***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

[Ozymandias]

No joke, in 5 years or so, Giannis Antetokuompo will be one of the 10 best players in the league.

Who dat?

[RonArtest15]

Who dat?

 

 

Da future....

[Ozymandias]

Judging from that gif alone, dude looks like a carbon copy of Durant. The way he ran, and the way he's built. I've never seen him play.

 

Da future....

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

He's 19 and raw as raw can be. I don't know if he is going to be Top Five in the league, but he could definitely be some kind of combo of Ibaka and Deng. A rangy three with insane athleticism.

[JoeWolf990]

No joke, in 5 years or so, Giannis Antetokuompo will be one of the 10 best players in the league. 

yeah, he has the highest ceiling of anyone in this draft class, and the only one who could be a superstar.

 

apparently he could end up a 7 footer too. He grew an inch since draft night.

 

Greek Freak

Edited January 13, 2014 by JoeWolf990

[Going Commando]

I agree with LKB, he's totally raw. He's far away from being a big contributor on one of the worst teams in the league. Much less being a top ten player in the league. More than likely, he won't get there.

But the physical skill set is ridiculous and somewhat unique and gives him a very high ceiling if Milwaukee develops him. Most superstars have something that sets them apart physically, so Giannis has that going for him already.

He needs a snappy short nickname. Antetokounmpo is awful to type out.

[RonArtest15]

yeah, he has the highest ceiling of anyone in this draft class, and the only one who could be a superstar.

 

apparently he could end up a 7 footer too. He grew an inch since draft night.

 

Greek Freak

 

Offense still has a ways to go, but he's a night mare to match up against defensively.  Like you said, he might end up being 7 feet.  Scary.  Good foresight by the Bucks to pick him up.  I remember during the draft process hearing about him.  THere were debates about where exactly he would end up...some even suggesting the 2nd round due to the competition he was going up against over in Europe. 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I agree with LKB, he's totally raw. He's far away from being a big contributor on one of the worst teams in the league. Much less being a top ten player in the league. More than likely, he won't get there.

But the physical skill set is ridiculous and somewhat unique and gives him a very high ceiling if Milwaukee develops him. Most superstars have something that sets them apart physically, so Giannis has that going for him already.

He needs a snappy short nickname. Antetokounmpo is awful to type out.

 

He has that: The Greek Freak.

[JoeWolf990]

Offense still has a ways to go, but he's a night mare to match up against defensively.  Like you said, he might end up being 7 feet.  Scary.  Good foresight by the Bucks to pick him up.  I remember during the draft process hearing about him.  THere were debates about where exactly he would end up...some even suggesting the 2nd round due to the competition he was going up against over in Europe. 

if you are the Bucks, and you see what you have with this dude and you end up with the #1 pick... who do you take?

 

Id consider Embiid, but I think Wiggins would be good too because of their length and athleticism. That would be a nightmare to go against for any backcourt.

 

Greek Freak plays 2 guard too.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

if you are the Bucks, and you see what you have with this dude and you end up with the #1 pick... who do you take?

 

Id consider Embiid, but I think Wiggins would be good too because of their length and athleticism. That would be a nightmare to go against for any backcourt.

 

Greek Freak plays 2 guard too.

 

Embiid is kind of raw too. I don't know if I want to develop two guys that raw at once. I think Embiid might be the best player in the end. I think Parker might be the safest pick.

 

Put Parker at the 4 with the Freak at the three, get a decent defensive big man and I think that's a nightmare to match-up with going forward. (I know Parker is listed as a 3, but he's going to end up around 250 before he is said and done, I bet. And you can always move him to the 3 and the Greek to the 2 and for stretches at a time and drive defenses nuts).

Edited January 13, 2014 by Lombardi's_kid_brother

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

By the way, the worst thing you can do is NOT draft someone because you think you have a starter at that position already. Unless the player you have pegged into that spot is Lebron James, you pick talent - not a position. Cleveland got trapped by this logic and ended up with Anthony Bennett. They decided that Dion Waiters and Tristan Thompson were future stars and didn't want to duplicate their talents.

[JoeWolf990]

Embiid is kind of raw too. I don't know if I want to develop two guys that raw at once. I think Embiid might be the best player in the end. I think Parker might be the safest pick.

 

Put Parker at the 4 with the Freak at the three, get a decent defensive big man and I think that's a nightmare to match-up with going forward. (I know Parker is listed as a 3, but he's going to end up around 250 before he is said and done, I bet. And you can always move him to the 3 and the Greek to the 2 and for stretches at a time and drive defenses nuts).

Parker is a classic 3, not a 4. He doesnt have the length or strength to be a 4. Could play stretch 4, like Melo, but Parker is a 3. You put Parker at the 4, and he turns into guys like Beasely and Derrick Williams

 

With Wiggins, you have two guys who could play the 2 and 3 and be like Pippen/Jordan on defense with their length and athleticism. Thats the matchup nightmare.

[JoeWolf990]

By the way, the worst thing you can do is NOT draft someone because you think you have a starter at that position already. Unless the player you have pegged into that spot is Lebron James, you pick talent - not a position. Cleveland got trapped by this logic and ended up with Anthony Bennett. They decided that Dion Waiters and Tristan Thompson were future stars and didn't want to duplicate their talents.

in fairness, Cleveland's issue is that they drafted the wrong players.

[RonArtest15]

if you are the Bucks, and you see what you have with this dude and you end up with the #1 pick... who do you take?

 

Id consider Embiid, but I think Wiggins would be good too because of their length and athleticism. That would be a nightmare to go against for any backcourt.

 

Greek Freak plays 2 guard too.

 

I'd take Embiid or Wiggins.  Probably dangle Larry Sanders and try to get another lottery pick out of it.  However, if Sanders can get his head right, having both him and Embiid on the roster is a good problem to have. 

in fairness, Cleveland's issue is that they drafted the wrong players.

 

Starting to look like the Wizards fall in the same category as well....I'd honestly trust the scouting of a lot of people in here over EG. 

[Going Commando]

If I had gotten to say who to draft, the Wizards would have gotten Bismack Biyombo in 2011, Thomas Robinson in 2012, and probably still Otto Porter or maybe Nerlens Noel in 2013.

To me the most exciting player on the Bucks is John Henson. I'm surprised he doesn't get more credit. I watched a ton of him at UNC and I always had that sneaking feeling he was better than Barnes. But I didn't expect him to be as good as he is, or for it to come this quickly. That dude is a beast on the glass and can make a huge impact defensively. He's better than Larry Sanders IMO and the Bucks messed up giving Sanders that big contract instead of looking to Henson.

Between Henson and Giannis, I don't think the Bucks need another forward. I also have serious doubts about taking Parker over Wiggins or Embiid. Counter intuitive, but I think the best thing for the Bucks might be to end up with the fourth or fifth pick and have to "settle" for Marcus Smart.

[JoeWolf990]

I'd take Embiid or Wiggins.  Probably dangle Larry Sanders and try to get another lottery pick out of it.  However, if Sanders can get his head right, having both him and Embiid on the roster is a good problem to have. 

 

Starting to look like the Wizards fall in the same category as well....I'd honestly trust the scouting of a lot of people in here over EG.

Id get rid of Sanders and go with Henson and Embiid. That would be the best defensive frontline in the NBA within 3 years, barring injuries. But since Embiid is a rookie contract, you could keep Sanders around and then let Henson and Embiid develop.

 

If I had gotten to say who to draft, the Wizards would have gotten Bismack Biyombo in 2011, Thomas Robinson in 2012, and probably still Otto Porter or maybe Nerlens Noel in 2013.

You mean at the time? because I wouldnt touch Robinson with a 100 foot pole lol.

At the time tho? yeah probably. But the orgs are supposed to be smarter than us. EG and crew are not.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Between Henson and Giannis, I don't think the Bucks need another forward. I also have serious doubts about taking Parker over Wiggins or Embiid. Counter intuitive, but I think the best thing for the Bucks might be to end up with the fourth or fifth pick and have to "settle" for Marcus Smart.

 

Parker just seems to be the most obvious "He is going to make six or seven All Star teams" guy in the draft. I think Embiid has the potential to be dominant, but I would be a chicken-**** general manager and would never want to roll the dice with a #1 overall. Embiid seems the riskiest bet among the potential top picks.

 

In all honesty, I think I would like the #2 or #3 pick in this draft and have some of the work done for me. I would have no problem taking Embiid #2 overall. Then - if he busted - I could lie and say "After _____ was taken, we decided to go with the player we thought had the most potential......" I probably wouldn't get fired for that.

 

I think that out of this draft either Parker or Randle will end up rookie of the year - though a big part of me thinks that if Smart ends up in the right situation, he could win the award. Embiid could end up the guy who wins several titles down the road. Wiggins might end a really good starter or a dude who goes fourth and ends up embarrassing the three times who passed over him.

 

By the way, once you click on this link, your production for the day is over:

 

http://espn.go.com/nba/lottery2014/mockdraft

By the way, Brooklyn is two back of the Wizards for the freaking 6th seed now. The East should really just be shut down.

[Destino]

Are the new NCAA rules having any impact on how good some of these player look offensively? 

 

Looking at the guys projected to come out in this draft I can't stop thinking about just how much better this class is than last years.  Last years first round could be this years second round and it wouldn't look as crazy as it should.  

[JoeWolf990]

Wiggins will be the best player in this draft, after Embiid. 100 sure of that.

Wiggins will be like Vince Carter in that he looks a lot better after leaving college.

Edited January 13, 2014 by JoeWolf990

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Are the new NCAA rules having any impact on how good some of these player look offensively? 

 

Looking at the guys projected to come out in this draft I can't stop thinking about just how much better this class is than last years.  Last years first round could be this years second round and it wouldn't look as crazy as it should.  

 

I just think that this class was so hyped up, the only story to write was "Are they not as good as advertised?"

 

The one thing to really consider is that none of the "stars" are really playing in situations where their coach is going to allow them to freelance and put up highlights. (Here's a question: Has any one player ever really looked like a superstar while playing for Bill Self?)

 

It's only January and we are dealing with 18 year olds here. It's not like any of these guys have been "bad."

 

Parker is a 19.5/7.6 guy who shoots 40 percent from three.

 

Wiggins just put up 22 against a top 25 team. And he is playing for a team that seems to have been fighting itself all year.

 

And Embiid - on the same team - looks the way an 18 year old center should look. The two numbers that really matter are 66 percent and 67 percent - his shooting percentages (FG and FT). 

 

Randle is putting up 17 and 11 on yet another team still figuring it out.

 

With so many good teams starting so many Freshmen these days, it's almost impossible to get a sense of any team or player until the conference tournaments start.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Lombardi's_kid_brother

[Going Commando]

I think Wiggins ends up being the best player from the class too. He's so athletic. The only question is if he has that will to dominate, which I don't think we can know from where we sit.

To me he's like a 6'8 Derrick Rose.

[Going Commando]

Wiggins went for 17 points and 19 rebounds last night. That's unexpected.

He's got such a compelling skill set. I take him first. Embiid second. Parker third. You've got to swing for the fences at the top of the draft. Wiggins has an unbelievable ceiling. The game is way to easy when you move faster and jump higher than everyone else.

BTW, LKB I can't ever remember a player putting up superstar numbers for Bill Self. Self recruited Deron Williams at Illinois but didn't really get a lot out of him as a freshman.

Next his best player was Wayne Simien at Kansas--not a legit NBA talent, but a great college player: 17.8 and 9.3 on 53% shooting his first year, then 20.3 and 11 on 55% shooting.

After Simien, you have the Brandon Rush and Mario Chalmers teams. Solid NBA role players, not super productive that 05-06 season, averaging 13.5 and 11.5 respectively. But on efficient mid to upper .400 shooting, and Rush shot 47% from three. The year after that it was Rush and Chalmers again plus Julian Wright, Darrell Arthur, and Sherron Collins. Rush was the high scorer with 13.8 points, pretty modest. But again, very high efficiency offensive play from all of them. Julian Wright was a bit of a draft bust. Arthur was a quality role player in Memphis for a while and Collins bounced around the league a bit. This group minus Wright but plus Darnell Jackson goes on to win the championship the next year. But again, the individual numbers are very modest in volume but high in efficiency--Rush was the high scorer once again with 13.3 PPG.

Next year you get a new group, Sherron Collins and Cole Aldrich leading a fairly mediocre Kansas team. Collins scored 18.9 PPG and Aldrich put up 15 & 11. But Collins wasn't very efficient. Tyshawn Taylor and the Morris twins were freshman this season.

The next year was a similar group and they had a great team but got upset early in the tourney so it ended in disappointment. Still Collins leading the team in scoring at 15 a game. The Morris twins and Tyshawn Taylor got a lot more run and Xavier Henry made an immediate impact. Good team, some future quality NBA role players in the Morris twins, but no stars. Thomas Robinson and Jeff Withey get very little run as freshmen.

Next year was another excellent season, they finish ranked #2. The Morris twins star, Marcus averages 17.2 and 7.6 and Markieff averages 13.6 and 8.3. Both shoot 57% or better from the floor, absurd efficiency. Not really spectacular volume numbers though, which is characteristic of Bill Self's best players. TRob and Withey and Josh Selby are the young guys still, and don't play much. The Morris twins declare for the draft.

The next year is the first year where I think you get something resembling a superstar college player from a Self team with TRob. He averages 17.7 and 11.9 on .505 shooting from the floor. Finishes second to Anthony Davis in most POTY considerations. Leads his team on an improbable run to the finals before coming up a little short to a way more talented Kentucky team with Davis and MKG. But even TRob only averaged around 17.7 PPG. Tyshawn Taylor averaged 16.6 PPG as a senior that year. Future NBA backup PG. TRob has been an unfortunate draft bust in just a season and a half so far.

Then finally last year it's Ben McLemore as a RS Freshman and Jeff Withey as a senior. McLemore averages a fairly modest 15.9 PPG but does it with terrific efficiency--shooting splits are an impressive .495/87%/.420. Withey is clearly a future NBA role player, but his averages of 13.9, 8.5, and 3.6 blocks are respectable.

So to answer your question, no, there has never been a high volume scoring star player for Self. Only one 20 PPG scorer. Only true POTY candidate was TRob. Nick Collison played for Roy Williams.

Also, TRob is the highest drafted Self player at #5 overall. McLemore is next at #8 overall. Self called McLemore the most talented player he'd ever coached, and considering he only coached Deron Williams for his freshman season, with small usage, he was probably right. I think McLemore is Self's only real shot at having put a future high caliber NBA starter before this year, though he's put out a lot of quality role players. Pretty mediocre NBA track record for a coach of Self's stature.

So Wiggins is the best recruit and biggest talent he's ever had, with only Embiid coming close. Wayne Selden isn't too far behind them. Self runs a very strict and controlled offense that produces low volume for his stars, but very high efficiency. That's the hallmark of his teams IMO.

So it isn't surprising that Wiggins is averaging 15.8 PPG and 6.3 RPG on .446 shooting form the floor. And in fact, that really puts Wiggins way ahead of what other true freshman players have done for Self. Same for Embiid. As far as I can tell, Wiggins is the most productive true freshman Self has coached, and Embiid isn't too far behind.

This is also an uncharacteristic Self team because of how young it is and how high the expectations were going into the year. His young teams have always had the acceptance that it was a transition year and the expectations were lower. Wiggins and Embiid are a different animal for Self.

Worth mentioning that Josh Selby and Xavier Henry are the only one and done players Self has coached. I wouldn't be shocked if Wiggins or Embiid or both stay at Kansas for next year.

Edited January 14, 2014 by stevemcqueen1

[JoeWolf990]

Embiid will be a better player than Wiggins, and I think Wiggins will be a superstar.

Wiggins had a great game, but Embiid was better. He has better footwork and understanding of the game than almost ever 5 in the league right now. He has better footwork and post moves than Dwight Howard. He not explosive, but he has a good second leap. The guy is not that raw at all.

Embiid is the #1 pick, barring injury.

Kansas' problem this season is bad point guard play.

Edited January 14, 2014 by JoeWolf990

[JoeWolf990]

it was clean too.

scored on a post up the very next play.

Edited January 14, 2014 by JoeWolf990

[Going Commando]

The way that gif loops, it looks like Embiid is passing it back to #22 on Iowa State after he blocks him.