What degree of responsibility does the free market have for current U.S. economic woes?

[TimmySmith]

(with healthy and functioning regulation and oversight)

I think you have discovered something rarer than seeing Bigfoot RIDING the Loch Ness Monster.

[HailGreen28]

Has anybody ever had a free market?

How about anybody at a bazaar or farmer's market? This is a bad example in so many ways, but as a side effect of a bad situation, I bet trading goods in Somalia is truly "free" if there are cases where guys with guns aren't setting prices.

---------- Post added August-8th-2011 at 02:21 PM ----------

I think you have discovered something rarer than seeing Bigfoot RIDING the Loch Ness Monster.

This is probably debatable, but just tossing this out there:

UK health system is top on 'efficiency', says report

[panel]

How many of these bad businesses that are not hiring are still around because they were given bailout money? Maybe if they were allowed to fail, we would have seen fresh companies with new idea sprout up.

I feel bad for companies like Tesla Motors. A Truly innovative company that is trying to gain market share, with a new business mode. But when they get their chance to take a hold of the mainstream market when traditional Auto companies start to slip up and continue their wasteful tendencies (GM and Crystler), the government gives them 81 Billion in loans (45 Billion of which is still unpaid), more than 100 times the assets value of the young Tesla.

It should be no wonder why we aren't seeing the type of hiring that we like, because we are paying companies that are failing to stay in business.

[TimmySmith]

This is probably debatable, but just tossing this out there:

UK health system is top on 'efficiency', says report

They have "efficient" health spending. I guess that's good? Or at least better than the others? US is dead last.

How many of these bad businesses that are not hiring are still around because they were given bailout money? Maybe if they were allowed to fail, we would have seen fresh companies with new idea sprout up.

It should be no wonder why we aren't seeing the type of hiring that we like, because we are paying companies that are failing to stay in business.

Tesla needs to get in bed with the UAW if they want to make money. Too bad they are so focused on cars.

[DjTj]

How many of these bad businesses that are not hiring are still around because they were given bailout money? Maybe if they were allowed to fail, we would have seen fresh companies with new idea sprout up.

I feel bad for companies like Tesla Motors. A Truly innovative company that is trying to gain market share, with a new business mode. But when they get their chance to take a hold of the mainstream market when traditional Auto companies start to slip up and continue their wasteful tendencies (GM and Crystler), the government gives them 81 Billion in loans (45 Billion of which is still unpaid), more than 100 times the assets value of the young Tesla.

It should be no wonder why we aren't seeing the type of hiring that we like, because we are paying companies that are failing to stay in business.

Tesla is operating in a niche market; it was not in a position to take out the Big Three when the financial crisis hit. It's still not there now, but it is getting there, with some help from the government.

The Department of Energy gave Tesla a $465 million loan as part of the stimulus package back in 2009, which allowed them to develop their Model S sedan.

http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2009/06/22/daily33.html

Just prior to that, Daimler had invested $50 million in Tesla.

http://techcrunch.com/2009/05/19/tesla-worth-a-half-billion-dollars-after-daimler-investment/

Tesla got a $100 million contract from Toyota to build engines for the Rav 4:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-20/tesla-wins-100-million-toyota-supply-deal.html

The factory that Tesla is using was a former GM factory.

So it's not like the government and the big car companies have been conspiring against Tesla. Both government and industry have been investing money in Tesla, and Tesla has certainly been able to take advantage of the failures of others to innovate. They have been incredibly successful in a relatively short time, and I think it's actually a good example of the government putting money in the right places.

[Prosperity]

Prosperity, this post sounds like it has everything in it that I appreciate. Respectfulness, simplicity, brevity, clarity...a number system. But I think I'm too stupid to understand what you're saying.

Can you try it again with more words or more numbers or something?

lol ok... after reading my own post I think the following is what I was trying to say (though tbh I don't think it made sense in that context anyway)

when people say "the free market" they may be talking about the theory that a free market will lead to increased wealth... the "invisible hand" idea that market pressures and trade will lead to mutual benefit

they may also be talking about the "free market" as a system of trade that doesn't have certain traits for example the lack of certain laws like price controls. The lack of price controls could be responsible for prices being lower than they would have (or higher, or whatever other effects).

they might also be talking about the free market in affirmative terms. For example, they may mean laws that protect property rights, punish fraud etc. Those laws would be responsible for the maintenance of the free market.

Why does all that matter? I can't really remember, but I think it would be a little weird to say the lack of regulations control something...

[mardi gras skin]

Thanks, Prosperity, I think I got it.

they might also be talking about the free market in affirmative terms. For example, they may mean laws that protect property rights, punish fraud etc. Those laws would be responsible for the maintenance of the free market.

This I can agree with. I think the laws that protect our economy weren't well thought out which led certain sectors of our economy to break down.

[skinfan2k]

My TSP lost 3K in 1 month! ugh!!!