Shanahan's start and Coughlin's start similarities

[Skinsinparadise]

i am in the camp of giving Shanny some time to turn this around.

I was thinking about the Shanahan rocky start from a circus standpoint. It reminds me some of Tom Coughlin. The media NOW talks about the Giants as a model of stability but how quickly we forget that the Giants were as big if not a bigger circus and soap opera than the Redskins now. Then things settled down for them. Coughlin like Shanahan took over an undisciplined team who didn't have consecutive winning seasons in some time. And things started rocky for Tom both with the media and his stars and yes people called for his head pretty quickly when success didn't come instantaneously.

I am sure we all recall: Tiki Barber calling out Coughlin for being out coached then saying he forced him to quit football, players openly rebelling against Coughlin's autocratic ways and taking shots at him with the media, Strahan sitting out training camp and speaking out against him. Plaxico Burress suspended and benched -- and that was pre the shooting incident.

Past articles and comments

In this article from 2007, the writer is suggesting Coughlin should be fired since he came to change the culture and it didn't work. Eli Manning hasn't shown progress and will likely never be good, players are quitting on him, their star player, Tiki Barber is upset and threatens to quit in mid season. They say where is instant progress it all feels the same from the past.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/112196/why_new_york_giants_head_coach_tom.html?cat=14

In 07, The NY Times asking their readers should he be canned for the lack of progress, one of the blog comments to it: he acts like a 1900 school teacher who can’t relate to his students[players]. he seems unable to cope, along with his quarterback,who should have been benched mid-season

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/01/07/should-the-giants-fire-tom-coughlin/

A blog about how Tom Coughlin wrongly throws Eli Manning under the bus from 2006 for the teams bad performance

http://www.faniq.com/poll_results.php?poll_id=68568

to this day, he still gets written up for calling out players, here he's doing it to Hakeem Nicks

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/09/28/tom-coughlin-calls-out-hakeem-nicks/

[Skinzfever2010]

The Coughlin saga isn't going to end well in Jersey.

[skinnyfan57]

This and that....

Bottom line, we just threw away more draft picks. It's the reason we are this bad to begin with and the reason we were all so excited to have somebody else at the helm. We all thought mismanagement like this was a thing of the past.

[hail2skins]

The Coughlin era in NY has already been a success. A Lombardi, a couple of division titles, and more-than-likely another playoff appearance this year.

The Giants were just a bit worse than we were in 2003 and allowed them to do the whole trade with San Diego to get Manning back in 2004. Remember, the Giants were 5-2 in 2004 with Kurt Warner starting and then slipped to 5-4 before deciding to go with Manning for good. A controversial move at the time given that New York was still very much in playoff contention (and I believe two 8-8 teams made it in the NFC that year), but things worked out in the long run.

Still have confidence in Mike, but right now I'm prepared for a couple seasons of suckage if we draft a QB in round 1.

[boofMcboof]

Tom Coughlin does not have final say in personnel decisions.

[Skinsinparadise]

Tom Coughlin does not have final say in personnel decisions.

was referring to all the hoopla, soap opera, drama aspect of this year. While I don't like giving up picks, I think we will survive losing a 2nd and 4th, especially if we get one of those picks back which we should hopefully be able to do.

[33]

The Coughlin saga isn't going to end well in Jersey.

That ring he got matters a lot more than all the other seasons.

[boofMcboof]

was referring to all the hoopla, soap opera, drama aspect of this year. While I don't like giving up picks, I think we will survive losing a 2nd and 4th, especially if we get one of those picks back which we should hopefully be able to do.

Just something to consider . . . If Shanny had to report to someone of a higher authority with football credentials, there would be a series of checks and balances that probably might of prevented some of the **** ups this year. Coaches are always going to have run ins with their players, as well they should. Coaches need to be in their faces when the players are slacking. A general manager who's detached from the emotions of the situation is then able to mediate those kinds of situations if necessary in the best interest of the club. Shanny is known to take things personal and act on impulse. That's a pretty big no-no when running an entire organization and far from professional.

[Skinsinparadise]

Just something to consider . . . If Shanny had to report to someone of a higher authority with football credentials, there would be a series of checks and balances that probably might of prevented some of the **** ups this year. Coaches are always going to have run ins with their players, as well they should. Coaches need to be in their faces when the players are slacking. A general manager who's detached from the emotions of the situation is then able to mediate those kinds of situations if necessary in the best interest of the club. Shanny is known to take things personal and act on impulse. That's a pretty big no-no when running an entire organization and far from professional.

I hear you there and I wouldn't mind a GM at all but I'd trade Shanahan the coach and GM for the Zorn/Cerrato tandem any day of the week.

[PeterMP]

was referring to all the hoopla, soap opera, drama aspect of this year. While I don't like giving up picks, I think we will survive losing a 2nd and 4th, especially if we get one of those picks back which we should hopefully be able to do.

But its important to remember behind Coughlin there was an organization that had a good reputation in football supporting him.

That buys you credit with the media, the fans, and the players.

[Oldfan]

Shanahan's circus has nothing to do with discipline of lack thereof. I think a strong majority would agree with Mike's approach to discipline.

[Skinsinparadise]

Shanahan's circus has nothing to do with discipline of lack thereof. I think a strong majority would agree with Mike's approach to discipline.

I didn't intend this to be a pro or anti-Shanahan thread aside from saying lets see how this plays out. In baseball, I like the Yankees so I read the NY sports pages a lot. The McNabb/Haynesworth stuff and people complaining about the drama -- has a similar feel to me to the Coughlin early Giant years. Shanahan like Coughlin doesn't seem to care what the media thinks and isn't gun shy about upsetting players. Whether that's good or bad, I don't know. But his style strikes me similar to coughlin and his first year oddly enough having a soap opera feel to it -- similar to Coughlin's early years.

---------- Post added December-18th-2010 at 01:30 PM ----------

Shanahan's circus has nothing to do with discipline of lack thereof. I think a strong majority would agree with Mike's approach to discipline.

seems like he's come around to your point of view on McNabb and as much as you like to say Shanahan isn't about ball control, if you believe some of the reports, what annoys Shanahan about McNabb is his lack of ability to move the chains with short passes. McNabb leads the league in completing long passing plays. If that was the main thing Shanahan cared about, he'd be loving McNabb.

[Oldfan]

...seems like he's come around to your point of view on McNabb and as much as you like to say Shanahan isn't about ball control, if you believe some of the reports, what annoys Shanahan about McNabb is his lack of ability to move the chains with short passes. McNabb leads the league in completing long passing plays. If that was the main thing Shanahan cared about, he'd be loving McNabb.

I haven't read Mike saying anything like that. I've read the media speculating that ball control is the issue.

In any case, McNabb's performance shouldn't have come as a surprise. His strengths and weaknesses haven't changed since he changed teams.

[Bat~man]

It's funny, I was explaining this to some friends as well. I hit on how a few things seem alike between Coughlin and Shanny. Ultimately tho, I think Shanny feels he needs to really establish himself and be the unquestioned leader of this team.. he also feels he has to absolutely change the culture here. Doing both of those things means he's going to make decisions that the mediots and we as fans aren't always going to like, especially in the first year or two.

I'm saying give it time, altho it wouldn't hurt my feelings a bit if we dumped Jim *****hat this year.

[Skinsinparadise]

I haven't read Mike saying anything like that. I've read the media speculating that ball control is the issue.

In any case, McNabb's performance shouldn't have come as a surprise. His strengths and weaknesses haven't changed since he changed teams.

might have been just the radio, I heard Chris Russell (Redskins beat reporter) on 980 this morning talk about it, thought I read something to that effect in one of the blogs. It's interesting that they like Beck, don't know if he will be any good, but reading about him he seems more of a pure WCO QB.

---------- Post added December-18th-2010 at 03:31 PM ----------

It's funny, I was explaining this to some friends as well. I hit on how a few things seem alike between Coughlin and Shanny. Ultimately tho, I think Shanny feels he needs to really establish himself and be the unquestioned leader of this team.. he also feels he has to absolutely change the culture here. Doing both of those things means he's going to make decisions that the mediots and we as fans aren't always going to like, especially in the first year or two.

I'm saying give it time, altho it wouldn't hurt my feelings a bit if we dumped Jim *****hat this year.

Our board, the media, can be very no pun intended extreme to one way or another. for me how the heck do I know whether shanny will succeed here but yeah for a guy that coached for 14 years, had only 2 losing seasons, 7 playoff appearances, consistent top 10 offenses, went to 13-3 with Jake Plummer and left the team with stud YOUNG players all over the offense -- I'd give the dude a chance. Yeah he has some bad defenses, and yes post Elway he wasn't great in the playoffs -- but overall his resume to me is sufficient to be given a chance to play this out. Heck I couldn't stand Zorn the coach, though dug the person, still I wasn't calling for his head in season 1.

What's unique about Shanny compared to what we've had post Marty is he doesn't pander to players that don't go with the program and he doesn't seem to care if he hurts a players feelings if he believes its for the good of the team even if its a classy guy like McNabb.