Hauss Posted August 9, 2001 Share Posted August 9, 2001 At Camp Marty, Survival Is Key by Michael Wilbon Friday, August 10, 2001; Page D1 Marty Schottenheimer told the story on himself. The temperature was way past 90. It was the second practice on the 10th day of camp. The first seven days, in particular, had been brutally difficult and the players hadn't yet had a day off. Suddenly, Schottenheimer could hear somebody singing. "[The lyrics] sounded like, 'The Coach is crazy,' " Schottenheimer said, smiling. "I didn't know all the words, but I joined in. It was probably Bruce." Bruce Smith might have been the only one singing that particular line, but the sentiment isn't his alone. He easily could have been leading a chorus. Time and results will show whether the coach is meticulous, supremely organized and thoroughly involved, and therefore crazy like a fox. Or obsessive, overly self-possessed, star-wary and a control freak, and therefore simply "crazy." Of all the NFL training camps, the one being conducted here by the Redskins is in the running for most compelling. It's always fascinating when you have 100 questions and no answers, and I defy anybody to give a definitive answer regarding anything related to what's going on here. Take the single most reliable player in recent NFL history, Darrell Green. He's listed as No. 1 on the depth chart at one cornerback, but every time Schottenheimer talks about the position he says it's "wide open." Green is one of two Redskins I consider automatic, first-ballot Hall of Famers, the other being the aforementioned Smith. In some camps, Green and Smith wouldn't even be participating full-throttle, but they have in Camp Marty. Well, they were until Thursday morning when Smith injured his shoulder in a major collision with offensive lineman Mookie Moore. The Redskins say Smith suffered a bruised AC joint and that it shouldn't be a serious injury. Smith says he "hopes" it isn't a major injury. Something I've learned over the years covering pro football: Regarding injuries, always believe a player who has been Ripkenesque for nearly two decades and at this point knows his body much better than the coaches. In the best of all worlds, Smith will ride a stationary bike or some such, and be ready to rip quarterbacks apart come Sept. 9. Camp won't make or break Bruce Smith. At the other end of the spectrum, I cringe to think it could be a more serious injury because Smith is, after all, 38 years old and he was the Redskins' best defensive player last season. Smith's injury, coming on the heels of Jeff George's injury, doesn't exactly start the preseason off on a joyride. In most other camps, you'd chalk this stuff up as a fluke, or injuries simply being "part of the game." But not when Schottenheimer is the coach. Marty's camps are legendary for what they extract from players, and noteworthy because they don't favor veteran players. That's one reason I'd have bet dollars to donuts that Deion wasn't going to report to Redskins camp. Deion had done his homework. He knows ex-Chiefs and ex-Browns. It's quite possible the injuries to George and Smith could have happened regardless of the coach. But it's Marty who was standing out there in the middle of those drills. "Nine days that seem like two months," is how Michael Westbrook characterized the first week-and-a-half. The general mood seems to say, "We understand – but this is insane." One veteran player told me the other day, "We will know what the hell we're supposed to do – The question is whether we'll be healthy enough [coming out of camp] to do it." Not only does Schottenheimer hear the grumbling, he expects it. It's not like he wants a mutiny, but he doesn't seem to mind pushing players to the breaking point. It's calculated. He lit 'em up the first week, unloaded on them Day 5. But the last two days, he seemed to take his foot off the pedal just a little bit. "[My camps] are characterized as being so tough," he said. "Frankly, it's not as tough as some we had in Kansas City, before we had offseason programs." Even so, Schottenheimer smiled and said he felt the grumbling from this camp, "is coming from what I call the salty old veterans. Part of it is a legitimate sense of, 'I'm tired.'‚" But Schottenheimer also listens for what comes after. "You also hear 'em say, 'I got through it.'‚" He admits he likes hearing them admit to what he called, "the achievement aspect of it." There's also something else very real here. Schottenheimer won't talk about it because any comparison would be perceived as a slap at Norv Turner. But the fact is, Schottenheimer is inheriting a team that consistently underachieved, defeated itself with sloppy special teams play, stupid penalties and stuff as fundamental as bad snaps. No competitive team in the league was less accountable or paid less attention to detail, as evidenced by the dumb penalties and basic mistakes made with critical games on the line. Turner's teams never got the most out of the talent on hand. Schottenheimer, between Labor Day and Dec. 1 anyway, has a history of getting the most out of what's on hand. Working backward from those end results, it's no great surprise this camp looks different, feels different and even sounds different. The amount of time Schottenheimer spends lording over special teams appears radical to some. "I think a lot of this is over the top," one veteran Redskin said, "but I bet we'll be more accountable than we were the last few years." But that begs the question of Schottenheimer's own accountability. His players in Cleveland and Kansas City said they often hit a wall sometime in December, a wall they think was really built during August two-a-days in the heat. If this team has to evolve from its underachieving days of a year ago, doesn't the coach have to evolve to the point he can find balance in his approach? Sunday night in Kansas City, where Schottenheimer spent 10 years, the Redskins will begin this new marriage without their No. 1 quarterback, their best defensive lineman and proven veterans Larry Centers, Mark Carrier, Keith Sims, Irving Fryar and Tre Johnson (among others). They will have a revamped offensive line, a new offensive system and dramatically lowered expectations from a year ago. And all we know now, less than two weeks into a long, hot, perhaps even dramatic training camp, is there's a long way to go before anybody will be singing a pleasant tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor Posted August 9, 2001 Share Posted August 9, 2001 This is all about psychology. I have never been in the military so I have never been through boot camp, let alone something like Seals or Rangers training. If anyone here has been through that please speak up! But whenever a group of people goes through a difficult ordeal, there is a bonding that occurs. They come to rely on each other. They have something to fall back on. Yes, we've had some dings. But we haven't lost a starter for the season and we did that under Norv's much more lax camps. Think about last season. How the team quit at the end. Anyone wanna bet this team won't do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted August 10, 2001 Share Posted August 10, 2001 #1 Wilbon is more of a tennis and golf fan than football. #2 I heard him say on the sports reporters that he is unhappy that football season is almost here. I was gonna list like 5 things but that should be enough. Writers needs to write to make a living and this is what happens when hey write about a topic they could care less about! ------------------ Bufford T Justice- Inventor of the Todd Husak "Future Starter" logo.... with the help of Blade <IMG SRC="http://www.extremeskins.com/ubb/ranks/husak2.gif" border=0> <IMG SRC="http://old.theinsiders.com/redskins/images/wash1-sm.gif" border=0> <IMG SRC="http://207.230.156.92/images/thn22.jpg" border=0> "Hi, I'm the best CB in the NFL, who are you?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indyskinsfan Posted August 10, 2001 Share Posted August 10, 2001 Ah Yes. Boot Camp, Ft. Sill, Oklahoma. I still remember the names, Drill Sergeant's SSG Sampson, SSG Brooks, SSG Nance, SSG Smith, SSG Wagner! Team conceptual thinking influences the camradarie and the "trust" for the other to do his job to the best of his ability. Pushed to your limits (or so you thought), learning to go extended periods without your creature comforts, having to rely on each other to accomplish a goal and when you fail-then all fail. Having to be ready, yet you don't anticipate the command-though you are prepared. Feeling the August heat, with no trees for shade, muscles that ache like the devil, you swear they hate you and will curse your name. You are then asked, after suffering through the most grueling physical drill you can comprehend, to then do something more. What can you possibly muster up to do that??? Yet the drive and the nudge and encouragement of an "underachiever" goes forward with all the "colors" in his or her heart to exactly that and more. It is the one that gave the pat on the back,as they passed you, as you had done so many times for them. To see this person overcome the odds, when many had already written them off, is so inspiring, you now dig deep within your pits, of your soul and you lift yourself up, as you hear the call - "Follow Me!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris 44 Posted August 10, 2001 Share Posted August 10, 2001 Hey Indy, I was there for basic in 1983. SFC Hunter and SSG Bivens, two names i'll never forget. Lawton OK, on the other hand..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All In Posted August 10, 2001 Share Posted August 10, 2001 You cannot fault Marty for the way he is holding camp. No way should it be easy. This team has underachieved during the Darth Norval years. The team has no ground to stand on and say they don't deserve what they are getting. Yes Bruce and Darrel are HOFs, but they need to have a fair workload. The work load will have to be decided by the coaches. We made it into the playoffs in '99 but again it wasn't a strong campaign. We should of been in much better position if we had a real coaching staff. Oh well, Hail the Chief! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brave Posted August 10, 2001 Share Posted August 10, 2001 Wow, Marty's camp must be REALLY tough when even the sportswriters, and I use that term very loosely, are complaining about it. Wilbon, please! If he prefers golf and tennis he should go write about it. I'm sure the masses would be very interested. One more thing ... Bruce smith was our best defender last season? I think he did a fine job, sure, but THE best? I don't think he was head and shoulders above Champ or Marco Coleman to warrant that statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe Posted August 10, 2001 Share Posted August 10, 2001 Bufford hit the nail on the head. A writer needs something to write about and this is something. I thought that the most interesting point in the article was how often the little things defeated Norval. Clearly, even Wilbon acknowledges that that will not happen this year. The players may hit a wall in December and lose because they are worn out, but they won't lose because they make a stupid mistake. That is enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted August 10, 2001 Share Posted August 10, 2001 the fact is the Browns or Chiefs talent-wise were never the best team in the NFL and therefore never won the Super Bowl. yes, some teams have snuck in an appearance despite less than stellar talent as the Giants did last year and Atlanta did in 1998, but they didn't win. Marty's teams hit walls alright. In most cases, they like the Caps in the NHL found themselves in a different world come playoff time. The Browns and Chiefs simply had no "overdrive", no players like a Jerry Rice or Lawrence Taylor to take the squad to the next level or make the critical play. Marty has horses here, however, he just needs to make sure that they are ready to run come the opener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboDaMan Posted August 10, 2001 Share Posted August 10, 2001 Wilbon loves football, but only when the Bears are any good. That 25-year cycle should be coming up later this decade. He seems to have decided the way to appear wise is to focus on the negative. There should be a job for him at the Times any day now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted August 10, 2001 Share Posted August 10, 2001 Sorry Wilbon but there won't be any SuperBowl shuffle in Chi Town anytime soon or Bulls Run. We had two soft spoken admin type for Drill instructors but they quit and we then were blessed with a Seal and Machinist Mate. Boot Camp was in Orlando for me because there were hot female recruits and it was January and still hot as heck. Discipline, attention to detail became 2nd nature. They worked us like Gunny Harmon in full metal jacket The unit all hated our new Drill Instructors which in a way brought us together. When you graduated you thanked the Drill Instructors because you survived, exceeded your expectations and us of course prove we could succeed as an unit. ------------------ Take a sip of the Marty Kool Aid and Believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamaran Posted August 10, 2001 Share Posted August 10, 2001 It's too bad Wilbon can't get a gig in Chi-town, where he wants to be. He comes up with an acorn every so often, but usually he fails miserably at his attempt to be the Bro's version of Kornheiser. He really thinks he's a funny guy. These types of camp grumblings, Bruce throwing things around yesterday after hurting his shoulder, writers likening CampMarty to Paris Island, etc., must be the source of great joy to Norvaless as he reads this crap. Someone here said today that Bruce better get his sack record this year, cause he's out of here by next season. I agree. He and George have already made that list. Give 'em hell, Marty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted August 10, 2001 Share Posted August 10, 2001 Christine Brennan was on WTEM's The Sports Reports in yesterday's afternoon drive. For those that don't remember, she was the Skins beat reporter for a time (during the Gibbs years, if memory serves). She was asked about her take on the Wilbon piece. Her response was a little laugh, and then she mentioned the "33 Rule" that people who know Wilbon apply to everything he says. Turns out those that know Michael best, including, one assumes, Tony K, Maske, etc., always apply a 33% "Wilbon Factor" to everything he writes. As in, it's 2/3 story, 1/3 Wilbonesque overreaction and/or pure hype. Confirms what I've long felt about the man, and tells me everything I need to know about the piece in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted August 10, 2001 Share Posted August 10, 2001 Originally posted by Skins_Freak: . . . Darth Norval . . . OMG, I immediately flashed on Rick Moranis wearing that huge, oversized dark helmet (inspiring his character's name) in Spaceballs! LMFAO! That's an image that's hard to erase. ------------------ "Loosen up, Sandy baby. You're just too damn tight!" - John Riggins to Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indyskinsfan Posted August 10, 2001 Share Posted August 10, 2001 Chris 44, 1978 C Co. 5th Training Battalion Artillery Surveyor - I even made Platoon Guide which had some very nice perks Yeah the pool hall and the strip joint with "crazy ballheads" that stood out in the crowd (the Army version of "Porky's) The smell of solvents from weapons details, skunks and cowpatties for miles during the road marches and the sweet smell of the Dining Facility across from I-See-O Hall (much less 5 mintues to wolf down the chow!). Skins_Freak and redman - "Obe one has taught you well young Skywalker". " what is thy bidding my master" Two favorite lines of Darth Vader [<IMG SRC="http://www.extremeskins.com/ubb/edited.gif" border=0> by indyskinsfan on August 10, 2001.] [ by indyskinsfan on August 10, 2001.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris 44 Posted August 10, 2001 Share Posted August 10, 2001 Small world Indy, also an 82C. C battery 4th Bn. From Sill to Ft Carson then to Germany and ending up at Campbell. 8 yrs total. Pull, stick, stuck, move out! Thank God for PADS coming along. Sorry guys for the one on one banter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted August 10, 2001 Share Posted August 10, 2001 Yeah, I was about to tell you guys to get a room ... Fact is, Chris44, I think you'll find that stuff usually plays pretty well here. Welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish Posted August 10, 2001 Share Posted August 10, 2001 NavyDave......CHICKS at BASIC?? YIKES. But you are in the Navy so I guess that explains it! Basic - FT Knox Infantry Basic and Advanced courses, FT. Benning Ranger School: City Phase - Benning Desert Phase - Bliss Mountains - Dalonagha GA (Montain Ranger Camp) Swamps - Eglin AFB Never been tighter with a group of guys, other than Frostburg Rugby 83-87, than my Ranger squad. In the entire class we started with over 750 and graduated 133. Same thing applies here as it did there. Don't quit and don't get hurt and you're good to go. Having said that, there is a fine line between hardcore and stupid. Dick Vermiel came into St. Louis the same way and did finally realize that players are different today than in the past. He caught a clue, adjusted and brought home the Lombardi. It will be very interesting to see how Marty goes along. He has already lightened practices up a bit, but I would imagine that it was the plan all along. Ref discussions earlier how there is no depth on NFL teams these days due to the cap and whatnot, I feel injuries are one of, if not THE most important determining factors to a successful season. Regardless, sometimes ya gotta live HARD to be HARD. And to offer another quote from Darth, I'll send this out to Wilbon...... "I find your lack of faith disturbing" ------------------ HAIL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Posted August 10, 2001 Share Posted August 10, 2001 Darth Norval...should be Dearth Norval shouldn't it? ------------------ Comming October 16, a new name! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish Posted August 10, 2001 Share Posted August 10, 2001 NavyDave, Chicks at Basic......YIKES! I guess that's the Navy for ya - joking. Basic - FT Knox Infantry Basic and Advanced courses and Airborne School - FT Benning Ranger School: City Phase - Benning, GA Desert - FT Bliss, TX Mountains - Dalonagha GA, Swamps - Eglin AFB, FL I was never tighter with a bunch of dudes than with my Ranger squad and Frostburg Rugby 84-87. That all came from shared misery. Beyond that we also learned, as mentioned above, that when you think you're spent, there is usually a little more left in the tank. That's what Marty is trying to teach here. When they are behind in the 4th quarter, smoked to the bone, PRIDE will get them through. I don't remember the EXACT stat, but how many games under Norv did we loose when the score was within 3 points? I think it's in the 90th percentile. Soldiers don't fight and die for Mom, apple pie or the flag, they fight FOR EACH OTHER. Marty is building brotherhood through shared pain and misery. I heard almost those EXACT words from the players themselves in the few interviews I've happened to catch. It's just like Ranger school here; Don't quit and don't get hurt, and you're good to go! We started with over 750 and graduated 133. Most of those quit or failed due to lack of preparation. Having said that......I think injuries are one of, if not THE, most important aspects to a successful season. As was posted earlier this week, depth is non-existent in the salary cap NFL. Dick Vermeil came into St. Loius initially whuppin that A$$ and playing the whole "Old School" tune. Finally, after he weeded out the weak and malcontent, non-team players, (can anybody say DEON? Marty scared him off before he even showed) he caught a clue and realized that today's playas are not what they used to be either physically or mentally/emotionally. He backed off a bit and brought home the Lombardi. It will be interesting to see how Marty evolves. This last week his took his foot off the pedal some, but I think that was prob the plan the whole time. There is a fine line between hardcore and stupid and I hope Marty can see through his enthusiasm and keep it real and safe. To send another Darth Vader quote to both Wilbon and Bruce... "I find your lack of faith disturbing!" ------------------ HAIL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted August 10, 2001 Share Posted August 10, 2001 The person who recruited me into the Navy was a hottie who went to school here in DC. And being the young dumb full of --- kid I was, I chose Orlando over Chicago Boot camp in January because of the babes on base and at a strip club called the pink ***** cat. Our second set of Instructors PTed us until all you wanted to do was go to bed before taps. The vets should be ok because they have basically survived camp Marty. The rest of the time in camp will be fine tuning since every remaining week has a preseason game so they can't go over board anymore with the two a days. My question about the Army is this. Do you guys pack dirt/dust with you when you deploy because whenever we did joint ops with the Army and those civillians in that club caled the Air Force, 2/3 of the base is squared away the remaining part had to have dirt mud and or dust and I'm not talking about where the equipment is located. But hey atleast you have a fellow soldiers shoulder to cry on in December when Navy opens up a can of Whup A$$ on Army again. ------------------ Take a sip of the Marty Kool Aid and Believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish Posted August 10, 2001 Share Posted August 10, 2001 OK, So I didn't see this was a 2 page post and posted again. I'm an idiot. ------------------ HAIL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indyskinsfan Posted August 11, 2001 Share Posted August 11, 2001 NavyDave them's fighting words and yes I'll take Army. I am a former enlisted, but I have confidence the young officer recruits will do just fine. I have to keep a low profile about our jokes about officers, since I am in the American Legion. Fish, I do recall a year of intense study I did of Ranger units at Fort Lewis, WA. Tough bunch! There were days we did our PT at the same time and place and participated in some 10 mile runs. Other training, in the advance mode was done in field problems, deployments for joints overseas in 79-80, like with McChord AFB. Yakima Firing Center, was a true moment to build our comaradarie. Got my only taste of 'true' confrontations during the Lybya incidents in connection with the Berlin bombing while in Grafenwoehr,GE and our "full" alert, during that and Grenada, Panama. Very fortunate overall from 8/78-1/89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted August 11, 2001 Share Posted August 11, 2001 Just teasing Indy I'm the only squid in the family, unless you include jar heads the rest are Army. I did Cold weather training in Hohenfelds Germany for our joint ops in Bosnia, Yugo, and LWD (learn while deployed) training in Freetown, Liberia, Guinea Bisau I get the feeling now that this will be the first time our team is completely bonded since the Era Of Gibb ------------------ Take a sip of the Marty Kool Aid and Believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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