DieselPwr44 Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I've seen him play. I saw grade A talent . No you didn't. You're just a fan. You know nothing. See how easy that is Oldfan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I can understand you thinking you know more than me about QB evaluation, but do you really think you know more than all those NFL scouts, ex-GMs, ex-coaches and the GM of Chicago who weighed in on Cutler's value when he was traded? Teams are wrong on QBs all the time and considering that Cutler is a turnover machine they were wrong again. Clearly the Broncos are a more solid team and it makes QBs perform better. Cutler was better there and Orton is now better there. however speaking of Chicago's QB evaluators, tell me when the last time they had a good QB was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Who knows? I'm not trying to make a point one way or another, i'm just curious to hear your opinion. I can understand you thinking you know more than me about QB evaluation, but do you really think you know more than all those NFL scouts, ex-GMs, ex-coaches and the GM of Chicago who weighed in on Cutler's value when he was traded? Where do you get i think i know more from? Because in my estimation Cutler isn't significantly better then JC? I certainly don't know more, but i have faith in my own ability to make a sound informed researched judgement. And i'm sure you have that same faith in your assessments. And i have no idea what these scouts, ex-GMs, ex-coaches said about Cutler's ability in relation to JC's ability but i think the assessment of their abilities would be different from their value assessment. At the time Cutler had great value where now he probably has lesser value but imo his ability as a QB hasn't changed. And i would have to consider the GM of Chicago's assessment of Cutler as skewed because he willing to give up a king's ransom to get him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Teams are wrong on QBs all the time and considering that Cutler is a turnover machine they were wrong again. We aren't talking about a team's opinion of a QB. Several expert opinions arrived at the same conclusion. And, no one has been proven wrong. Cutler's tendency to force some throws is the only knock against him. Clearly the Broncos are a more solid team and it makes QBs perform better. Cutler was better there and Orton is now better there. Well, of course, the quality of the support makes a huge difference. That doesn't mean that Cutler isn't far more talented than Kyle Orton and every other QB in the NFL. however speaking of Chicago's QB evaluators, tell me when the last time they had a good QB was? Who cares? It wasn't Angelo all those years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 ...I certainly don't know more, but i have faith in my own ability to make a sound informed researched judgement...And i'm sure you have that same faith in your assessments. No, I don't have the "faith" you have. I saw Jason's poor mechanics immediately, but it wasn't until Al Saunders pointed out the same flaws that I felt confident in my judgment. I saw Cutler's ability watching one half of one game, but I wasn't confident about my judgment until I read ESPN's article quoting NFL scouts and one unidentified GM raving about him. You don't seem to be bothered that your opinion runs against expert opinion. I think you value your opinion too highly. At the time Cutler had great value where now he probably has lesser value...Why do you assume he has lesser value? GMs and scouts don't form their opinions based on the team the QB plays for, so they don't change them based on the team the QB plays for.And i would have to consider the GM of Chicago's assessment of Cutler as skewed because he willing to give up a king's ransom to get him.Well, obviously, he has a very high opinion of Jay, but why is his opinion "skewed?" He could be wrong, but his is an expert opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 No you didn't.You're just a fan. You know nothing. See how easy that is Oldfan? Sure, it's easy to disagree. Giving sound reasons for it -- not so easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheItalianStallion Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Newsflash:You must now be a world famous chef before knowing if a steak is overcooked. Seriously, where do some of you people come from? Cosell is pointing out the same things that everyone else here, after a ton of games, already knows. If you don't have anything to add to the thread, then don't post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheItalianStallion Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 hes on pace for 20 TDs and 16 INTs, which is a little above a 1:1 ratio, which is not good.He's on pace for 21 TDs (22 if you include his rushing TD, though not including it is understandable, since other QBs also have rushing TDs) and 15 INTs, and only 6 of his INTs have been his fault, though granted there've also been 2 dropped INTs. Now that he has solid yards & ypa, why is it that these things don't seem to matter as much to JC critics as they did last year? we have solid WRs, they look worse because campbell is weak.They weren't solid until fairly recently. The TB game was their worst, as illustrated by the fact that they were being blanketed by one of the worst defenses in the league, despite them devoting a man to spy on JC.our running game has been bad this year but campbell has had a great running game in the past and produced next to nothing with it.Even if that were true (it's not), it's moot. He's shown this year that he can put up at least decent production even without much of a running game or good pass protection (he had good protection in the NO game, but it regressed against Oakland). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselPwr44 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 If you don't have anything to add to the thread, then don't post. So, you're in the camp that fans cannot recognize good and bad QB play too? Will wonders never cease to amaze?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 You don't seem to be bothered that your opinion runs against expert opinion. I think you value your opinion too highly. Dude, you still haven't pointed out how my opinion differs from the 'expert' opinion. Why does every discussion with you have to be so contentious? Why do you assume he has lesser value? GMs and scouts don't form their opinions based on the team the QB plays for, so they don't change them based on the team the QB plays for. Because the Bears can't trade Cutler and receive the same value they gave up to aquire him. I'm sure their opinion on his ability hasn't changed; which i said in my previous post. Well, obviously, he has a very high opinion of Jay, but why is his opinion "skewed?" He could be wrong, but his is an expert opinion. If you can't see why his opinion of Cutler's value would be skewed by the fact that he thinks highly of Cutler then i'll never be able to explain it you. Anyway, i would still like to know your opinion about whose situation was worse: Campbell last year or Cutler this yearOriginally I don't want to debate the issue with you, i'm just curious of your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Dude, you still haven't pointed out how my opinion differs from the 'expert' opinion. I shouldn't have to point out the obvious: you have a lower opinion of Jay Cutler than several experts who have publically commented on him. Why does every discussion with you have to be so contentious? Why do you think that? It's not true. Because the Bears can't trade Cutler and receive the same value they gave up to aquire him. The winner of an auction usually overpays. However, I'd bet the other clubs that would be interested would not be put off by Cutler's Chicago performance. If you can't see why his opinion of Cutler's value would be skewed by the fact that he thinks highly of Cutler then i'll never be able to explain it you.Angelo's opinion of Cutler's value is based on his opinion of Cutler. What the hell is "skewed" about that? Everybody's opinion of Cutler's value is based on their opinion of him. Anyway, i would still like to know your opinion about whose situation was worse: Campbell last year or Cutler this yearOriginally I answered your question with "Who knows?" Translation: I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I shouldn't have to point out the obvious: you have a lower opinion of Jay Cutler than several experts who have publically commented on him. I have a high opinion of Cutler, my opinion of Campbell is only slight'y below Cutler. I agree with the experts that rate Campbell highly. I answered your question with "Who knows?" Translation: I don't know. Okay, i just figured you would have an opinion on it. HTTR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I have a high opinion of Cutler, my opinion of Campbell is only slight'y below Cutler.I agree with the experts that rate Campbell highly. Who are those experts? I haven't read or heard any that rise above my own opinion of Jason -- a grade C performer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobisimo Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 Cosell has a new write-up for this week: REDSKINS OFFENSE V. RAIDERS DEFENSE http://www.fantasyguru.com/StaffBlog/2009/12/15/cosells-coaching-tape-week-fourteen-121509-notes/ * My sense watching the Redskins offense is that both the OL and Campbell at times struggle with pre snap recognition of pressures * Campbell still struggled to process information quickly after the snap of the ball, He again missed some downfield opportunities that presented themselves based on safety rotation * Jones started at LT for the Redskins – Overall, the Redskins revamped OL is a slow and unathletic group * Campbell not very comfortable in the pocket, Not a lot of poise and composure – Tendency to be a little late with his intermediate and downfield throws * Thomas no play speed, He looked slow getting off the ball and running routes * Raiders predominant man-to-man coverage concepts, Redskins receivers struggled to separate * Davis good movement skills as a receiver, Quick getting into his routes from a LOS TE position – Not a “Joker” TE, More of a LOS TE; Not the kind of athlete that will win one-on-one matchups on the perimeter * Campbell tendency to play a little fast, Moving in the pocket at times when he did not need to, Hurried himself * Redskins struggled with blitz, RB Ganther showed some difficulties with pre snap recognition – Overall, Redskins vulnerable to pressure * Redskins OL not a consistent pass protecting unit, Too many times they lost individual matchups * Redskins run game became a factor as the game progressed, The OL began to control the line of scrimmage, Ganther was the predominant feature back * Mason was the back on the final FG drive late in the fourth quarter * Redskins offense very limited, both in terms of personnel and design; Not a very expansive pass game – Ultimately Campbell lacks the necessary attributes to be a consistent NFL QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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