Forbath, Royster, Others Inactive Vs. Packers

[jdhawk4skins]

Btw - The Skins have in fact been running the zone read with RG3. I know I read they ran it 6 times against the Eagles and I still can't find that report but will post it when I do. Below is from John Keim who reported examples of the zone read being used against the Packers. The difference is that RG3 has run it much less due to very little opportunity to do so and what I believe is the fact teams are blitzing the run. So the comments that RG3 is not running 100% of the offense is looking more and more like rumor.

 Want to know the difference a half-second makes? You saw it early in the third quarter on a zone-read play-action pass. Earlier in the game, this action resulted in the linebackers taking 1.9 seconds to drop into their lanes -- and they were off when they got there. The first time the Redskins ran this action, Griffin delivered a strike to Pierre Garcon on a dig route for 18 yards. The left end hesitated on the rush and the linebackers not being in their lanes created a successful play. The next time, the linebackers dropped in 1.4 seconds. This time, Griffin threw a deep out for Garcon that would have been completed had the 'backer not dropped to tip it away

.

Two plays later, Griffin made a terrific play in the pocket, which had been considerably squeezed after a zone-read fake. But I loved how Griffin kept his eyes downfield as the space tightened (center Will Montgomery, who had a tough, tough day, was driven back). Griffin slid, stepped up and hit Garcon on a dig for 18 yards

 

When the Redskins ran the zone-read option, Griffin did not have a choice to make. The Packers blitzed the linebacker right at him both times, forcing Griffin to hand off. There were times it looked like a zone read, but was likely a handoff the whole way.
 

[jdhawk4skins]

It is true there is a difference between physical readiness and mental readiness. There is also a difference between physically not yet there because of health and physically not there because of conditioning. My point about RG3 is that he needs time to get himself mentally confident in his repaired knee and physically conditioned to get back to where he was. IMO, you can't do that by sitting the guy on the bench. I just don't see any evidence from my end that RG3 is being handled with "kid gloves". Both games started out bad and in a hurry. It changed the game plans and RG3 is not the most to blame for the early leads. The team needed our defense and running game to help carry the load for RG3 until he gets his timing down with the WRs and regains confidence in his legs. Neither group has done that in the 1st half. As a result RG3 has had to carry most the load in the 2nd.
Yes, Adrian Peterson is a RB and not a QB which means AP had to put more on his knee at that position than RG3 needs to at his. So, the fact that AP didn't really show to be full strength until game 7 should give some hope that it won't take as long for RG3. As for the win/loss ratio, I don't see that being relevant unless you are blaming RG3 for the loses which I disagree about. Benching RG3 IMO doesn’t change the outcome of the win/lost from the last two games or the ones ahead.

[Ken Linkins]

OK, we will not re-sign Pat White this week as Forbath will not test his leg until Friday but IMO it does not matter who is kicking. Right now our problem is with the Defense, 100%. They are not yet playing together as a unit. Add to that poor tackling and you get two "blow outs" in a row. We have 3 rookies on the field, A OLB who is playing like a rookie (Orakpo) a ILB who's age is showing, a one armed DE and 2 vet CB's who get beat way to often. We do not make any real adjustments until halftime. Maybe our DC need to get out of the booth where coach Shanny can "face to face" him before the game gets out of hand. This Yo Yo of good play / bad play has got to stop. In reviewing the film, I see very few who our doing their job. This defense is getting beat like a rented mule! No NFL QB is going to win with this kind of effort from the Defensive unit.

[Ken Linkins]

Btw - The Skins have in fact been running the zone read with RG3. I know I read they ran it 6 times against the Eagles and I still can't find that report but will post it when I do. Below is from John Keim who reported examples of the zone read being used against the Packers. The difference is that RG3 has run it much less due to very little opportunity to do so and what I believe is the fact teams are blitzing the run. So the comments that RG3 is not running 100% of the offense is looking more and more like rumor.

I have even seen the Defense swap pass rush DE/OLB to other side (away from the Read Option) in order to use a run stopper on the Read Option side. Teams are forcing the "read" by keeping the DE/OLB outside of RG3. You can beat this by swapping the RB to the other side but it will cause RG3 to use his right leg to cut which IMO we are trying to avoid. But when you are down 3 TD's the defense does not care where you line up as they are just going to be coming after you.

[jdhawk4skins]

Keeping the subject on defensive woes; has anyone else noticed how poorly Stephan Bowens has played in both games? He is not only failing to get any pressure, he is also not consuming blocks and on the line and is getting pushed back. This is making that side of our defense the most vulnerable right now.

[goskins10]

Keeping the subject on defensive woes; has anyone else noticed how poorly Stephan Bowens has played in both games? He is not only failing to get any pressure, he is also not consuming blocks and on the line and is getting pushed back. This is making that side of our defense the most vulnerable right now.

 

I said last year that missing Adam Carriker was a bigger deal than rak. I think we are seeing that this year.

[jdhawk4skins]

I said last year that missing Adam Carriker was a bigger deal than rak. I think we are seeing that this year.

It is certainly hard to disagree with you at this point. I alwys felt Adam consumed more blockers than anyone else on our line. He was really starting to come into his own before the injury. I do miss the guy and read a report on him recently. He is still putting in 8-10 hours a day on his recovery which is why the Redskins have chosen not to release him. However, Bowen's play of late seems uncharacteristic. He has been a quality DE for us since we acquired him. According to PFF even Baker is not looking too well statistically but playing DE is not his natural position.

 

Correction: Kedrick Golston was the one ranked low and that is his natural position. He is #29 among 3-4 DEs while Bowen is next to last at #49. Golston was always at best a quality backup and we need Jenkins to return strong from his suspension. Rob Jackson will also be a nice change of pace for Orakpo who doesn't seem to be covering the run well at all.

[goskins10]

I have been trying to wrap my head around this state of affairs. Let me be very clear, I am not ready to hit the panic button and am certainly not ready to give up on the season. 

 

Having said that, while I could live with loss to philly (new O to play against, RGIII no preseason, several rookies on D), I expected at least to see some improvement from week 1 to week 2. But instead we regressed! And yes the D has been horrendous. But there is enough blame to go around. The Off has been abysmal when the game has been still in doubt. It's only when we are 3 or 4 TDs behind tat we start moving the ball. 

 

Last week there was no phase of the game that we played well. This after what should have been an embarrassing loss. 

 

As early as it is, the Lions game is the season. Sorry, but the data shows 0-3 teams do not make the playoffs. Only 3 teams in the entire history of football! IMO no playoffs is a failure unless it's say 9-7 and we lose a tie breaker. The need to figure this thing out this weekend! And the Lions are no push over. Bush should have a field day. We have no answer that I see for him. He and stafford can play pitch and catch all day. 

 

Thier D line is very disruptive. Our Oline is going to have to play at a very high level. The sad part is we have the talent. We should beat the kitty cats with ease. Let's see what happens Sunday. 

 

Prediction - If we are 0-4 at the bye, there will be a major shake-up in the coaches, something like Haslett being fired. Dan has been very patient. If I were him right now I would be furious. 

[jdhawk4skins]

 As early as it is, the Lions game is the season. Sorry, but the data shows 0-3 teams do not make the playoffs. Only 3 teams in the entire history of football! IMO no playoffs is a failure unless it's say 9-7 and we lose a tie breaker. The need to figure this thing out this weekend! And the Lions are no push over. Bush should have a field day. We have no answer that I see for him. He and stafford can play pitch and catch all day

I'm not sure about the Lions game being the season for us. Many 0-3 teams in the past didn't have 4 teams in the division looking this bad so early. Right now we are only 1 game behind and all teams but the Giants have a challenging match up this Sunday. So we could very well still be one game out at 0-3. It is certainly not something I want but I'll take it at this point if that scenario plays out. I still think this can be a very good football team down the stretch. RG3 looked better in the 2nd game than the 1st. He didn't shine but still improved in both his mechanics and accuracy. Our offensive tackles have done really well protecting RG3 and Lich actually had a great game himself so maybe he is back 100% since returning from the ACL injury. Again falling behind hurt our running game and this blitzing on our run game that teams are putting on us out of the gate will start to backfire. RG3 will make teams pay soon. AM looked sharp on his runs he was given and had two really big ones. Reed is a force to reckon with and looks to have taking over for Fred Davis. These are not many positives but I hope we can build on the ones we have.

Also, Bush has a knee injury and is not currently guaranteed to be playing this week.

The biggest question is will we overcome these coverage and tackling issues?

[jdhawk4skins]

 Prediction - If we are 0-4 at the bye, there will be a major shake-up in the coaches, something like Haslett being fired. Dan has been very patient. If I were him right now I would be furious.

Will Haslett be the one to be fired or Raheem Morris? The biggest issues lie in our secondary in both coverage and tackling. Much of the coverage issue has come from miscommunication. However we are starting two rookies in this area and growing pains should be expected. Raheem is responsible for getting the DBs ready to play and not Haslet. Now if the problem really lies in play calling putting players out of position then I could see this being a problem where Haslett may be fired. We also have two underperforming defensive ends and a one armed NT. Maybe it isn't Raheem but I don't think there is a clear sign that it is on Haslett like many other fans out there are screaming over.

[Canadianfanforlife]

No, what ruined the old format was this guy who flame the fires of trolldom. Yeah, maybe I shouldn't have called him that. I welcome different points of views and it's boring if everyone thought the same but this guy doesn't operate off of having a different opinion...he wants to spew his hate through illogical acquisations and then wants everyone to take time to explaining things to him therefore tying up the whole thread. Are you kidding? That's all this guy wants is a fight, you can easily see with his posts. Canada, your a good guy but you're talking to the wrong guy. HTTR!!

HAIL MANCHILD157!

 

I don't want it to seem like I was trying to tell you what to do. That's not my style. Maybe it's a character flaw of mine or maybe it's a Canadian thing, I don't know, but I like to try & keep the peace. I agree that he's antagonistic, trying to get his point across by brute force, but I would HATE to see what happend to the old format happen with this one. I believe that now with the mediators watching us he won't be able to get away with the things that he did in the past. You are one of my Redskin friends & I would hate to see you get in trouble because of somebody trying to antagonise you that's all.

 

HTTR!!!

OK, we will not re-sign Pat White this week as Forbath will not test his leg until Friday but IMO it does not matter who is kicking. Right now our problem is with the Defense, 100%. They are not yet playing together as a unit. Add to that poor tackling and you get two "blow outs" in a row. We have 3 rookies on the field, A OLB who is playing like a rookie (Orakpo) a ILB who's age is showing, a one armed DE and 2 vet CB's who get beat way to often. We do not make any real adjustments until halftime. Maybe our DC need to get out of the booth where coach Shanny can "face to face" him before the game gets out of hand. This Yo Yo of good play / bad play has got to stop. In reviewing the film, I see very few who our doing their job. This defense is getting beat like a rented mule! No NFL QB is going to win with this kind of effort from the Defensive unit.

HAIL KEN LINKINS!

 

So that begs the questions....is it the D coordinator? Is it the 3-4 D? Is it the players themselves? or is it all of the above?

 

HTTR!!!

[goskins10]

Will Haslett be the one to be fired or Raheem Morris? The biggest issues lie in our secondary in both coverage and tackling. Much of the coverage issue has come from miscommunication. However we are starting two rookies in this area and growing pains should be expected. Raheem is responsible for getting the DBs ready to play and not Haslet. Now if the problem really lies in play calling putting players out of position then I could see this being a problem where Haslett may be fired. We also have two underperforming defensive ends and a one armed NT. Maybe it isn't Raheem but I don't think there is a clear sign that it is on Haslett like many other fans out there are screaming over.

 

Fair enough. My prediction was more that something would happen not so much who. You make a good point about Morris, he would certainly be on the chopping block. You could argue the secondary is the prime reason for the defensive woes. I think it was you who posted an excerpt from Rogers saying after getting sacked a few times with a standard drop back they were going to a 3 step and release as the receivers were having no problem getting separation and the rest of the team could not tackle (not the exact words, but the general idea). It worked! 

 

I am typically one of the more polly anna people but my polly has just about anna'ed out! This team should have deep playoff aspirations. While we could still have a decent season (8-8, 9-7) at 0-3, any kind of deep run is very unlikely and the season is starting to feel like the previous 19 before last year, not a return to solid contender as we all felt we were ready to be. 

 

Along with the previous rant though, I will say in more quite moments I also realize this was the intent of mr goodell and mr. mara when they slapped us with $36M in illegal fines. That's 3 to 4 true starters, say 2 pro-bowl FA safeties and a legitimate RT. 

[goskins10]

From Canadianfanforlife:  

 

HAIL KEN LINKINS!

 

So that begs the questions....is it the D coordinator? Is it the 3-4 D? Is it the players themselves? or is it all of the above?

 

HTTR!!!

 

 

Hail Canada! 

 

It's not the style of D. Both styles can be successful if executed properly and you have the right personnel. For us it's purely execution. To me that's both coaching and the players. When the entire side of the ball is not performing though I have to look at the coaches. If it's a player here or a player there, I tend to look more at the players. But that's just me. In this case it's the entire side of the ball. 

 

Either way they have exactly 4 more days to figure it out. While I was admittedly was a bit over dramatic in saying a loss to detroit was the season, there must be marked improvement. We cannot have a third pathetic performance in a row to start the season or IMO we are looking at 4-12, 5-11 team, especially if we then also lose to oakland and hit the bye at 0-4. 

 

Sorry, I am just not feeling real good about this. It rips my heart out to see us play like this. We and they (meaning the players) need and deserve better! 

[jdhawk4skins]

Meriweather is back to limited practice and appears to have passed the concussion test. This is good news so maybe we'll see Meriweather on the field for more than one half Sunday. I'd be happy if he gives us 3 quarters this time around. http://www.csnwashington.com/football-washington-redskins/talk/meriweather-limited-drill-work-practice

[Ken Linkins]

From Canadianfanforlife:  

 

HAIL KEN LINKINS!

 

So that begs the questions....is it the D coordinator? Is it the 3-4 D? Is it the players themselves? or is it all of the above?

 

HTTR!!!

 

 

Hail Canada! 

 

It's not the style of D. Both styles can be successful if executed properly and you have the right personnel. For us it's purely execution. To me that's both coaching and the players. When the entire side of the ball is not performing though I have to look at the coaches. If it's a player here or a player there, I tend to look more at the players. But that's just me. In this case it's the entire side of the ball. 

 

Either way they have exactly 4 more days to figure it out. While I was admittedly was a bit over dramatic in saying a loss to detroit was the season, there must be marked improvement. We cannot have a third pathetic performance in a row to start the season or IMO we are looking at 4-12, 5-11 team, especially if we then also lose to oakland and hit the bye at 0-4. 

 

Sorry, I am just not feeling real good about this. It rips my heart out to see us play like this. We and they (meaning the players) need and deserve better! 

There does seem to be some kind of disconnect between our DC and DB coach. The read I picked up on is that when we blitz our 3 CB's go into "chase" mode, trying to cut in front of the quick slants/button hooks or outs BUT the WR's seem to go to plan B which is to run Post or Flags and the QB throws a touch pass over our DB, then it is off to the races trying to tackle from behind and our Safety often overshoots the play because we have Blitzed one or lowered one into the box and have poor angles. Even when we do not blitz, our DB's seem to sit down waiting on the WR to make a move then "track" them, it is not a pure a "man" cover, we have LB and Safety playing "float zones" trying to fall into patterns. These are all 4-3 defensive styles with a 4 man rush that keeps 7 guys covering, but if you blitz as much as we do from a 3-4 it removes 1,2 or 3 cover guys (less for the QB to be concerned with when floating a pass). We are using a gambling style trying to get QB's to make mistakes, so far this year Mr. Rogers and Mr. Vick have build big, fast leads beating our gamble. The part I am trying to understand better right now is why we can not stop a running attack early. That is just "will power" of your LB's and D-line to get off blocks, which we have not done well at all.