elkabong82 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Lol, you mean I'm focusing on what I actually said rather then what you misquoted me as saying then proceeded to argue about? A lot and too much mean different things. Sean Payton was mentioned and I didn't respond because the poster wasn't addressing my point. AND btw the circumstances are not the same (1) Doug Marrone had more NFL experience and more coaching experience in total then McVay (2) Even if Sean Payton and Marrone have the same relationship as Gruden and McVay; Gruden still more on his plate because McVay, the co-offensive coordinator, is also the QBs coach and Sean Payton had Pete Carmichael Jr. as a dedicated QBs coach. And in that set-up Sean Payton still had a lot on his plate because as a rookie HC he was wearing more hats then typical. I'm not addressing defense because its has nothing to do with my point. I'm not going to argue YOUR points. Gruden not doing something that other HC don't do either doesn't reduce his responsiblities. Its a spurious, false, fake, off topic, unrelated, specious, counterfeit, psuedo argument, strawman. Same goes for personnel. Gruden doesn't run cut the grass in Ashburn so does that reduce his responsibilities? C'mon. Citing all those example as to why you believe Gruden won't have too much on his plate is great. It really is. Its also not a response to my statement. Because as you know... Let us put this minor disagreement to rest with a simple question. Compared to the other HCs currently in the NFL does first year HC/Playcaller/Co-Offensive Coordinator/QB Guru Jay Gruden have more or less roles then typical? I can't fully answer your last question because you've already decided that defense and personnel roles for a HC aren't relevant. You've completely dismissed those responsibilities that I brought up with Gruden. But hey, I'll try 1 more time. Gruden will be HC. Gruden will not be involved much at all with the defense, nor with personnel, so his responsibilities in comparison to other NFL coaches are already reduced. Gruden has already said he'll be leaning on Haslett for assistance in HC stuff so that reduces it a bit further. Gruden is taking on OC duties, but is sharing with McVay and bringing him along. I believe the focus on O will allow for Gruden to be playcaller and groom McVay as OC, especially since it stands to reason that as the season progresses, McVay's role as OC will expand thus taking even more of the load off Gruden's shoulders. Really, it boils down to this: Is having 2 guys for HC, OC, and QB coach too much responsibility, or should there be 3 guys like most NFL teams have? IMO, due to Gruden's responsibilities being almost exclusively with offense, due to McVay's brightness, understanding of Gruden's philosophy, and of offense in general, and due to the familiarity with Hilliard, same with Byner if he comes here, and Foerster knowing the blocking scheme, no, I don't think it will be too much. There are assistants there as well who can help carry the load. Current NFL teams that have an OC who is also a position coach: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_National_Football_League_staffs Bills, Patriots, Titans it's rumored new OC will also be QBs, Chargers, Lions, Packers, Saints may do the same, Dallas' OC also does OL, so does Bears OC, so does Arizona. There are also several other teams with incomplete staffs so we don't know what will happen with them. So having an OC who is also a position coach is not an uncommon thing in the NFL, though obviously majority have just 1 role. McVay IMO there is some concern with him having a lot on the plate. He'll be groomed as OC and also be QB coach. My assumption is because it will give Gruden a more direct line to the QB and because he trusts the rest of the offensive coaches to do their roles right and thus reduce the scope of his focus. McVay is a bright young mind, but Jay is putting a lot of trust in him to be an OC and handle QB coaching as well. I like McVay's potential based on reports and interviews, though. But, his dual role as OC and QB coach is at least not unheard of in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Yeah, Dalton's awesome. And it's pretty impressive to turn a 4 college starter who's known for accuracy, intelligence, poise and work ethic and turn him into a mediocre pro QB who makes terrible decisions and folds under pressure. You make it seem like Dalton was a top prospect entering the draft. He was a 2nd round pick in a weak QB draft pool where Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, and Christian Ponder were taken ahead of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 You make it seem like Dalton was a top prospect entering the draft. He was a 2nd round pick in a weak QB draft pool where Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, and Christian Ponder were taken ahead of him. Or maybe you just need to work on your reading skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I can't fully answer your last question because you've already decided that defense and personnel roles for a HC aren't relevant. You've completely dismissed those responsibilities that I brought up with Gruden. But hey, I'll try 1 more time. Gruden will be HC. Gruden will not be involved much at all with the defense, nor with personnel, so his responsibilities in comparison to other NFL coaches are already reduced. [<-----False very few offensive minded HCs are involved with the defense much or at all, most NFL coaches are not directly involved in personnel. Your points here in no way diminish Grudes responsibilities compared to most other NFL coaches] Really, it boils down to this: Is having 2 guys for HC, OC, and QB coach too much responsibility, or should there be 3 guys like most NFL teams have? <-----------You admit my point right here. If most NFL teams have 3 guys for those roles then having 2 guys means those 2 guys have a lot on their plate] IMO, due to Gruden's responsibilities being almost exclusively with offense, due to McVay's brightness, understanding of Gruden's philosophy, and of offense in general, and due to the familiarity with Hilliard, same with Byner if he comes here, and Foerster knowing the blocking scheme, no, I don't think it will be too much. [<---Lol, again Not the question I asked] There are assistants there as well who can help carry the load........... ..........So having an OC who is also a position coach is not an uncommon thing in the NFL, though obviously majority have just 1 role.[Having an OC that is BOTH a first time OC and a first time QBs coach is uncommon] McVay IMO there is some concern with him having a lot on the plate.[Logically, IF McVay has a lot on his plate then how can Jay Gruden not? Who else is gonna pick up McVay's lack?] He'll be groomed as OC and also be QB coach.[Who is gonna groom him in these new roles?] My assumption is because it will give Gruden a more direct line to the QB and because he trusts the rest of the offensive coaches to do their roles right and thus reduce the scope of his focus.[it doesn't reduce his role at all because EVERY HC that has an established i.e (non-first time OC/QBs coach) staff trusts ALL their coaches including the Playcaller and OC and QBs coach to their roles] McVay is a bright young mind, but Jay is putting a lot of trust in him to be an OC and handle QB coaching as well. I like McVay's potential based on reports and interviews, though. But, his dual role as OC and QB coach is at least not unheard of in the NFL. Lol, you know...just forget it. You're not even answering the question I'm asking you. There is no need to continue this any further. Objectively speaking Jay Gruden does have more on his plate then other HCs. Most HCs have maybe 1 additional coaching role as Playcaller or as QB Guru but Jay Gruden has 3: Playcaller/chief-Offensive Coordinator/works with the QBs. -Cheers and farewell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Lol, you know...just forget it. You're not even answering the questions I'm asking you Yeah, it's annoying when the other person ignores most of what you say. McVay will be groomed as OC, with his responsibilities growing as the season goes on, which therefor means Gruden's will decrease as the season goes on. Let's not forget that although it was UFL, Gruden does at least have some HC experience. Sean Payton his first season as HC also mentored Marrone in the OC role while he also ran the OL (McVay has same amount of NFL coaching experience as Marrone going in) and also called plays. If McVay is as bright as everyone says, he should be fine, otherwise Gruden would have simply hired a QB coach, they aren't very expensive. So while the set-up isn't the norm, Saints were just fine doing it, other coaches have taken on extra roles while bringing along young coordinators, and given McVay's rep I'm not concerned, though obviously it's understandable to be concerned. Gruden does have extra things to do, but I believe given everything I've mentioned that he'll be able to handle it. Frankly, given that it's a new offense being introduced and RG3 is the focal point, I think Gruden's level of involvement there is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallen5862 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2014/01/23/redskins-add-assistant-offensive-line-coach-shane-day/ Redskins add assistant offensive line coach Shane Day The Washington Redskins on Thursday added another member to Jay Gruden’s staff, signing Shane Day to serve as assistant offensive line coach, a person familiar with the situation confirmed. Day spent the last two seasons as Connecticut’s quarterbacks coach, and prior to that, coached the Chicago Bears’ quarterbacks for two seasons. Day replaces Chris Morgan, whom Gruden dismissed last week. Day will work under offensive line coach Chris Foerster, who enters his fifth season with the Redskins, and 21st in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormy Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Day seems like an unusual hire as an asst OL coach, given that he apparently has no history of coaching or playing anything close to the position. I know it can be somewhat customary to hire a coach you like just to get him in the door and to get experience at a new position, but by the same token, at some juncture it's nice to have some experienced members of your staff coaching areas of familiarity. On the offensive side of the ball, we now have a first time head coach, a first time OC, a first time OC also handling the QB coach position for the first time, and now an asst OL coach whose never been in this position. Young and hungry is great, but this is a pretty inexperienced staff on the offensive side of the ball it would seem. Maybe I'm wrong about that, and these guys are more interchangeable, and this is more routine, than I realize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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