Redskins Fall To Jets, 34-20

[hailmary]

I am kind of in between right now as you both know. If we lose to Tampa to me that will be a horrible sign. I know it's probably not fair to put that much on one game but I think again I believe the wild card here is Scot did not hire Jay. I just don't see him sticking with him after a 2-5 start and losing to a team as bad as Tampa.

 

Having said that, TAB you are not being fair in at least one area: You said: and master of discipline (minimizing mistakes - not good).  That's just not true. This is a very young team with a lot injury replacements. Still, look at the penalties:

 

10, 7, 7, 11 the first 4 games but that last two? 5 against Atl, then 3 against the Jets. Considering the league average is still around 8 per game per team that's a huge accomplishment. I would even argue that maybe the focus on not being penalized has cost some aggression. In this league it seems with all the stupid ****ing rules, you have to push the envelope and make the refs make calls or you get your head handed to you, but that's a different conversation.

 

But only 8 penalties in the last 2 gms and only 3 the last game, that in your own words is directly due to the HC. You can't solely blame him for the penalties then not give him the same credit when it goes well. Again, this is with a lot of injury replacements and very young players. The personal fouls are gone, very few if any holding, team is showing some good discipline.

I get your point goskins about Scot not having his coach and yes if that bothers him then he better do something fast because the longer you wait the harder it will effect this whole process. My only question would be why support this HC they way he has if he truly doesn't believe in him, why say " But when it’s all said and done, we all take ownership together and understand that we’re going to have good days and bad days. But if we stay together, there’ll be a lot less bad days. A lot less.” 

especially beings... that's what good teams do and this organization has not followed that in 20 years of losing...... so this quote says to me he has faith in this staff and he knows the importance of tenure and patience when building a new foundation for such a run down organization. If Scot has a change in heart with current staff the sooner the better with the change and he had better do his homework because it will be on his head if it fails!!

[hailmary]

It's still a clear weakness. Is it worth getting fired over? Maybe not now. But we could be 4-2 or maybe 5-1 if we made better half time adjustments. We have been ahead in every game but the Giants. We play very well in the first half then come out flat in the 3rd. It cost us the Miami game and the Jets game. The Jets are just a better team. So losing to the Jets is not as big a problem. But we should never have lost to Miami.

 

One of the few things that are the direct responsibilities of the coaching staff is half time adjustments. The fact is they are not making them. This has to improve.

GO i really don't understand everyones idea of "half time adjustments" I have talked to former players and its just not what fans think, they are constantly making adjustments.  The fact you point out about being ahead in most first halves tells me that they are not getting beat badly in 1st half so at that point why make a drastic change and why not stick to the game plan while winning? Like i said before this team has over achieved in 1st half with the new mindset and it eventually comes down to execution with the player on the other side and unfortunately we have lost them battles more than we have won. Has the coaching staff been perfect NO by no means.    

[TheyAreBack]

HAIL - it is not that I dislike Gruden, I don't know him and could care less about him personally. However, as a Redskins head coach I want him to succeed and success in the NFL is defined as continuous progress {with minor setbacks of course} - one would have a hard time saying that is true in the year and half since Gruden took over this team.

You can build a team of winners or losers. I fear we are building losers and when that happens the next phase involves reclaiming the players - too many talented players with spirit on this team to get into that mode.

HAIL - still waiting for your reasons why I should support Gruden. I must dislike him is not a good reason in my opinion, however; if you like it go with it.

 

GO you are right about the one part of discipline - the number of penalties is way down. However; the other parts excessive turnovers, bad execution {including absence of adjustments}, and penalties at the wrong time {running into the kicker} are still a problem - in my opinion. I can go with a win is a must with Tampa but would also add there needs to be signs of continued progress - more little steps forward than backward would be a nice start. 

I shouldn't go back to Gibbs first time first year but that is the type of continued progress that would be great - start off poor and make adjustments that by the end of the year show us a team on a definite upswing. 

Good job on correcting me on the number of penalties, keep it up. my ego needs a poke from time to time.

[goskins10]

GO i really don't understand everyones idea of "half time adjustments" I have talked to former players and its just not what fans think, they are constantly making adjustments.  The fact you point out about being ahead in most first halves tells me that they are not getting beat badly in 1st half so at that point why make a drastic change and why not stick to the game plan while winning? Like i said before this team has over achieved in 1st half with the new mindset and it eventually comes down to execution with the player on the other side and unfortunately we have lost them battles more than we have won. Has the coaching staff been perfect NO by no means.    

 

 

I understand adjustments are made throughout the game. They are clearly not making adjustments in the 3rd Q as quickly as they should. I agree it's not all on the coaches. There is always an element of execution. However, the coaches need to put them in position to succeed. And for whatever reason they are not doing so in the 3rd Q and it has to be fixed. Regardless of when the adjustments are made we are getting beat in the 2nd half. Honestly, if you fix that, we could win a lot of games this year I believe.

 

As far as Scot supporting Jay to start, since Jay just got here, if it were me I would want to see if the guy can make it or I need to make a change. I can';t speak for Scot and obviously do not know what he is actually thinking but I could easily see it going that way.

 

JMO

 

Let's see how we do at Tampa. We have been embarrassed there a few times recently. We need to beat them. They are a bad team.

[goskins10]

Hail - it is not that I dislike Gruden, I want him to succeed, but success is defined by progress and that is not apparent. Still waiting for your definition of why I should be for him. GO you are right about the one part of discipline, number of penalties is down, but the mistakes (turnovers, execution, and penalties at the wrong time are still present.

 

 

We won the TO battle the last two games, even with Cousins ints. I don't mind holding a guy accountable but it has to be accurate. Execution is the players, period. Jay does not make as single tackle, pass play, run, interception or penalty. It's the players.

 

There were many plays to be had on the Jets and the Falcons. The players did not execute. Some of that is missing as many as 9 starters. You can turn a blind eye to that but it's a fact. Even guys like Tarik-Brashir brought it up and he been one of the harshest critics. The rest is we just don't have enough talent yet.

 

We made great strides during the last year, but there is a lot of work to do.

[TheyAreBack]

GO - while the head coach doesn't play, he does select the players that do and he also instills discipline (makes it plain you must not beat yourself if you want to play), so I don't give Gruden a pass on the mistakes. Mistakes will happen, but at the wrong time and place doesn't seem to be a thing we win any week. But those are my opinions and you go with yours.

 

JOHN - thanks for digging up the facts.

 

Other- what happened to Canada?

[goskins10]

GO - while the head coach doesn't play, he does select the players that do and he also instills discipline (makes it plain you must not beat yourself if you want to play), so I don't give Gruden a pass on the mistakes. Mistakes will happen, but at the wrong time and place doesn't seem to be a thing we win any week. But those are my opinions and you go with yours.

 

JOHN - thanks for digging up the facts.

 

Other- what happened to Canada?

 

Not trying to be obtuse here but you highlighted 3 areas and at least 2 of those are much improved in just 6 gms  AS for execution, even if the coaches share some of it, the players have to take most of the responsibility.

 

So 2/3s of the problem has been addressed in just 6 games. When do you start saying, hey the guy is making a positive impact? Please don't fall back on just wins and losses. So far your argument as been around discipline. The data suggests he doing much better in that category.

 

Are they perfect? Hell no! I am not even sure he is the guy. Not sure he is not. But there are signs Jay is doing a better job and getting better.

[Johns Bass]

I see it as 46 -3 

I also see 2 out of the 3 worst 3rd quarters we won them games so not sure what this all means at this point. Like i said before we have been underdogs in every game so far, had we been favorites this would be much more alarming.

 

The Redskins entered Sunday's game against the Jets being outscored a combined 32-3 in the third quarter of their five games so far in 2015.

 

link: http://www.redskins.com/news-and-events/article-1/Redskins-Fall-To-Jets-34-20/5c3135a5-5264-464a-904b-839cb4f4eb23loJohns 

Plus 17 from the box score against the Jets. That's the basis of how I got to 49. Perhaps the Skins website is wrong (which wouldn't be a first) but that's where the numbers come from. 

[TheyAreBack]

Not trying to be obtuse here but you highlighted 3 areas and at least 2 of those are much improved in just 6 gms  AS for execution, even if the coaches share some of it, the players have to take most of the responsibility.

Sorry, the players are selected by the Head Coach, if they do not perform to his standards they need to sit down. 100% Gruden's choice.

Please don't fall back on just wins and losses.

Sorry again, but winning is everything and winning they are not doing, I have a personal aversion to losing, but I do understand some are not that way.

GO, my opinion is at nearly 1 1/2 years of Gruden the minuscule improvements you talk about are not cutting it. However, if you are happy with them GO for it.

 

What happened to Canada?

Can anybody think of the good posters (user names) from the years before we should try to get back on-line. I will gladly contact them and ask them to rejoin us.

 

How does one start with the good editor? I type my comments and after posting hit today to get to it, or today for quotes.

 

Good insight is always enlightening, John thanks again for the background research.

[hailmary]

The Redskins entered Sunday's game against the Jets being outscored a combined 32-3 in the third quarter of their five games so far in 2015.

 

link: http://www.redskins.com/news-and-events/article-1/Redskins-Fall-To-Jets-34-20/5c3135a5-5264-464a-904b-839cb4f4eb23loJohns 

Plus 17 from the box score against the Jets. That's the basis of how I got to 49. Perhaps the Skins website is wrong (which wouldn't be a first) but that's where the numbers come from. 

 

 

 

 

3rd quater scores 

miami 0 skins 0 lost

rams 10 skins 0 won

gmen 3 skins 0 lost

eagles13 skins 3 won

ny jets 17 skins o lost

 

this is the correct scores in 3rd quarter play this season and i really don't think much on it beings we have been underdogs. now if this were  continually happening while being a favorite then i would start to ask why? but as you can see we have won in 2 out of 3 biggest 3rd quarter points allowed?

[TheyAreBack]

You left out the Falcons. That gives us a 3rd quarter record of five losses and 1 tie, or getting beat 46 to 3 (using your numbers with the Falcons included). Something obviously needs adjusting at half, which is what I think is the point the posters are trying to make.

 

 

3rd quater scores 

miami 0 skins 0 lost

rams 10 skins 0 won

gmen 3 skins 0 lost

eagles13 skins 3 won

falcons 3 skins 0 lost

ny jets 17 skins o lost

 

[hailmary]

You left out the Falcons. That gives us a 3rd quarter record of five losses and 1 tie, or getting beat 46 to 3 (using your numbers with the Falcons included). Something obviously needs adjusting at half, which is what I think is the point the posters are trying to make.

Its not "halftime" adjustments it's EXECUTION by our players! I AM TIRED OF HEARING THIS BS ABOUT "HALFTIME ADJUSTMENTS" that is foolish and if you think that you don't know the game! In todays game they have more support for the "chess game" than ever before in this league and coaching staffs are making adjustments every play that is called! There are 25 Surface tablets available at every NFL game now for each team — 13 on the sidelines, and 12 up in the assistant coaches’ booths. Devices on the sidelines connect to a private, secure in-stadium WiFi network, while assistant coaches hook up to a wired connection. All other features of a consumer-grade Surface Pro 2 have been stripped away. The tablets only allow access to a Sideline Viewing System app that provides the photos of recent plays.

Traditionally, images would be sent to a printer, and a team assistant would have to print the photos and compile them into a binder.

It all comes down to our players beating the other player across from them and we are not doing that. You can say play calling this and play calling that but in the end they are calling plays that our team knows and have practiced  and it then becomes time to win the battle and we are not winning the battles! It's only a bad 'PLAY CALL" when it fails ....just remember that

 

stats from tandler ....All year the Redskins’ opponents have scored 48 points off of turnovers and 35 of those came after third-quarter takeaways

 

In the first, second, and fourth quarters the Redskins average about 19 offensive plays run. In the third quarter they average 11 plays. The average 5.2 yards per play outside of the third quarter and 4.3 yards per play in the third. That drop in average per play is even more dramatic in the rushing game. In the “good” three quarters they average a respectable 4.2 yards per rush while in the “bad” quarter the average drops to a pathetic 2.4.

[TheyAreBack]

Its not "halftime" adjustments it's EXECUTION by our players! I AM TIRED OF HEARING THIS BS ABOUT "HALFTIME ADJUSTMENTS" that is foolish and if you think that you don't know the game! In todays game they have more support for the "chess game" than ever before in this league and coaching staffs are making adjustments every play that is called! 

HAIL - losers keep on doing the same thing and expect different results. Winners continually adjust to maximize their potential to win. Gruden at this point is doing the same thing throughout the game and losing because of it.

You are definitely not going to believe me so take a trip around the other Redskins sites and you will find the consensus is he has to change or he needs to be replaced. Even on this site, a Redskins site, there is a topic that says they have to fix the 3rd quarter problem.

However, if it makes you happy believing what you believe don't let me stop you.

[hailmary]

" HAIL - losers keep on doing the same thing and expect different results. Winners continually adjust to maximize their potential to win. Gruden at this point is doing the same thing throughout the game and losing because of it."

 

SO IS THAT LIKE YOU wanting to fire another staff after 20 some games ??????

 

IS THAT NOT WHAT WE HAVE DONE IN 2 LOSING DECADES??? 

TAKE YOUR OWN ADVICE MAYBE )

I GET IT YOU HATE GRUDEN AND KIRK BECAUSE YOUR ONE LEGGED DOG IS NOT IN THE FIGHT:)) HAVE A GREAT NIGHT:))

[CTskin]

One of the better threads ive seen in a while. It's not hugs and happy, but i good talk.

 

So, it's obvious to all that we are outplayed consistently in the 3rd. We may disagree on the reason why, but the bottom line is that it needs to stop. This last game I wouldn't even look at, we were outplayed thru the first half but got lucky, many times. The crumble was inevitable.

 

I've always been against drafting WRs early, maybe its because we've struck out every time we've done it, but I am 100% behind drafting a big body if they are available. Maybe a TE if one falls in our lap. But, what we definitely need is a QB who can accurately throw a mid-range ball. As long as Ds play 8 in the box, it doesn't matter how much talent is on the OL, the run game won't work.

 

Btw, Moses and Sherff were rated #1 and #6 by pff at their respective positions thru the first 4 weeks... They will only continue to improve. Assuming that's true, and TW stays healthy, we have a respectable 3/5s of our Oline in place for years to come.

 

Let's keep our heads up. Jets are the best D in football. If we can bounce back well against the Bucs this week and go into the bye with confidence and time to get healthy, then part 2 of the year could be fun. I hated to see the Eagles win, but that just makes this division even more wide open.

[TheyAreBack]

" HAIL - losers keep on doing the same thing and expect different results. Winners continually adjust to maximize their potential to win. Gruden at this point is doing the same thing throughout the game and losing because of it."

 

HAIL SAID

SO IS THAT LIKE YOU wanting to fire another staff after 20 some games ?????? Hail - it is 22 games

 

IS THAT NOT WHAT WE HAVE DONE IN 2 LOSING DECADES??? 

TAKE YOUR OWN ADVICE MAYBE )

I GET IT YOU HATE GRUDEN AND KIRK BECAUSE YOUR ONE LEGGED DOG IS NOT IN THE FIGHT:)) HAVE A GREAT NIGHT:))

What we have done for 25 years is act without a winning strategy. First it was a money thing when Cooke died and left his son the team without the financial resources to run it. Followed by a Snyder thing that established marketing in front of winning and placed unsuccessful football friends in key football positions.

I personally believe when Snyder hired Scot he finally accepted the fact that he/cronies were not football GM material, and that while he was making a lot of money he really wanted to win. Note: Your Gruden is a Snyder/Allen hire.

I am for waiting for Scot to make the decision on our next step, because I believe he knows how to win. You don't provide much of a how to win strategy. I really enjoy, even when I don't agree,  most of the posters on this site that provide insight and therefore increase my knowledge. At you - how would you make this team a winner?

Winning is hard and requires consistent progress. Losing is easy all you have to do is stay with losers. Gruden at this point is obviously not a winner and you still have not given me a football reason to keep Gruden - longer than 22 games is not a strategy - that is like saying we fired Zorn too quickly.

However, if you like your method go for it as it is not for me to stop you.

[hailmary]

One of the better threads ive seen in a while. It's not hugs and happy, but i good talk.

 

So, it's obvious to all that we are outplayed consistently in the 3rd. We may disagree on the reason why, but the bottom line is that it needs to stop. This last game I wouldn't even look at, we were outplayed thru the first half but got lucky, many times. The crumble was inevitable.

 

I've always been against drafting WRs early, maybe its because we've struck out every time we've done it, but I am 100% behind drafting a big body if they are available. Maybe a TE if one falls in our lap. But, what we definitely need is a QB who can accurately throw a mid-range ball. As long as Ds play 8 in the box, it doesn't matter how much talent is on the OL, the run game won't work.

 

Btw, Moses and Sherff were rated #1 and #6 by pff at their respective positions thru the first 4 weeks... They will only continue to improve. Assuming that's true, and TW stays healthy, we have a respectable 3/5s of our Oline in place for years to come.

 

Let's keep our heads up. Jets are the best D in football. If we can bounce back well against the Bucs this week and go into the bye with confidence and time to get healthy, then part 2 of the year could be fun. I hated to see the Eagles win, but that just makes this division even more wide open.

I AGREE! 

you can scheme and hide for a while but eventually the better players figure out how to beat the lesser ones. 

[hailmary]

What we have done for 25 years is act without a winning strategy. First it was a money thing when Cooke died and left his son the team without the financial resources to run it. Followed by a Snyder thing that established marketing in front of winning and placed unsuccessful football friends in key football positions.

I personally believe when Snyder hired Scot he finally accepted the fact that he/cronies were not football GM material, and that while he was making a lot of money he really wanted to win. Note: Your Gruden is a Snyder/Allen hire.

I am for waiting for Scot to make the decision on our next step, because I believe he knows how to win. You don't provide much of a how to win strategy. I really enjoy, even when I don't agree,  most of the posters on this site that provide insight and therefore increase my knowledge. At you - how would you make this team a winner?

Winning is hard and requires consistent progress. Losing is easy all you have to do is stay with losers. Gruden at this point is obviously not a winner and you still have not given me a football reason to keep Gruden - longer than 22 games is not a strategy - that is like saying we fired Zorn too quickly.

However, if you like your method go for it as it is not for me to stop you.

First and foremost i never once said i like or dislike Gruden, I have in fact said we shall give him a realistic chance, something this organization has not done in 2 decades of losing! So once again, we can't do the same and expect different results!  No one thought this team was anything special at seasons start and most thought we were a 4-6 win team. We are at 2 wins and have not had many key players due to injury and a suspension (no excuses but a fact) and have been Underdogs in every game. Why do you continue to hold coaches so accountable as to say they are not doing their jobs ?

 

I don't know about you but I see a much different attitude on Sundays. I see players fighting and giving much more energy/effort than ever before. I see young players stepping in when called on due to so many injuries and doing a pretty darn good job. Again something I can't say I've seen much of in the past. This tells me the players BELIEVE!

 

You say "I am for waiting for Scot to make the decision on our next step, because I believe he knows how to win."

 

Great I agree and I say allow him to get the right players and allow the coaches to develop them (which we have seen much improvement with these young players stepping up this season) more so than ever...That has to be a little credit to Jay and his staff right? This my friend is a winning formula (not saying it will work) but I do say it's the right track. Patience is key(something this organization has not had) not knee jerk reactions with a sub par team with multiple injuries with key players. Give it some time, I understand we the fans want to win so bad we can taste it. It has been a miserable 2 decades and sometimes when you clean up a mess it gets a little worse before it's better! We must allow the process to play out and having knee jerk reactions has been proven not to be a winning formula. So the biggest KEY to a winning Redskins is for now to be a little patient and watch this team grow and learn how to be winners while having some STABILITY for once with key football people in place.  

 

Like someone said you can't make chicken salad with chicken sh*t and you sure don't fire the cook over and over because of it.

 

So that's how I say we make this team a winner(it's how all winning organization operate, lets try it for once) and i don't expect it overnight.

HTTR!! 

[hailmary]

I guess TAB went missing in action? Anyways go Skins!!