Kobe joins the 30,000 point club: so where does he rank all-time now?

[JMS]

well I did say, "God forbid," I hope you dont. My point is that I dont know how I would react under questioning, and neither do you.

And dude, you are quoting a movie, this is real life.

Look, it's reasonable at times to act like a punk.. Especially in Kobe's case cause he was 18 when he came into the league..

The problem is he wasn't a kid when he blew up the championship team, he wasn't a kid when he raped that girl. or during his constant eruptions in the press.

These things don't make him a bad basketball player. But these things are definite negatives when trying to say he's one of the greatest of all time....

• His on the court statistics and awards don't support GOAT consideration.
  
• His off the court behavior doesn't support it.
  
• The way he approaches the game and his team doesn't support it.
  

Kobe Bryant is a great player... compare him to other 1 time MVP's though, not to other 5 time NBA Champions. I see him much more like an Isaiah Thomas than a Tim Duncan;

much less a Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, or Larry Bird.

[tone_dubbz]

honestly, I dont hold the telling on Shaq's affairs against Kobe. A) he was under stress over a rape charge. It made dude not think clearly, like it would for most others He probably never thought the conversation would be released C) Shaunie knew dude was cheating anyway. D) Kobe isnt a street dude.

There are a lot of things to get on Kobe Bryant the person over, but him being shook and telling about Shaq paying hoes off on the road is not one of them I ever got.

So, you win a couple of championships together. Your teammate is married with 3 children, has a family, an image to uphold and all that good stuff......then you put him on blast and air out his business when you get charged for rape!

The investigators didn't even ask him about Shaq, because he had absolutely nothing to do with Kobe banging some dirty white chick. He just freely and voluntarily ratted his boy out about his affairs to justify his own adultry. It takes a certain type of worm to do some ish like that. Doesn't matter if your hood or not.

All those excuses you pointed out still doesn't defend the sneaky aspects of his character.

Plus, if your dumb enough to go raw on some chick you just met when you have a wife at home then you deserve to get caught.

I mean other than that, yeah he can hoop.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

Second, Dwyane Wade at mid-range was an effective shooter. And really I don't care where the points come from as long as they are there. Again, in my argument you are guaranteed perfect health. If Wade took as many shots as Kobe, 30 ppg would be a given in his prime. Now, as I said earlier, if I'm starting a franchise, I take Kobe because as good as Wade is, his style makes him extremely injury prone. Way too injury prone.

and thats a mark against Wade.

I mean Gus Johnson was probably as great as Lebron was in his healthy prime, but no one mentions him for anything. In his health, Penny Hardaway probably would have been the player of this generation.

Grant Hill had a case too before the injuries.

Ralph Sampson could have changed the way we view 7 footers in the 1980s were it not for injuries.

And no, Kobe is still better than Wade. The fact that Kobe's athleticism and injuries (he has bad knees, and a jacked up fingers on his shooting hand) have also hurt him and he is still balling shows that Kobe's game has way more variety to it and he can still be a great player at 34 while Dwade has fallen off a cliff.

And Dwade's midrange game had one year where he was really good at it, but fell it fell off when Lebron came.

And please, Kobe's bread and butter is not in the post though he has a solid post game for his size, it's his ability to hold the ball and create space for a shot himself.

I didnt say Kobe's post game was his bread and butter? What I did say is that he is a very good post player, and was probably the best back to hte basket scorer in the NBA pound for pound until the Lakers went with the Gasol/Bynum pairing. You could never say that about Dwade.

Again, Wade in 2006 put the team on his back more than Kobe ever has had to do during a championship run in his 17 year career.

I would put Kobe's run in 2001 over Dwade's run where Kobe pillaged the Blazers, Kings, and Spurs. And particularly against the Spurs, Popovich said Kobe is the reason why they got destroyed. In fact Kobe is the guy Popovich always feared out West, not Shaq.

You could also put Kobe's 2008 run and 2009 run over Wade's 2006 run. Wade's run gets more highlight because... well I dont get why, tbh. Especially since he got a lot of referee help.

[Sticksboi05]

You could also put Kobe's 2008 run and 2009 run over Wade's 2006 run. Wade's run gets more highlight because... well I dont get why, tbh. Especially since he got a lot of referee help.

Because his Finals performance was absurd? Because his PER in the Finals was ridiculous. Because it was him, over the hill Shaq and a bunch of nobodies? Kobe was very very good during the 2001 playoff run, but again, it will always help having a prime Diesel to force teams to focus on. Wade was really the only guy to worry about on the 2006 Heat. Kobe's run in 2009 was more impressive given his age. Still not as good. Wade sealed the deal himself. In the 2009 Finals, the Lakers won because Perkins got hurt and Gasol just murdered Boston in the paint.

And yes Pop would say that since the only way you defend Shaq is having two of the greatest defensive big men ever on one team (aka Timmy and Admiral).

[Going Commando]

This thread went to a really weird place.