CBSSports - O-line Problems article.

[MattFancy]

I think our OL will be solid this year. With Samuels and Thomas being healthy again, plus the addition of Dockery, and hopefully having Jansen or Heyer step up and play RT. We definitely don't have the best OL in the league, but its far from the worst. Just because we don't draft an OL in the 1st round every year doesn't mean we aren't trying to address the OL.

Look at the Giants OL, how many 1st rounders do they have? Chris Snee (2nd), David Dehil (5th), Rich Seubert (UDFA), Shaun O'Hara (UDFA), Kareem McKenzie (3rd). So the Giants who arguably have one of the best lines in football have 0 1st rounders on their OL.

We draft OL and bring in UDFAs every offseason. Just because we don't take one in the 1st round doesn't mean we aren't trying to develop talent.

[kuraitengai]

he makes some contradictory statements

he says we didn't upgrade, but Dockery is a clear upgrade, he ingores Heyer's development

says the Skins should have drafted replacements in 08, what was Rhinehart?

Lombardi? eh

youd love the comment i actually left on the bottom of the article yesterday after i first saw it.

called him out on his selective journalism with the 'didnt like the dockery signing...ignored the o-line' statement.

posted as tigernhu2k over there.

[stoney26]

no it wasn't, the problem was more Peters

Dockery and Samuels were probably the best left side of any OL his last two seasons in DC

Heyer has played at a high level, and see above for the rest

He said the Skins should have drafted OL in 08.... whether Rhinehart starts or not, doesn't change.....

How does it feel living in La La Land Bubba??

[DCDiesel44]

I think many people are overreacting in regards to our offensive line. Our line is good enough for a formidable run as long as guys stay healthy. Personally I think many offensive lines would have dwindled as the season went along had they sustained the injuries that we were faced with. Granted some of those injuries were due to age but everyone is gonna be 100% physically and mentally by the time the season starts and with another year in the system and developing under Bugel, our back-ups shouldn't be too shabby either. The Redskins get the criticism they do because we are an easy target, and rightfully so. We spend lots of money and finish at or around .500 and also the bottom of the NFC East. I just happen to believe that this year it seems to be a bit overblown.

[bleed4skins]

I watch the NFLN a lot and Michael Lombardi hates on the Skins. He hated the Deangelo Hall resigning. He hated the Haynesworth signing for about a week and now he loves it. I take everything he says witha grain of salt. He said it about 50 times on air that we over paid for Hall and how he isn't even that good. He alwys brings up how he made all these great decisions when he was a GM. Charlie Casserly craps on everything Lombari says.

[#98QBKiller]

he makes some contradictory statements

he says we didn't upgrade, but Dockery is a clear upgrade, he ingores Heyer's development

says the Skins should have drafted replacements in 08, what was Rhinehart?

Lombardi? eh

Dockery is only an upgrade in terms of youth. Kendall was a great pass-protector and run blocker and he didn't get a lot of penalties. Dockery is notorious for false starts (here and in Buffalo) and his side of the line gave up a ton of sacks in Buff as well.

I'll take a wait-and-see approach with Dock, either way we'd be smart to re-sign Kendall as a backup (if he'll agree to it) just in case.

[Dick Edds]

Your right about signing Dockery is not going to solve our problems. You also forgot that the SUPERBOWL CHAMPS HAD ONE OF THE WORST O-LINE IN THE LEAGUE. ben roethlisberger got sacked 2nd most in the leage. I am not stating that we do not need major help on our O-line, but what can we do as fans.

I agree, I'd also note that in '07 the league was just about to give up on Eli Manning as well. He did not have a great OL, though they started playing great at the right time, and last year they carried that success over for the most part. I give the Gmen's DL all the credit for winning that SB. Again, while their OL play got better and they seemed to build cohesion, they didn't go out and sign bunch of OL FA's, they had a few draft prospects that were developed and some older OL'man that stayed healthy. The fact is NO ONE knows what Rhineheart(sp?) is or will be, and NO ONE knows whether or not Heyer has reached his full ceiling either. While we didn't draft a top OL prospect, I do think Dockery will be an upgrade and hopefully our QB will improve enough to hide the OL shortcomings. Again, it is a team sport and all the players have to work together. I won't say we don't need to upgrade our OL, but I will say that this year the chips will fall, and we should know who is done, who has potential and whether or not any of our current OL'man can improve. A dominant defense does not hurt either, hopefully that provides good field position for our offense and we won't be starting at the 20 yard line every possession. Hail.

[Art]

Dockery is an upgrade. Thomas is very talented and capable. Samuels is extremely talented and capable. Rabach is kind of a dog, but he's our dog, bless him. Heyer is an interesting guy because he played so well as a rookie and started so well last year, but couldn't keep it going when he was moved some.

Ultimately Lombardi seeks to have it both ways. He says at 6-2 he looked dumb, but by 8-8 he was right. Maybe. But, at 6-2 some considered our line the BEST in football. Injuries hurt us and could again, as they could most lines. I'm not worried about the line if healthy. If we don't bring Kendall back in reserve, I'd be worried about our line from a depth perspective though.

[VaBeachRedskin]

I think our OL will be solid this year. With Samuels and Thomas being healthy again, plus the addition of Dockery, and hopefully having Jansen or Heyer step up and play RT. We definitely don't have the best OL in the league, but its far from the worst. Just because we don't draft an OL in the 1st round every year doesn't mean we aren't trying to address the OL.

Look at the Giants OL, how many 1st rounders do they have? Chris Snee (2nd), David Dehil (5th), Rich Seubert (UDFA), Shaun O'Hara (UDFA), Kareem McKenzie (3rd). So the Giants who arguably have one of the best lines in football have 0 1st rounders on their OL.

We draft OL and bring in UDFAs every offseason. Just because we don't take one in the 1st round doesn't mean we aren't trying to develop talent.

No we don't draft OL. We have drafted 6 OL in the past 9 drafts with only 2 of them being in the money rounds.

Also the Giants line is misleading as they brought in 2 of those guys through free agency. Two of my favorite lines are the Panthers and Ravens.

Panthers

LT-Jordan Gross (1st)

LG-Travelle Wharton (3rd)

C-Ryan Kalil (2nd)

RG-Keydrick Vincent (signed as a FA)

RT-Jeff Otah (1st)

Ravens

LT-Jared Gaither (Sup 5th)

LG-Ben Grubbs (1st)

C-Matt Birk (signed as a FA)

RG-Marshal Yanda (3rd)

RT-Michael Oher (1st)

The Ravens line really burns me because I think that both Gaither and Oher should be Redskins.

[SonnyJ]

Panthers

LT-Jordan Gross (1st)

LG-Travelle Wharton (3rd)

C-Ryan Kalil (2nd)

RG-Keydrick Vincent (signed as a FA)

RT-Jeff Otah (1st)

Ravens

LT-Jared Gaither (Sup 5th)

LG-Ben Grubbs (1st)

C-Matt Birk (signed as a FA)

RG-Marshal Yanda (3rd)

RT-Michael Oher (1st)

Who are the backups on these lines?

[VaBeachRedskin]

Who are the backups on these lines?

Panthers

T-Geoff Schwartz (7th)

T-Gerald Cadogan (UDFA)

G-Duke Robinson (5th)

G-Mackenzy Bernadeau (7th)

C-Keith Gray (UDFA)

Ravens

T-Willie Anderson (signed as a FA)

T-Adam Terry (2nd)

G-Oniel Cousins (3rd)

C/G-Chris Chester (2nd)

[SonnyJ]

Panthers

T-Geoff Schwartz (7th)

T-Gerald Cadogan (UDFA)

G-Duke Robinson (5th)

G-Mackenzy Bernadeau (7th)

C-Keith Gray (UDFA)

Ravens

T-Willie Anderson (signed as a FA)

T-Adam Terry (2nd)

G-Oniel Cousins (3rd)

C/G-Chris Chester (2nd)

Kinda what I suspected. Not exactly an imposing group. Depth kinda like the Redskins OL.

To be fair, it looks like the Ravens draft quite a few OL, but it doesn't seem these high picks are bearing fruit all the time. I don't know much about their drafted backups (as, I suspect, most don't), but if they're bringing in FAs and 1st round rookies to start over them, then that tells me something about what they think of their capabilities.

[VaBeachRedskin]

Kinda what I suspected. Not exactly an imposing group. Depth kinda like the Redskins OL.

To be fair, it looks like the Ravens draft quite a few OL, but it doesn't seem these high picks are bearing fruit all the time. I don't know much about their drafted backups (as, I suspect, most don't), but if they're bringing in FAs and 1st round rookies to start over them, then that tells me something about what they think of their capabilities.

Oher will be replacing 33 year old Willie Anderson who is on his last legs as is any lineman over 30 is. Chester was drafted as the possible long term answer at C and has some starting experience so his camp battle with Birk should be a good one to watch. Terry has experience starting for the Ravens and Cousins was drafted in the 3rd round to be a backup. They are building a very formidable young that that should be together for a long time. I will never question any move that Ozzie Newsome makes as he has a stellar draft record.

[MattFancy]

No we don't draft OL. We have drafted 6 OL in the past 9 drafts with only 2 of them being in the money rounds.

Also the Giants line is misleading as they brought in 2 of those guys through free agency. Two of my favorite lines are the Panthers and Ravens.

Panthers

LT-Jordan Gross (1st)

LG-Travelle Wharton (3rd)

C-Ryan Kalil (2nd)

RG-Keydrick Vincent (signed as a FA)

RT-Jeff Otah (1st)

Ravens

LT-Jared Gaither (Sup 5th)

LG-Ben Grubbs (1st)

C-Matt Birk (signed as a FA)

RG-Marshal Yanda (3rd)

RT-Michael Oher (1st)

The Ravens line really burns me because I think that both Gaither and Oher should be Redskins.

You can put Oher on there for the Ravens, but how do we know he will be any good? And how is the Giants misleading, they have one of the best OLs in the league and don't have 1 single 1st rounder on it. And looking at both the lines of the Panthers and Ravens, it still shows that OL talent can be found in later rounds. Of the 10 OL from those 2 teams, only 4 were 1st round picks and 2 were UDFAs.

Just because we've only drafted 6 OL the past 9 years doesn't mean much, how many UDFAs have we brought in?

Look at the Colts OL too as another example:

LT Tony Ugoh (2nd)

LG Charlie Johnson (6th)

C Jeff Saturday (UDFA)

RG Mike Pollak (2nd)

RT Ryan Diem (4th)

So another team with a solid OL and 0 1st rounders. I would almost bet that most OLs in the league have no more than 2 1st round starters on their team. We have a great OL coach and can develop some young talent without spending 1st round picks on them.

[SonnyJ]

Oher will be replacing 33 year old Willie Anderson who is on his last legs as is any lineman over 30 is.

You have some proof of this? As soon as an OL hits 30, he's done? Fascinating.

Chester was drafted as the possible long term answer at C and has some starting experience so his camp battle with Birk should be a good one to watch.

Yep. They like him so much that they brought in a 33-yo (who, based on your statement above, should be way past his last legs) and gave that old guy a nice chunk of change. I'm certain that this is going to be a highly competitive battle for the C position. BTW, Chester was drafted in the 2nd round and is going into his fourth season. Wouldn't you think that, if the team thought he was a bona fide talent, Chester would be entrenched in the C position by now and they wouldn't have to sign 33-yo FAs on their last legs?

Terry has experience starting for the Ravens

Heyer has experience starting for the Redskins and he didn't cost the Redskins a 2nd round pick! If he had potential, why would the Ravens have spend a 1st on a T this season? Again, Terry is going into his FIFTH season and the Ravens felt so good about him that they drafted someone else for his spot.

Cousins was drafted in the 3rd round to be a backup

Wow. The Ravens FO is awesome. They're so good that they have the luxury of spending a 3rd round pick on a career backup, because they can just get their starters from FA or later round picks in supplemental drafts.

They are building a very formidable young that that should be together for a long time.

Well, according to you, they're formidable. Their backups appear to be has-beens or never-weres. They just got an old guy to be their starting C. Another guy is a rookie and a completely unknown quantity. Let's hold off on enshrining them in Canton.

I will never question any move that Ozzie Newsome makes as he has a stellar draft record.

Ozzie Newsome is great at drafting defensive players. Offensively, he's been considerably more suspect. Ironic, isn't it?

[Art]

You are circumventing the truth. There is a difference between ignoring and neglect. This team is guilty of the later not the former.

We're not even doing the latter.

Randy Thomas, Casey Rabach and Pete Kendall are all people we brought in to play the line and each has been a starter for us. We've neglected the line through the draft, but we've given it great attention and funding both in retaining Jansen and Samuels as well as bringing in three, and with Dockery, a fourth starting level player.

With Jansen REALLY suffering from his injuries, the money sunk there hurts more than we'd have hoped at this point. Samuels is still quite good, but, when he went down, the line collapsed.

I'm far higher on Heyer than some here, because he was quite good at right tackle and seems to be a legitimate prospect for us to use on the line. Rinehart is a key for us to get him to develop fully.

[ljs]

for me this is nothing new, not a surprise. I do have faith we will have a much better year though.

[JDOZ84]

I love our O-line, but the reality is that they are past their prime years. Lets break down the 30+ players.

Samuels - Aging. Had a couple of surgeries. Still very solid, but losing burst he once had.

Rabach - Still rock solid. Center isn't quite as physically demanding as the other line slots, so Rabach has more of a "life expectancy".

Thomas - Still solid, no longer dominant. Comming off two years with injury issues. Played through pain last year, but it showed in the line play.

Jansen - Has had injury issues for the lat 3 years. Still solid run blocker, but is medeocre at best in pass protection.

All three of these players are in fact aging. If they weren't affected by injury as often as they are, then they would be solid.

As for the rest...

Dockery is the only lineman we have in his prime.

Despite what many say, Heyer is more solid backup material. I have seen him have issues with pass protection time and time again... and that's supposed to be his strength.

I understand the article's argument was that we didn't draft any linemen in '08, but Reinhart didn't crack the starting lineup once... even w/ Kendall's knees failing, and Thomas having major neck issues.

The rest of our roster consists of UDFAs, Practice sqaud cuts, and journeyman lineman. The most hope we have for our line at this time is a former first round pick who hasn't played in 2 years.

The fact is, we can break just about any article and argue over it, sentence by sentence. It doesn't change the fact that in the heart of his argument, Mr. Limardi is right.

Our wall is aging. Even though the mortar holds, it is all but sand. There is little to prevent a single rock from slipping.

Once one rock falls...

Man I wish more of these people had a realistic view point like you, they keep making excuses for our lame FO. Letting them off the hook for their stupidity. We need more people like you on here.

[hfmonk]

he makes some contradictory statements

he says we didn't upgrade, but Dockery is a clear upgrade, he ingores Heyer's development

says the Skins should have drafted replacements in 08, what was Rhinehart?

Lombardi? eh

Dockery was chased out of town for incompetence and didnt get alot better with the Bills....He is a lateral move at best.

Heyer is developing but could be a bust or a beast or just a servicable backup but no one knows how he will develop this year...he is just waaaaaaay to rough.

Rinehart didnt look that impressive and in the second round there were alot better players available....if we had taken 2 of them instead and not Davis and Kelly then we could have had an upgrade and there was better DL help in the third....we could have addressed that need much better also.

I have a feeling our FO does not know how to draft or trade.

FIRE VINNY!!!!!!!

[VaBeachRedskin]

And looking at both the lines of the Panthers and Ravens, it still shows that OL talent can be found in later rounds. Of the 10 OL from those 2 teams, only 4 were 1st round picks and 2 were UDFAs.

Just because we've only drafted 6 OL the past 9 years doesn't mean much, how many UDFAs have we brought in?

Look at the Colts OL too as another example:

LT Tony Ugoh (2nd)

LG Charlie Johnson (6th)

C Jeff Saturday (UDFA)

RG Mike Pollak (2nd)

RT Ryan Diem (4th)

So another team with a solid OL and 0 1st rounders. I would almost bet that most OLs in the league have no more than 2 1st round starters on their team. We have a great OL coach and can develop some young talent without spending 1st round picks on them.

Keydrick Vincent is the only starter from either the Panthers or Ravens line that went undrafted.

How often do teams find diamonds in the rough? Bringing in a bunch of UDFA doesn't mean much.

Nobody is saying you need to fill your line with first rounders, but a mix of a 1 first rounder, a few second and third rounders, and then shopping for the final piece is fine. Relying on a bunch of UDFAs is unreasonable.

[VaBeachRedskin]

Yep. They like him so much that they brought in a 33-yo (who, based on your statement above, should be way past his last legs) and gave that old guy a nice chunk of change. I'm certain that this is going to be a highly competitive battle for the C position. BTW, Chester was drafted in the 2nd round and is going into his fourth season. Wouldn't you think that, if the team thought he was a bona fide talent, Chester would be entrenched in the C position by now and they wouldn't have to sign 33-yo FAs on their last legs?

How quickly you forget that Jason Brown was the starter before leaving to the Rams in FA this offseason. That could be the reason why Chester was the backup.

Heyer has experience starting for the Redskins and he didn't cost the Redskins a 2nd round pick! If he had potential, why would the Ravens have spend a 1st on a T this season? Again, Terry is going into his FIFTH season and the Ravens felt so good about him that they drafted someone else for his spot.

Because you don't have a franchise tackle you don't pass on one that is available. Oher will be a stud and was the best OT in the draft.

Wow. The Ravens FO is awesome. They're so good that they have the luxury of spending a 3rd round pick on a career backup, because they can just get their starters from FA or later round picks in supplemental drafts.

Grubbs was a 1st round pick and Yanda was a 3rd round pick. They are the starters over Cousins a 3rd round pick.

Ozzie Newsome is great at drafting defensive players. Offensively, he's been considerably more suspect. Ironic, isn't it?

We'll see how they do now that he has his o-line and QB in order.

[SonnyJ]

How quickly you forget that Jason Brown was the starter before leaving to the Rams in FA this offseason. That could be the reason why Chester was the backup.

Why would they sign Birk to that contract to play backup? Obviously, they didn't have confidence that Chester was capable of filling the role.

Because you don't have a franchise tackle you don't pass on one that is available. Oher will be a stud and was the best OT in the draft.

At least 3 other teams disagree with you. And if you're set with young starters at T, I can't conceive that you would spend a 1st on another one. Unless, you know, if you didn't think the players you had were all that great.

Grubbs was a 1st round pick and Yanda was a 3rd round pick. They are the starters over Cousins a 3rd round pick.

Whatever. He's no better depth than the Redskins have with Reinhart.

We'll see how they do now that he has his o-line and QB in order.

Yep, it's amazing how much smarter a GM/coach looks when he guesses right on QB. Look what it's done for Belichick.