently outcoached, there's no way we'll be a winning team. Just look how confused our defense looks when the opposing offense comes out in a unique set. We have burnt countless timeouts this season because of being underprepared for what other teams throw at us. Hell, it seems to take 15 seconds for our defense to get set, and often our CBs don't even know who to cover. Inexcusable, and a microchasm of the problems facing this team right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Brown #43 Posted December 23, 2003 Author Share Posted December 23, 2003 Originally posted by DrunkenBoxer Mr. Larry Brown, Please continue to trash the owner as much as you want, I suppose it is your right, but in the future, please pay attention to facts before you start making things up. We are a bad enough team to find valid criticisms, so why resort to making stuff up? Not only did you read way too much into BOTH comments, you totally ignored the fact that snyder has wooed more than one respected GM and has been rebuffed by both. So, don't go around pretending that snyder is unwilling to hire a GM, it just doesn't stand up to facts. -DB What did I make up? I acknowledged that the Jimmy Johnson comment is up to the individual to take it how they wish. I chose to take it one way, but the way I interpreted it is by no means gospel. As for Spurrier's assessment of the front office -- pardon me if I'm mistaken, but I imagine in California that you didn't hear the frustration in Spurrier's voice when he spoke of Snyder's unwillingness to even TALK about bringing in a quality GM or reorganizing the front office? Perhaps Snyder has been rebuffed by potential GMs before, but AT THIS TIME Snyder is not willing to discuss hiring a GM or reorganizing the front office. I didn't make it up, as you asyninely suggested -- Spurrier just said it tonight himself. And he said it in a way to suggest that he has brought the subject up with Danny, and has had the door slammed in his face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Brown #43 Posted December 23, 2003 Author Share Posted December 23, 2003 Art, the only thing I would say in response is that our two problems -- the front office and the coaching staff -- are not mutually exclusive. Just because our coaching staff is overmatched does not mean that we have a good front office. Right now, we have one of the worst front offices AND one of the worst coaching staffs in the league. It's actually frightening how bad and deep this whole mess is right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius J. Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Not wanting to talk about it and not entertaining it are wildly different things. FACT: Snyder has had a policy this season of absolutely no comments to the media during the season about anything. FACT: Cerrato and Snyder have been in the process of negotiating an extension for a while now. Several washington post articles at the beginning of the year were printed on this subject. FACT: Snyder has tried in the past to improve our FO situtation, as he has with every other position on the field. You seem to have interpreted these facts to mean that snyder is not now entertaining thoughts of change, but the facts have many possible interpretations. Given that he has sought an upgrade in the past, coming to the worst possible conclusion and then bashing him for it seems premature. -DB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Brown #43 Posted December 23, 2003 Author Share Posted December 23, 2003 Originally posted by DrunkenBoxer Not wanting to talk about it and not entertaining it are wildly different things. FACT: Snyder has had a policy this season of absolutely no comments to the media during the season about anything. FACT: Cerrato and Snyder have been in the process of negotiating an extension for a while now. Several washington post articles at the beginning of the year were printed on this subject. FACT: Snyder has tried in the past to improve our FO situtation, as he has with every other position on the field. You seem to have interpreted these facts to mean that snyder is not now entertaining thoughts of change, but the facts have many possible interpretations. Given that he has sought an upgrade in the past, coming to the worst possible conclusion and then bashing him for it seems premature. -DB When Spurrier said that Snyder is not willing to discuss changing the front office, he was referring to Snyder's unwillingness to discuss such a change with SPURRIER, not with the media. Spurrier also said that Snyder is very comfortable with the current arrangement. That fact, coupled with the reports of Snyder's negotiating an extension with Cerrato, indicate to me that Snyder is not very interested in improving the front office. If Snyder proves me wrong after the season and tells Vinny to screw off, and then goes out and gives the keys to the car to a respected NFL GM, I will gladly admit my mistake. And if little blue men come to my doorstep tomorrow and start singing showtunes, I'll admit I guessed wrong on that one too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius J. Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 I doubt that the front office will change much, because, I don't see any clear upgrades over what we have. Wolf and Beatherd have already said no. Ruskell is a possibility, but he isn't neccesarily an upgrade. He might be, but he sure doesn't fit your bill of a respected NFL GM. So, given everything snyder has done in the past, I think we will go into next season with cerrato because nothing else will be better. Also, why should snyder talk to spurrier about this now? Spurrier needs to try to win the next game. After that, we talk about next year. If snyder was positivehe wanted cerrato around, why hasn't the deal been done yet? -DB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Brown #43 Posted December 23, 2003 Author Share Posted December 23, 2003 Originally posted by DrunkenBoxer Also, why should snyder talk to spurrier about this now? Spurrier needs to try to win the next game. After that, we talk about next year. If snyder was positivehe wanted cerrato around, why hasn't the deal been done yet? Probably because Snyder has to fight off all the competing offers for Vinny's services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius J. Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 I know you don't believe that. seriously, think about it. If it was a forgone conclusion, why hasn't the deal been done? -DB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Larry, While stating we have one of the worst front offices in the league may bring a certain feeling of pleasuring for having said on your part, the fact is, saying it serves little more than a guttural instinct, and doesn't tend toward accuracy at all. It is probably true that we do not have the best personnel man in the game. Despite that, it is likely true that we have one of the smoothest operating, best working front offices in the game. The interworking between Cerrato and Snyder has allowed very successful offseasons in terms of personnel the last couple of years, though, again, much of that also counts to the credit of Mendes last year. Why we'd want Snyder to tell Cerrato to screw off is beyond me. I don't even like Cerrato very much, but I'm not so bound by cliche necessities that I fail to see how well they work together. I haven't missed the clear plan Cerrato put together and helped execute to the betterment of this team in the offseason. Was every personnel move peaches and cream? Well, no. Noble got hurt and Fiore didn't pan out and some other dings and scrapes have limited some of the pickups. By in large though, the BEST part of THIS year's Washington Redskins has been the incoming parts and not the returning ones. Before, during and after Spurrier's first offseason here we kept hearing that building of this team was a process and not every need would be fulfilled in one offseason. We saw measurable personnel improvements built for the future last offseason. More were needed and more were had this offseason. We are one of the youngest teams in football. We've got a team that can, should we chose, be largely held together this year. Of the 11 starters we have right now on defense, only one is either not under contract or withheld from totally free movement. That being Holsey. Smith is under contract but is all but gone. Champ and Ohalete are restricted free agents to some degree giving us some flexibility and control there. Offensively all 11 of our starters are under contract. This is a team that is being put together to compete over time. The success we've had in identifying players we want, and then getting them is unmatched in football. It wasn't a mistake to surrender the picks we did for the players we did this offseason. We did that to replenish the fact that we haven't had a great deal of internal depth from drafts stemming from the fact that we kept changing coaching direction and personnel needs. The plain inability here is in the fact that our coaching staff seems overwhelmed much of the time. Spurrier still has moments of genius you can look at and hope he can build on. Edwards has largely appeared lost, which seems to be a combination of things, chief among them, his total inability to get guys to do what he tells them to do on any given play. The front office gave Spurrier the type of team he needed to win. Especially so offensively. We knew we'd suffer through growing pains with Ramsey and we have. But much of this years regression as a team has not been from a front office failing. It's been from a coaching staff failing. Our front office works better together and gets more accomplished than most teams could dream. Hell, the Vikings can't even figure out how to make their pick on the clock in the NFL Draft. Yet, they're winning football games. Coaching matters in football like no other sport. It always has. In time, some people will figure out it always will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Originally posted by DrunkenBoxer Mr. Larry Brown, Please continue to trash the owner as much as you want, I suppose it is your right, but in the future, please pay attention to facts before you start making things up. Druken I assume you didn't hear the conversation. Yes Spurrier was taking a huge shot at Danny it was so obvious how he responded to the question. So don't go and get on someone's case for maybe not beeing 100% accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Even Madder Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Now, it seems that repeatedly people are using that issue to show that Spurrier is being undercut. What you don't seem understand is that you can agree that it was the worst idea in the world to keep Wuerffel and AT THE SAME TIME understand that when the FO intervened and cut him it was undercutting Spurrier -- and a public humiliation. If Spurrier decides to start Gardner at QB this week, so be it -- Snyder and Cerrato should keep their mouths shut. It's Spurrier's job, his decision. Same with the Wuerffel thing -- Snyder is paying him millions, and one of the reasons is because he's an offensive guru (supposedly). So why the hell wouldn't you let him pick his backup, 3rd-string QB? Again, I think Wuerffel was a rag-armed sack machine who had a much better chance of winning the Miss America pageant than a football game. But when Snyder cut him just to make sure Spurrier couldn't yank Ramsey, that's meddling. That's highly offensive meddling, because QBs are Spurrier's thing. I don't know how anyone could objectively look at that situation and not conclude that Spurrier was undercut. The problem with the front office isn't just the dumb things they do, like undercutting Spurrier with Wuerffel, which creates an unnecessary rift between coaches and management (and ultimately proved to be a completely retarded move that blew up in their faces). The problem is the things they don't do, like find anyone who can rush the passer. Of course, problems like that are compounded by truly awful coaching. Ultimately, the front office and head coach deserve each other -- they've been equally inept this year. The players also have some egg on their faces -- even though they had holes in the roster and poor game preparation, they still had chances to make plays and didn't. It's us fans who got screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Art don't forget that the Watson thing was big fight as well. Spurrier wanted him and the FO didn't. Spurrier said in his show that the Rock is the best back we have and was saying the most dependable this year. He is not happy at all with Candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius J. Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 all I know is that what he said didn't follow from the quotes. Larry, I apologize for being so attacking, it's just a pain that everyone reads everything the most negative way possible. jboom, spurrier's real pissed right now, but the leap from not wanting to talk to anyone to not considering is real, real, big, especially while a season is underway. The rumors of upheaval have been everywhere, and snyder is keeping things close to the vest right now. He has so many reasons not to talk to ANYONE about this right now. Spurrier tends to be real careful about what he says on mondays, and the words right now stick out like a sore thumb. Why right now? You hear spurrier talk about his assistants with words like right now, and I think its pretty clear where that's headed. -DB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Even Madder Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 I haven't missed the clear plan Cerrato put together and helped execute to the betterment of this team in the offseason. What plan? Seriously, it looked totally opportunistic and haphazard to me. Grabbed Coles -- good move. Grabbed Thomas -- nice. Cut Big Daddy in training camp and then scrambled to sign every warm fat body at the buffet -- dumb move with mindbogglingly dumb timing. Let your player-of-the-year at a "need" position depart via FA -- questionable move. Cut Stephen Davis, Pro Bowl RB, and replaced him with a committee of nobodies -- tough decision. Cut Watson over coach's objections -- questionable. Drafted a WR in the 2nd despite a logjam at WR -- odd. Paid first-round money for an unproven safety based on one good game -- questionable. Signed only Rob Johnson (Rob Johnson?!?) to backup Ramsey -- bizarre. This is a plan? By the way, the results of your "betterment" are in: 5-11. Last year weren't they 7-9? How is this betterment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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