eboyer Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 Originally posted by SonnyJ Whoops, my bad. I thought I saw him listed as a rookie on a roster somewhere. I take it he's played very little though, if at all. Wouldn't this be like the Redskins letting Thompson go and counting on Cliff Russell to take the pressure off of Rod Gardner (if they hadn't signed LC)? It was an easy mistake. So is Noble as capable of a DT as Gardner is as a WR? I would call Gardner a playmaker with still unrealized potential. I think Noble has reached his peak value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 If there was ever a tool - then you eric - are one. Art et al have said repeatedly that the POSITION that Noble played commanded double teams. He's backed it up with numerous articles that support this supposition. Do you deny that Noble garnered double teams last year? He never was double teamed - thats what you are saying, right? Yes or no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkPSkins Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 Is this guy assuming we need Noble to get doubled to take pessure off of the other no name DT we have? Or is assuming the Cowboys won't miss him? Or is he saying that Glover will improve now that Noble is gone? What is he saying exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 Only the shadow knows, Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eboyer Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 Originally posted by The Evil Genius If there was ever a tool - then you eric - are one. Art et al have said repeatedly that the POSITION that Noble played commanded double teams. He's backed it up with numerous articles that support this supposition. Do you deny that Noble garnered double teams last year? He never was double teamed - thats what you are saying, right? Yes or no? Noble was seldom double teamed. When he was double teamed, it was not at the expense of Glover being single teamed. For this reason Art's premise that Glover needs Noble is wrong and he is the tool. It is a schooling in the classic sense as anybody that is honest about football would agree with me. It is crazy to double a player of Noble's limited abilities. He can't collapse the pocket our chase down a run play away from him, so what is the point of doubling him? I think what confuses Art is on running plays it is the NT's job to try to take on two blockers so one of them cannot immediately get on the lb's. This is not Noble being double teamed though. Quit the opposite since the OL doesn't want to use two blockers on him, they want to get to the LB. This aspect of his job does not impact Glover the way Art would have you think, it impacts the LB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eboyer Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 Originally posted by MarkPSkins Is this guy assuming we need Noble to get doubled to take pessure off of the other no name DT we have? Or is assuming the Cowboys won't miss him? Or is he saying that Glover will improve now that Noble is gone? What is he saying exactly? Art is saying that Glover needs Noble and I am disagreeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkPSkins Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 Glover appears to need someone and I doubt that Blade, Myers or Nix will be the someone he needs. Glover will continue to get the double until there is someone else next to him that needs a double. If one were to ask Glover he would probably say that he needs Noble more than those other guys, but of course, that's just my opinion and we know how much wait an opinion holds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 Eboyer, The sad part here is you're not disagreeing with me WHATSOEVER. You have admitted repeatedly that Glover isn't that good when he's doubled. You have said he needs to have a guy playing next to him who will command the doubles. And, therefore, you are 100 percent in agreement with the whole of the world as to who is more important to the other. Glover needs, as I said, Noble or his type to be successful. Noble doesn't need Glover or his type to play his game. Period. It's not even that difficult to process, is it? No one here has said Glover wasn't doubled. Simply that Noble did command doubles, as has been proven without a shadow of a doubt. Glover would often have single blocking, beat his man and get chipped by the back, which means he was doubled. But, Glover was infrequently doubled by the center when Noble was in the game. Period. Why? Because Noble was on the center. He lined up and took the center on. The second guard didn't then swoop around and block Glover. He took on Noble at the line. Glover was, when Noble was there, almost always left in single blocking on the one guard. Now, when lesser players like Nix were in the game you're right that Glover would see guard, center combos because Nix couldn't hold the center and the center could release. Glover requires a man like Noble more than Noble requires a man like Glover because of the distinct differences in their game. Whether you have a guy left who is like Noble is an open question. What we know is what Noble did for you the last two years. He did the exact same thing with Myers as he did with Glover. Once again, proving my point. Noble does what he does regardless of who's next to him. Glover can ONLY do what he does when he's got a guy like Noble next to him. If Blade is that, then you're ok. Nix wasn't, obviously. If Blade isn't, you're doomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eboyer Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 Originally posted by MarkPSkins Glover appears to need someone and I doubt that Blade, Myers or Nix will be the someone he needs. Glover will continue to get the double until there is someone else next to him that needs a double. I don't disagree. For Glover to be most affective he needs somebody else next to him that can also collapse the pocket. My only disagreement is that Noble was ever that guy. If one were to ask Glover he would probably say that he needs Noble more than those other guys, but of course, that's just my opinion and we know how much wait an opinion holds. Glover is a sharp guy. If somebody asked him this he would likely say "no comment", or he would side with a current teammate. None of that changes the fact that Glover had his worst year of his career while lining up next to Noble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 None of that changes the fact that Glover had his worst year of his career while lining up next to Noble. Out or curiosity, what are you basing that on? Stats alone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eboyer Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 Originally posted by The Evil Genius Out or curiosity, what are you basing that on? Stats alone? About the midpoint of the season Glover mentioned how frustrating the year had been for him. He sounded apologetic. Statistically I think his rookie year was his worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eboyer Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 Originally posted by Art Eboyer, The sad part here is you're not disagreeing with me WHATSOEVER. You have admitted repeatedly that Glover isn't that good when he's doubled. You have said he needs to have a guy playing next to him who will command the doubles. And, therefore, you are 100 percent in agreement with the whole of the world as to who is more important to the other. We agree up to the point of you claiming Noble is that guy. edit: I would also point out thay the DT next to him doesn't have to be the guy either. If Ekuban would draw a double team it would have the same result. And for those people with an open mind. Watch Noble on a pass play. Even lining up directly on the center he is slow enough for a guard to block him leaving the center and other guard free to double the good DT. Of course this is a moot point on your team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyJ Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Originally posted by eboyer It was an easy mistake. So is Noble as capable of a DT as Gardner is as a WR? I would call Gardner a playmaker with still unrealized potential. I think Noble has reached his peak value. Well, no. I was actually equating Noble w/Thompson in my analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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