Art Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Shawn, Myers was on the field with Noble. I know that because in the last game against Dallas that was the case. Does that mean Myers is an effective replacement for Glover since he clearly spelled Glover? Or does it mean he spelled Glover? I recommend you read over this thread if you're concerned by how I view stats of defensive lineman. But, what we can agree on is that teams usually start their best players. Over the last 32 games when one guy is always the starter over other guys, you kind of know precisely what the team feels the player's worth is. And when that same team went out and tried to bring the player back you know what they hoped to accomplish in the future. It is absolutely sound practice to rotate players along the defensive line. Just as Glover was rotated last year. Watch the last game if you've forgotten. As to Cowboy fan fiction though, can I ask how 7-9 is two games over .500 exactly? One win makes it .500, right? Isn't that one game under .500? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom [Giants fan] Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Well, the Giants have been better than both of your teams so . Ohhhh, I am in a rowdy mood for this coming season!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ænima Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Originally posted by Art As to Cowboy fan fiction though, can I ask how 7-9 is two games over .500 exactly? One win makes it .500, right? Isn't that one game under .500? He was talking about the last 3 years, not last season. Sorry I just wanted to correct you before he had the pleasure of doing so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 I know Enima. But, then I'd still have the same question. Two years at .500 and one year at one game below .500 makes three years at one game below .500. I like to set traps to see if a person made a mistake or is just stupid. This is a perfect example that you blew for me with Shawn. But, I thank you for the help . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ænima Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 You're right, for some reason I was thinking we went 7-9 twice in the last 3 years :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eboyer Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 You do appreciate, do you not, that three 5-11s in a row is something substantially less than what the Redskins have done, right? I understand that you believe 23 regular season wins with 0 playoff appearances is substantially more succesful then 15 regular season wins and 0 playoff appearances. It appears we have a slightly different opinions on how to score season achievement and a substantially larger one on the definition of substantial. While the Redskins haven't won a ton of games over the same span, what can not be said for them is that they've been horrid. Funny, but I recall otherwise. Right or wrong the Redskins have been a constant source of ridicule over the past three seasons and the few national spotlight games that come to memory were extremely horrible. Here is a quote from Spurrier: "We're not in the panic mode yet, but the way we played the other night, we are in the panic mode. That was a horrible, pitiful performance by the team." And, according to Noble, he didn't like all the losing down there and when he came here he knew there was less losing being done here at present. So you got all that out of Nobles statement? Noble left the Cowboys to play for a team that he has beaten 5 out of 6 times because he is tired of all the losing. Good thing Dallas didn't agree to his intial demands so he can go to such a proven winner! The point though is a proven one. In your mind Dallas, an awful football team capable of three straight 5-11 finishes, somehow has equal players in reserve for every starter they lose. This is the funniest thing you have written. What's ironic is it is complete fiction coming from you. Because I feel a low round draft pick like Nix can occupy space as well as an undrafted player like Noble I now believe Dallas "has equal players in reserve for every starter they lose."? the Cowboys wanted him to start again. Evidently the Cowboys felt he was better than Nix. More fiction on your part. It is common knowledge that Dallas wanted to upgrade the tackle position. Your own link on the matter refers to Noble as nothing more then a Role Player which I would call a pretty accurate term. Dallas lost depth and the whole defense could suffer for it but it is still my Belief that Nix is equal to Noble. My opinion is off of watching the two perform over a sixteen game season. What are your qualifications in forming an opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Starting with the last first, "Dallas lost depth and the whole defense could suffer for it but it is still my Belief that Nix is equal to Noble. My opinion is off of watching the two perform over a sixteen game season. What are your qualifications in forming an opinion?" My qualifications are some mild connection with reality. The oft-repeated, always ignored statements of fact that Noble started every game the last two years over Nix for a reason that goes beyond the equality of the two players. The statement of fact that Dallas offered him a contract to start again. You see, the ONLY way a person can draw the conclusion that Nix is an equal option to Noble is by being a Cowboy fan who simply gets to have a pass on any real expression of intelligence until death does he part. For the rest, no quotation is necessary. You believe 15-33 is similar to 23-25. Gotcha. Very close indeed. You believe the guy who never once got to start over Noble is equal to him. And the other guy, Myers, who started the year before, but who sat the bench when Glover signed, is also equal. Gotcha. Equal is as equal does. Nonsensical imbecility is not all that surprising coming from a Cowboy fan. It's just somewhat amusing that you don't see the general nature of the questions asked of you are asked because they seem to fit so very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJWatson3 Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 this guy has more fight in him than the cowboy players... he is relentless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Glass Joe on Punch Out. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eboyer Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 My qualifications are some mild connection with reality. The oft-repeated, always ignored statements of fact that Noble started every game the last two years over Nix for a reason that goes beyond the equality of the two players. The statement of fact that Dallas offered him a contract to start again. So you base your entire belief on who starts? If the two players were truly equal and Noble had been the starter, then why would anything change? Are you aware that the starting CB in week one was cut in week two? That alone completely shoots your idiotic theory out of the water. My evaluation is based on actually watching the two players play the game. You should give that a try for a change Art. Of course then you would have to come clean and admit you don't have a clue about Nix and Noble because you really didn't get an opportunity to see them play more then a couple games. That makes your written opinion equal to toilet paper in my book. You believe the guy who never once got to start over Noble is equal to him. And the other guy, Myers, who started the year before, but who sat the bench when Glover signed, is also equal. Gotcha. Equal is as equal does. As I have already stated I never said anything about Myers. I don't know where this keeps coming from but it speaks volumes about your debate position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 I apologize for that little mistake in games under .500. you are correct its one game under .500, but nevertheless you get the point. small mis-calculation on my part. art, you mentioned that myers and noble were on the field at the same time and I don't doubt that. they did play in some defensive situations together, but myers also substituted for noble not just glover, since glover played majority of the snaps and it would be foolish for dallas not to let their best DT play majority of the defensive snaps. One game in the season doesnot a conclusion make, but I guess that's what you are basing your judgement on. again, was noble a better player than Nix. YES. if that's the point you are trying to make then there is not argument. But how much better was noble than his backups Nix and Myers? that's the point of the debate. The difference was not as much as you portray it to be. You point to the starting status of noble as proof of your point, yet starting doesnot equal to contribution. do theams start their better or best players. YES. but BEST player doesnot equal to highly talented player. Dallas over the span has started their best players and as you have pointed out repeatedly they didn't have much talent on their team. So if noble is not so highly talented per your own statements regarding cowboys void of talent, then how much difference is there between him and his backups? did cowboys want to keep Noble? yes, but at what price? not the price that noble was asking. Did the cowboys try to keep noble? yes, but not at Noble's asking price. Noble clearly didn't fall into cowboys plan for the future knowing that they have to upgrade their DL. as I said before you don't build around Noble like talent, you build around Glover or players of his status. Obviously the skins may have felt that their DL was talented enough within their defensive schemes that Noble fills a role. Are they right in their assessment? I guess we all have to wait and see, since they have not shown they have had the ability to put together a dominant DL yet (and niether have the cowboys). But given the coaching changes in both camps we have to wait and see how things work themselves out. as I also mentioned, players like noble are available each year in FA. Not every team can have Sapp, McFarland and Rice on the DL. Even they have a role player on their DL. Dallas needs to evaluate what it has, so they know what it needs to do. Did they want noble back? yes, at a role player capacity at low price. and as I said those type of players are available each year. will they need a role player in the future? yes and they will probably either promote from within or sign a cheap FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Eboyer, It's good to know a guy who's started 41 straight games for you is similar to a guy who started a single game. You see, I didn't say Westbrook was better than Ross because ultimately, Ross started more and won the job. I'm saying that in 32 games that Nix has been a Cowboy he's had a sum total of 0 starts. That's zero. None. Nada. Zippo. In that same span, a guy playing the same spot and filling the same role has 32 starts. Now, let's see. What are the the commonalities here? Anyone? Now, from the way it looks, it seems that for the entire time Nix has been a Cowboy he's never started. And for the entire time someone else has. And, that someone was asked to return to start again. And, by your OWN assessment -- which itself is false -- Nix and Noble split equal time over the final eight games of the season at the same position playing the same role and Nix managed to be in on three plays while Noble managed to be in on 19. You are the ONLY person who's confused, which, absolves you of the generic Cowboy fan symptoms I've associated with you. Even Shawn agrees Noble is better. He just said so. Same with Dale. Same, really, with every Cowboy fan. You see, the obviousness of it is clear to everyone but you which puts you into a special category of stupid on par with QCard, and I have hopes you'll even be able to surpass him. Shawn, as for you, I'm glad you finally arrived at the party. Yes, Noble is better. How much better is as clear as how much more valuable the Cowboys deemed him to be on a game by game by every single game basis when compared to Nix. It's really not all that hard. Though, it is amusing to see you argue since Dallas hasn't had much talent the last few years then how big a difference could there really be between Noble and his backups. Replace Noble with Glover. If you won't, then you have no point. Is there a drop off behind Coakley? Fortunately no one is confused by whether or not Noble is an All Pro. He's what he is. And what he is was better than what you have left. That's pretty much been the point for several pages now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eboyer Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 It's good to know a guy who's started 41 straight games for you is similar to a guy who started a single game. You see, I didn't say Westbrook was better than Ross because ultimately, Ross started more and won the job. Obviously you would be shocked that I felt Hambrick was better (not equal) to Emmitt last year as well. I could care less if Emmitt got the start. Based on my observations Nix was equal to Noble and Troy was better then Emmitt. You are the ONLY person who's confused, which, absolves you of the generic Cowboy fan symptoms I've associated with you. Since this is the closest you have ever come to admitting you were wrong I will end the discussion with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Uh, Eboyer, perhaps I'm feverish or something and have lost my touch, or, more likely, you are just too slow to realize you've been insulted, but, I was actually making fun of you by saying you no longer qualify as generally stupid, you qualify as specifically so. As for your observations, let me just say, they reinforce that conclusion and generally cause jolly laughter when witnessed. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eboyer Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Uh, Eboyer, perhaps I'm feverish or something and have lost my touch, or, more likely, you are just too slow to realize you've been insulted, but, I was actually making fun of you by saying you no longer qualify as generally stupid, you qualify as specifically so. As for your observations, let me just say, they reinforce that conclusion and generally cause jolly laughter when witnessed. Thanks. [/b] Given the number of innacuracies and stupid generalizations in your posts your opinion of me means nothing. You admitted you were wrong and I can bow out with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 You're right, Eboyer, I was wrong to include you among the general mindlessness typical of a Cowboy fan. Yours goes even further to a singular and great degree and when I'm wrong I like to admit it. Thanks for keeping me straight on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJWatson3 Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 eboyer, i see you are up to ten posts... and you have already been bested by art in a battle of the minds... don't be ashamed it has happened to most every member of the board (myself included), although not usually within their first few posts... let's just say you started off on the wrong foot. from now on you might want to think before you post. or someone will jump all over you...:box: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 art, pretty slick there dude, again you skirt the issue. you want to win your point without admiting to much else. he is better than what's left. is that your whole point? I don't think most cowboy fans argue that. but how much better? is noble so GREATLY different than his backups? is he that much of the difference. now where did the statement of replacing noble with glover come from? I am not sure if that makes sense. The point was that Noble shared time with other DTs in a rotation in order to compensate for the short comings of dallas at that position (I mean even you have to know, since it was so obvious). Much like what's been pointed to here regarding the 7 or 8 man rotation that might be instituted for the redskins this year to overcome their talent short coming on the DL. That fact about the cowboys can not be argued. again, did noble start? YES, did he share rotation significantly with his backups? YES. once again, starting and contributing are two different concepts. Clearly noble didn't have what it takes to be that much of a difference maker, if he had to share significant playing time with others, further observed by lack of great interest in him in the FA given that his old team desparate and void in talent (as you put it) wasn't willing to pay him a sum of money that in this day and age of FA is not considered a huge some by any one's standard. (I have to scour the old news to see how much interest there was in Noble outside of Washington and Dallas). well, if it makes you feel good to feel that you got a player of great significnace, then here it goes. " you got a great great player, that's absolutley great against the run and has yet to reach his potential. He played on a crappy team and was a main stay of the DL. Without him the cowboys are lost, the redskins finally after years of searching found the perfect compliment to BDW, which will help him reach his pinnacle once again like he did in that 10 or 11 game stretch sometimes ago. we as cowboys fans mourn the loss of Noble from our starting lineup and without him we have no chance since he was a starter for such a long time on a talentless tri- 5-11 team. we are going to have such a hard time replacing such a invaluable STARTER on the team. He may have been a cornerstone that we should have kept. a player of his ability and stature will be difficult to replace in FA. OH GOD what are we going to do without Noble? (insert a panic attack of your choice here). How are we going to replace his contribution?. what are we to do? who will start in his place? (insert more panic attack here)." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eboyer Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Originally posted by AJWatson3 eboyer, i see you are up to ten posts... and you have already been bested by art in a battle of the minds... don't be ashamed it has happened to most every member of the board (myself included), although not usually within their first few posts... let's just say you started off on the wrong foot. from now on you might want to think before you post. or someone will jump all over you...:box: Bested? That is laughable. Do you swallow for him too? Art was forced to admit his evaluation is not based on watching the two players actually play. That alone outed Art as a phony. His opinion on Noble vs Nix is meaningless. His entire debate centered around how he views all Cowboys fans and not on what I had actually said. You probably think he bested Scott David when most people think Scott made him look extremely silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Cowboys fans, be nice! This is a Redskins board and we are guests here. Don't cause Art to get overheated. It serves no purpose. You can't change his opinion or even influence it. Be nice! It's a great board and we want to be invited back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eboyer Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Originally posted by Angus Cowboys fans, be nice! This is a Redskins board and we are guests here. Don't cause Art to get overheated. It serves no purpose. You can't change his opinion or even influence it. Be nice! It's a great board and we want to be invited back. The difference is I state my opinion as opinion. Art states opinion as fact. Without watching the two players he can state such a thing as fact is hilarious. Phony is too nice of a word for the actions he is engaged in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Uh, Eboyer, I never said my observation on Noble versus Nix was not based on watching them play. I said I don't even have to GET to that point to have the answer in hand. It's a fact that the player who started every game that Nix has been in Dallas is not named John Nix. I don't even have to approach observational abilities which far exceed yours to make a point. In every aspect that measures a player Noble is better. From being the starter, to outperforming Nix at the same spot with the same number of snaps as assessed by you. From being offered a deal to return to start to Dallas having to regroup to sign Myers back to attempt to fill the void. And, every single observerational quality that can be assigned to Noble versus Nix suggests Noble is superior as assessed even by every other Cowboy fan in this thread. Again, the only admission on my part is you're too stupid to be lumped in with the rest. You're in a class by yourself . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eboyer Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Uh, Eboyer, I never said my observation on Noble versus Nix was not based on watching them play. I said I don't even have to GET to that point to have the answer in hand. It's a fact that the player who started every game that Nix has been in Dallas Wow, you do know what a fact is. I don't even have to approach observational abilities which far exceed yours to make a point. In every aspect that measures a player Noble is better. Oops, here is an opinion stated as fact. I witnessed no dropoff in run defense when Nix spelled Noble. At times it seemed like the complete opposite. Of course to get an honest evaluation you would of had to watch more then a couple of games and would have to realize that who is named the starter can be political or based on seniority. Apparently in your mind Campo was completely capable of player evaluation since you put so much emphasis on his decision to start Noble in every game. It seems the only proof you needed on who is better was Snyder opening his checkbook to Noble. This is as acccurate a method of evaluation as basing it on who started I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Matt Kyriacou Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Originally posted by eboyer Of course to get an honest evaluation you would of had to watch more then a couple of games and would have to realize that who is named the starter can be political or based on seniority. Huh? This is the NFL. He who plays best..............plays. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eboyer Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Originally posted by Matt Kyriacou Huh? This is the NFL. He who plays best..............plays. Period. Here are some question for you: 1) when two players are equal how do you decide which starts? 2) Are all coaches equal in evaluating talent 3) Does salary or draft position ever play a role? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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