How Many Teams in the Paloffs now drafted OL round 1?

[jtyler42]

Really?

New England, Colts, Eagles, Green Bay - Draft.

Ravens, NYJ - Draft.

Cinci - Draft

Minn, NO - Draft - let go.

Not sure your point. It's weak at best. Sure some of these teams just drafted these guys. Sure some of them have only been in the league 1 or 2 years.

Regardless, your argument is weak...not really an argument because it's factually false.

R.I.F...Reading is fundamental...I SAID PERENNIAL PLAYOFF TEAMS IN CASE YOU MISSED IT...

Only the Colts, Pats, and Eagles off that list are perennial playoff teams...

I also said 3 of the teams listed didn't acquire their QB in the draft at all...NO, MINN, and ARZ all got their QB through FA...

Then I said only two of those teams has won a SB...

What's factually false about that?

As far as the point I was making it was in the part of the post that you obviously didn't read...I'll post it again for ya! There is no magical formula for building a team, and all of those teams you have listed have each done it a different way...Not all of the Qb's on those teams on the list are first round picks...You don't have to draft a QB in the first round to get a franchise QB...He just has to have skills that translate to the NFL, be a winner, be intelligent, and fit your system, and as with the first round pick get lucky that it all works out...

[flock53]

Here is my problem with that logic:

If you have 2 needs, lets say QB and LT for the sake of argument, and the Redskins are picking at 4 there and they believe that YES, OL is the "larger" problem of the two and Okung and Bradford are there...if you feel Bradford is a QB that fits your system and you can build around - you pull the trigger, no question.

The QB position trumps all. HOWEVER, if you DON'T feel that the QB available is worth that pick, then sure, you go LT.

Problem w/ these mad scientist coaches (and Shanny is one) just like old Ravens coach who drafted the sexy Boller after Dilfer took them. They think they can take any clay and make a work of art out of it.

[Vooskin]

The reason a lot of people want us to draft OL in the 1st round instead of QB is not because that is the best way to success, it is because the QBs in this draft I feel are not worth the pick. This is a bad year to be looking for a QB. If this was a year like when Manning, Rivers, Roethlisberger was drafted then I don't think anyone would be arguing about drafting a QB.

Beyond possibly Clausen there isn't a QB close to being worth the 4th overall pick. Why waste a pick on a QB that doesnt grade well and we have needs and are able to attain someone with a much higher grade that fits the need?

You people who list these stats leave out so many variables you can seemingly believe anything you want and they will support them. The OP's point is terrible. Trust me if this was a great class of QBs there wouldnt be much question which way to go. But it's not and passing up on a player this high of need for the seemingly unknown of a QB that at best will not pay dividends for at least a few years would be just another step in the wrong direction. I'm a believer of BPA but one that does take need into consideration.

If you want a QB in the first it's either Clausen or nobody. Bardford is so overhyped it is ridiculous. We'd be better of with Campbell then Bradford.

The problem with drafting a QB at #4 overall and not being sure at all is that QB will essentially deem the progress or failure of our team and NEW head coach for years to come. I'd rather have some stability and upgrade for now and make the move for a something proven in the future.

[jtyler42]

The reason a lot of people want us to draft OL in the 1st round instead of QB is not because that is the best way to success, it is because the QBs in this draft I feel are not worth the pick. This is a bad year to be looking for a QB. If this was a year like when Manning, Rivers, Roethlisberger was drafted then I don't think anyone would be arguing about drafting a QB.

Beyond possibly Clausen there isn't a QB close to being worth the 4th overall pick. Why waste a pick on a QB that doesnt grade well and we have needs and are able to attain someone with a much higher grade that fits the need?

You people who list these stats leave out so many variables you can seemingly believe anything you want and they will support them. The OP's point is terrible. Trust me if this was a great class of QBs there wouldnt be much question which way to go. But it's not and passing up on a player this high of need for the seemingly unknown of a QB that at best will not pay dividends for at least a few years would be just another step in the wrong direction. I'm a believer of BPA but one that does take need into consideration.

If you want a QB in the first it's either Clausen or nobody. Bardford is so overhyped it is ridiculous. We'd be better of with Campbell then Bradford.

The problem with drafting a QB at #4 overall and not being sure at all is that QB will essentially deem the progress or failure of our team and NEW head coach for years to come. I'd rather have some stability and upgrade for now and make the move for a something proven in the future.

This a great post...

[chipwhich]

As far as the point I was making it was in the part of the post that you obviously didn't read...I'll post it again for ya! There is no magical formula for building a team, and all of those teams you have listed have each done it a different way...Not all of the Qb's on those teams on the list are first round picks...You don't have to draft a QB in the first round to get a franchise QB...He just has to have skills that translate to the NFL, be a winner, be intelligent, and fit your system, and as with the first round pick get lucky that it all works out...

Only 2 are perennial playoff contenders??? OK.

How many of those QB's AREN'T first round draft picks?

How many of those teams just DRAFTED a starting QB? In the first round?

And for those teams that got their QB's in "free agency" how many of those QB's are first rounders? WHY did they end up with their teams?

I mean really, you can dance around the subject and talk reading fundamentals, but more important than reading is COMPREHENSION.

So the NE Patriots QB and Arizona QB are the minority. Facts remain.

Check yours.

BTW Which teams aren't PERENNIAL in your definition and WHY?

[NewRegime]

I thought it was obvious, you dont need to draft a QB high in the draft either. You can get to the playoffs with a good D and running game. Rodgers sat what 3 years before starting, do we have that luxury? :doh:

P.S Warner wasnt drafted either (Arena leaguer) and just like Brady got a chance to shine because of injuries to their "franchise" QBs.

There is NO actual bluprint otherwise everyone would follow it. :doh:

Some here think theres a "franchise" QB in this draft, some think the OL talent is better and you build the line first.

After all the hype last year how GREAT this QB class would be, I think its BLAH. How did Bama do it? RUN GAME and DEFENSE while the pretty boy QB wussed out. :hysterical:

I've done the research and feel free to check it for yourself:

Almost 50% of QBs that have won the Super Bowl were drafted from the first round. That leaves 7 (6 other rounds plus free agency) other places to obtain a QB. That makes it 7% chance to find a QB to win the SB.

ALSO, 80-90% (depending on what you consider franchise) of SB teams did it with a franchise QB.

You are using flawed logic comparing: first - college to pros and second - most teams who have their starting QB injured will lose, especially without an a good backup.

[hitmandm]

Im saying that teams who draft QBs in the top 5 are getting to the playoffs more this year. The playoff teams dont really have top 5 or 10 OL.

Getting a top QB is best for teams to get to the playoffs. 45% had QBs drafted in the top 5 picks.

Im not saying that we ignore OL. It just it seems pretty apparent that if we are to draft a QB, a top 5 pick is highly correlated to playoff appearance. And, getting a top 10 OL is not highly correlated to a playoff appearance. Draft a QB top 5 and then Draft the OL rounds 2-5. It seems that is how the playoff teams are doing it.

[NewRegime]

The reason a lot of people want us to draft OL in the 1st round instead of QB is not because that is the best way to success, it is because the QBs in this draft I feel are not worth the pick. This is a bad year to be looking for a QB. If this was a year like when Manning, Rivers, Roethlisberger was drafted then I don't think anyone would be arguing about drafting a QB.

Hind sight is 20/20 my friend. What makes this class any different from that class? I mean, these are some of the best college QBs to ever play collectively and they are coming out one time.

Every year its a gamble. You rely on scouts, coaches, and evaluators to work them out. If they think they are good enough, they will pull the trigger.

The trust should be had in Shanny and Allen.

[NewRegime]

This has become a passing league folks. Everyone knows the QB is the most important position, followed closely to the OL (as mentioned in the Blindside, lol).

[Vooskin]

This has become a passing league folks. Everyone knows the QB is the most important position, followed closely to the OL (as mentioned in the Blindside, lol).

Then we hired the wrong head coach. And both playoff games today were won by good defense and the run. Cincy couldnt pass and the eagles couldn't run.

[Vooskin]

Im saying that teams who draft QBs in the top 5 are getting to the playoffs more this year. The playoff teams dont really have top 5 or 10 OL.

Getting a top QB is best for teams to get to the playoffs. 45% had QBs drafted in the top 5 picks.

Im not saying that we ignore OL. It just it seems pretty apparent that if we are to draft a QB, a top 5 pick is highly correlated to playoff appearance. And, getting a top 10 OL is not highly correlated to a playoff appearance. Draft a QB top 5 and then Draft the OL rounds 2-5. It seems that is how the playoff teams are doing it.

Can I ask you what happens to the teams that draft a QB in the top 5 and they turn out to be a bust? Is there any correlation between where they are drafted, the money spent, the waste of pick of another potentially great player and the years the franchise spends hoping the guy pans out?

I for one am not ready to seal Shanahan's fate on someone like Sam Bradford. I'd rather improve another part of our team and see what Shanny can do before we starting changing everything. If we take a QB at #4 Shanny's fate will undeniably be tied to him.

[NewRegime]

Then we hired the wrong head coach. And both playoff games today were won by good defense and the run. Cincy couldnt pass and the eagles couldn't run.

Obviously it takes all three phases. Please don't dismiss my argument, nor anyone elses, because you feel that defense is being ignored.

Do you realize Brad Johnson was the best QB this team has had in the past decade? He did go on and win a SB, AND YES with a good defense. But the fact remains, the Redskins need and have needed a GOOD QB. The offense is ranked 3rd in either PPG or overall (i'm not quite sure) in the past decade.

[chipwhich]

Can I ask you what happens to the teams that draft a QB in the top 5 and they turn out to be a bust? Is there any correlation between where they are drafted, the money spent, the waste of pick of another potentially great player and the years the franchise spends hoping the guy pans out?

I for one am not ready to seal Shanahan's fate on someone like Sam Bradford. I'd rather improve another part of our team and see what Shanny can do before we starting changing everything. If we take a QB at #4 Shanny's fate will undeniably be tied to him.

You mean like Joe Gibbs?

You draft players you think can win. If Sam Bradford is the next Peyton Manning you draft him.

What did Robert Gallery do for the Oakland Raiders. How about the Bengals first rounder?

Chasing my tail....

First round picks have to pan out. You don't draft 1'st round by need, you draft for future potential.

[NewRegime]

I for one am not ready to seal Shanahan's fate on someone like Sam Bradford. I'd rather improve another part of our team and see what Shanny can do before we starting changing everything. If we take a QB at #4 Shanny's fate will undeniably be tied to him.

Lucky for us, that decision lies with Shanny and not anyone here:D

If Shanahan feels that Bradford (or any other QB) is worthy of being drafted at 4 overall, than he needs to do it. As a leader and long time professional, you can't second guess yourself. He has to rely on his experience and instincts and stick to his plan.

What "other" part of the team do you think needs improving. The fact remains that it is A LOT more difficult for a team to sustain long term success without a franchise QB. And most franchise QBs are found in the first round, and rightfully so - they are the best QBs coming out of college at the time they are selected.

[hitmandm]

Can I ask you what happens to the teams that draft a QB in the top 5 and they turn out to be a bust? Is there any correlation between where they are drafted, the money spent, the waste of pick of another potentially great player and the years the franchise spends hoping the guy pans out?

I for one am not ready to seal Shanahan's fate on someone like Sam Bradford. I'd rather improve another part of our team and see what Shanny can do before we starting changing everything. If we take a QB at #4 Shanny's fate will undeniably be tied to him.

Well look at the San Diego Chargers. Drafted Ryan Leaf in 98-how much of a bust was that- didnt have a draft pick the next year. Got Rivers 4th overall in 2004 and looks like a favorite to win a SB. They havent drafted 1 first round OL since before Leaf.

The Skins drafted a great LT in 2000 and meddled (wasted) with two low first round pick QBs ever since and we are worse off than a team that busted a number 2 overall QB pick but still had the balls to understand that QB is the most important position and to pull the trigger accordingly.

If you dont have a franchise QB, you get one.

[NewRegime]

If you dont have a franchise QB, you get one.

Exactly! Its no secret to NFL teams. You don't give up. I also believe the "bust" potential is higher for teams that bring in QBs to bad situations. Any QB that Shanny brings in here can easily be a bust if they either don't let him sit before the line is fixed or throw him to the dogs behind an OL that is still rebuilding.

[hitmandm]

In my opinion, if you dont think the QBs this year are worthy-- Hell..maybe-- I dont know, then we better trade down and pick up picks NEXT year (not this year) so we can get Locker or whomever is the good QB next year.

If you dont have a franchise QB you go nowhere in this pass happy league. I dont care how many OL you draft.

[Vooskin]

Lol at "If you dont have a franchise QB, you get one."

if it were only that easy. How many teams take QB's on average each year in the draft? How many Franchise QBs are in the whole league right now that were taken in the first? 45% of QBs in the playoffs right now may be high 1st round draft picks but that % is not the same as Qbs taken that high overall that pan out.

And why does taking a guy in the top 5 even matter? It's just a draft position. It matters because teams are willing to give these guys more time and effort and better equip them then guys in later rounds. When you have such an investment you do your best to develop it.

I ask you this. If we take Bradford at #4 and he ends up being a bust and Clausen falls to say the seahawks at what 12 or 14? and he ends up being all pro would you change your argument or would you still hold true and draft by very basic statistics that you seem to believe right now or would you possibly learn that really good scouting and situation these guys fall into matter more then just a stupid number?

Sanchez has had very little to do with his teams success. I could have probably lead that defense and run game to the playoffs.

Palmer has been to the playoffs what twice in his career and lost both games? Our team has been there the same amount of times in almost as many years with brunell and campbell/collins with the same results.

Brady non factor due to draft position.

Warner, again non factor.

Aaron Rodgers fell to a team with solid peaces in place and got to sit behind favre. Don't forget he was projected high but not many teams needed a QB that year and the 49ers went with alex smith. Plus he doesnt count, end of 1st.

Flacco has looked pretty solid as QB in this league, he was a division II QB that wasnt even projected in the first round. The ravens if i recall traded up to grab him. Good scouting comes to mind, again not top 5.

Romo sits to pee UFA, again does not apply.

Favre, does not apply

Brees, does not apply.

You can go back to what I first said, still stand by it.

[illone]

Typical straw man argument that has nothing to do with how real football teams view potential players.

The bottom line is the Skins have the 4th pick this year and need to improve the team with that pick. Regardless of what happened to those other teams the Skins get the 4th best player in the draft THIS YEAR.

My money is on Okung:D.

[hitmandm]

Lol at "If you dont have a franchise QB, you get one."

if it were only that easy. How many teams take QB's on average each year in the draft? How many Franchise QBs are in the whole league right now that were taken in the first? 45% of QBs in the playoffs right now may be high 1st round draft picks but that % is not the same as Qbs taken that high overall that pan out.

And why does taking a guy in the top 5 even matter? It's just a draft position. It matters because teams are willing to give these guys more time and effort and better equip them then guys in later rounds. When you have such an investment you do your best to develop it.

I ask you this. If we take Bradford at #4 and he ends up being a bust and Clausen falls to say the seahawks at what 12 or 14? and he ends up being all pro would you change your argument or would you still hold true and draft by very basic statistics that you seem to believe right now or would you possibly learn that really good scouting and situation these guys fall into matter more then just a stupid number?

Sanchez has had very little to do with his teams success. I could have probably lead that defense and run game to the playoffs.

Palmer has been to the playoffs what twice in his career and lost both games? Our team has been there the same amount of times in almost as many years with brunell and campbell/collins with the same results.

Brady non factor due to draft position.

Warner, again non factor.

Aaron Rodgers fell to a team with solid peaces in place and got to sit behind favre. Don't forget he was projected high but not many teams needed a QB that year and the 49ers went with alex smith. Plus he doesnt count, end of 1st.

Flacco has looked pretty solid as QB in this league, he was a division II QB that wasnt even projected in the first round. The ravens if i recall traded up to grab him. Good scouting comes to mind, again not top 5.

Romo sits to pee UFA, again does not apply.

Favre, does not apply

Brees, does not apply.

You can go back to what I first said, still stand by it.

If you want to bank the Redskin offensive strategy on getting a low round pick QB to come in and save us, play the lottery for your retirement. Someone always wins the lottery...someone will always catch lightening in a bottle on a low rd QB pick.

Obviously QBs will bust and at a high rate. Although recently the QBs are seemingly going to the playoffs. If you cant scout and take a bad player, it will hurt.

And I didnt say take Bradford. Not one place did I say that. If our professional scouts and talent people and SB winning coach that has 3 Pro Bowl QBs thinks a QB is a top 5 talent. You have to take him. Its highly correlated to success in this league, unlike taking a top OLT it seems.

[Best Team Ever]

Obviouly there's no secret formula in the NFL. I say if Shanny thinks theirs a franchise qb at 4 we draft him If not we go to our biggest need OL. I won't have much of an opinion on the qb's until the combine cause I'm not a big college football fan. From Texas though and would love to pick up McCoy but not in 1st.

[Vooskin]

If you want to bank the Redskin offensive strategy on getting a low round pick QB to come in and save us, play the lottery for your retirement. Someone always wins the lottery...someone will always catch lightening in a bottle on a low rd QB pick.

Obviously QBs will bust and at a high rate. Although recently the QBs are seemingly going to the playoffs. If you cant scout and take a bad player, it will hurt.

And I didnt say take Bradford. Not one place did I say that. If our professional scouts and talent people and SB winning coach that has 3 Pro Bowl QBs thinks a QB is a top 5 talent. You have to take him. Its highly correlated to success in this league, unlike taking a top OLT it seems.

You seem to misunderstand what im saying. Getting a franchise QB isn't easy and it isn't determined by these silly statistics. Players develop at different rates, schemes, coaching, everything is a variable. If we have to have a franchise QB why not just draft QBs every round year in and year out, not just us but all teams in the league untill we have found him? Why does this not happen? Because there are 21 other positions to play in this league. Of course QB is the most important but you don't throw away your future because of something you really want. You need a TEAM to compete in this league. A franchise QB is the icing that will consistently keep you above the teams that don't want have one. But to ignore weaknesses, ones of dire need and take a QB solely on the premise because you should when you have a top 5 pick and want one is simply stupid.

[Vooskin]

I've been a "JC hater" for longer then most and you can look at my post history. But with the current crop of QBs(clausen is the only one I wouldnt cry if we took)I would not be happy if we took one at #4. I would honestly rather draft oline, if he is one of the BPA because it is need and stick with campbell another year. You take a franchise QB or go after one when the opportunity presents itself. Just taking a guy and hoping he pans out because you think everything is luck and risking your franchise on it is asinine.

My argument to the OP was never to not take a QB in the top 5 but simply that the logic as to why was wrong. This has been my basis so far. I am totally for trading back if the opportunity presents itself or even take a QB if you believe he is a franchise type. My personal belief is Bradford is not, Clausen has my vote the most if we had to take one but I wasn't amazed by him in college. That said he does have alot of pro attributes and skills that I would at least feel justified if he was taken at our pick opposed to bradford who I see a mid round draft pick that could possibly flourish in the right system with a great oline. Chicken or Egg?

Build a team, if you get lucky and get a super awesome QB or know of someone who will def be one and have the chance to draft him then thats great. For the other 24+ teams to sacrifice your future on you have to have a franchise QB and forcing it will more often then not lead to many years of failure.

[hitmandm]

I've been a "JC hater" for longer then most and you can look at my post history. But with the current crop of QBs(clausen is the only one I wouldnt cry if we took)I would not be happy if we took one at #4. I would honestly rather draft oline, if he is one of the BPA because it is need and stick with campbell another year. You take a franchise QB or go after one when the opportunity presents itself. Just taking a guy and hoping he pans out because you think everything is luck and risking your franchise on it is asinine.

My argument to the OP was never to not take a QB in the top 5 but simply that the logic as to why was wrong. This has been my basis so far. I am totally for trading back if the opportunity presents itself or even take a QB if you believe he is a franchise type. My personal belief is Bradford is not, Clausen has my vote the most if we had to take one but I wasn't amazed by him in college. That said he does have alot of pro attributes and skills that I would at least feel justified if he was taken at our pick opposed to bradford who I see a mid round draft pick that could possibly flourish in the right system with a great oline. Chicken or Egg?

Build a team, if you get lucky and get a super awesome QB or know of someone who will def be one and have the chance to draft him then thats great. For the other 24+ teams to sacrifice your future on you have to have a franchise QB and forcing it will more often then not lead to many years of failure.

The problem is that from my OP, I said nothing your said I said. It is your bias that you read it that way. My Op was a statement of fact unlike your editorial which is purely opinion. When you told me to talk about a team that busted a high QB pick and how it screws them up, I not only gave it to you but I contrasted it to our situation with a high OLT pick and several years of low picking QBs. You ignored this.

I do not advcate taking a QB who sucks at 4 just because we draft 4th. In my OP and all my posts I never said that. I also didnt say we should take Bradford over Claussen.

[hitmandm]

You seem to misunderstand what im saying. Getting a franchise QB isn't easy and it isn't determined by these silly statistics. Players develop at different rates, schemes, coaching, everything is a variable. If we have to have a franchise QB why not just draft QBs every round year in and year out, not just us but all teams in the league untill we have found him? Why does this not happen? Because there are 21 other positions to play in this league. Of course QB is the most important but you don't throw away your future because of something you really want. You need a TEAM to compete in this league. A franchise QB is the icing that will consistently keep you above the teams that don't want have one. But to ignore weaknesses, ones of dire need and take a QB solely on the premise because you should when you have a top 5 pick and want one is simply stupid.

A franchise QB is not the icing on the cake. It is the fundamental piece that causes teams to make the playoffs or not. And, while drafting a QB with a top pick is not a guarantee of success, it is highly correlated to playoffs if he doesnt bust.