squatch66 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insid...ory?id=3945430 Click link for entire article Was Haynesworth a wise investment? By Bill Barnwell Football Outsiders Sean Gilbert. Bruce Smith. Dana Stubblefield. Deion Sanders. Adam Archuleta. A list of names that makes every Redskins fan shudder. The attempts of the Washington Redskins to add elite (or at least high-priced, in the case of Archuleta) defensive talents to their roster over the past 15 years have ended in misery and infamy. Those five players combined for 20 Pro Bowl appearances before they played for Washington, but failed to earn a trip to Honolulu after signing on the dotted line with the Redskins. Such an inglorious past did not deter owner Daniel Snyder from going after the creme of this year's free agent crop, though. After committing $41 million in guaranteed money to former Titans defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth, the Redskins' front office and their fans are left hoping that Haynesworth's the exception to a brutal history of disappointment. It's easy to start justifying Haynesworth's signing with putative logic, working under the assumptions that signing an elite defensive tackle will improve the Redskins' run defense and create more opportunities for rushing the quarterback. Whether such logic actually applies in reality, though, is up for debate. There have been nine instances since 1994 of a defensive tackle making the Pro Bowl and leaving for a new team in the following offseason. The list includes Chester McGlockton (Kansas City), Dana Stubblefield (Washington), Michael Dean Perry (Denver), Ted Washington (Chicago), Warren Sapp (Oakland), Sam Adams (Oaklans), La'Roi Glover (twice -- Dallas, St. Louis) and Gary Walker, who left the Jaguars for the expansion Houston Texans in 2002. It's a small sample, but players of Haynesworth's caliber rarely leave home. If teams actually got a huge boost in their run defense from shelling out the big bucks for these defensive tackles, we'd see it in the numbers. Instead, those eight teams actually saw their opponent's yards per carry rise by .15 yards the season after acquiring a Pro Bowl defensive tackle. Five of the teams allowed more yards per carry than in the previous year, while three saw a decrease. (We don't include Walker in this analysis because there's no baseline to compare the 2002 Texans against.) Using DVOA -- defense-adjusted value over average, our core metric that adjusts for the context in which yards were gained or lost -- the story's slightly rosier for those teams, but not enough. Those eight teams actually saw their rush defense improve by an average of 2.7 percent. The Redskins had a rush defense DVOA of minus-3.5 percent in 2008, good for 11th in football, and close to their yardage ranking of eighth in the league. What's strange about the decision to sign Haynesworth is that Washington was actually pretty good on the interior already. With Cornelius Griffin leading the way, the Redskins allowed only 3.7 yards per carry on rushes up the middle, 10th best in the league. They were also good in short-yardage situations, stopping teams on 41 percent of carries on third or fourth down with fewer than three yards to go. The rest of the league stopped offenses in those situations only 30 percent of the time. Haynesworth is a two-way player, though. Not only is he the rare defensive tackle with the ability to rush the passer, but he opens up holes for the players around him to get to the quarterback. As NFC East blogger Matt Mosley noted on Friday, Kyle Vanden Bosch has been more than twice as likely to score a sack in games that Haynesworth has played in than the games that Haynesworth's missed due to injury. Those effects are borne out by the impact of those other defensive tackles as well. In the season following those Pro Bowl defensive tackles' arrivals, those eight teams saw their sack rates (total sacks divided by pass attempts against) rise from 6.7 percent to 7.9 percent -- an increase of nearly 18 percent. That's also the place where the Redskins need to make a serious improvement if they want to challenge for the NFC East crown in 2009. Last year, despite adding active sack leader Jason Taylor in a preseason trade, their sack rate of 4.7 percent ranked 27th in the league. Taylor and fellow starting defensive end Andre Carter combined for only 7.5 sacks a year after each were in double-digits. Washington also mustered a total of five sacks out of their linebackers and defensive backs, a year after their back seven combined for 11 quarterback takedowns. Haynesworth's more likely to have an impact there than he will against the running game. It's impossible to knock Haynesworth's talent, and we're not suggesting that we wouldn't want Haynesworth on our team if we had the option. The issue, though, is whether giving Haynesworth one of the biggest contracts in NFL history was a wise investment for the Redskins. When we look at what's happened to comparable players, there's simply no clear-cut evidence indicating that a defensive tackle has a big enough impact on a team's defense to justify such a huge salary. Those eight aforementioned teams gave up an average of 314 points in the season before their big-ticket defensive tackle arrived, and in the season after, they averaged 311 points. Snyder certainly isn't paying Haynesworth for a difference of one field goal per year. The idea that Haynesworth will definitely have a huge impact on the Redskins' defense, unfortunately for him and Redskins fans, just isn't supported by the data. bubba posted this in the breaking news section. imo they are comparing apples to oranges. the old signings were for guys that were over the hill and looking for one last payday before retirement but haynesworth is in his prime and is the most dominant dtackle in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akorn22 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I get what these analysts are saying, but to me it's different. Snyder is not dishing the money out for one person's talent. He's dishing this money out to get the most out of his other investments of taylor and carter. And wether haynesworth plays as well as he has the past few years or not doen;t matter as much because it's still 330 pounds to block in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nighthawk Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I really wish they would separate the money from the man. He is a vast improvement for this team. A much needed improvement. Every one keeps saying, "a DT of this caliber, rarely makes it to the open market." He did and we got him. He was the number one free agent available and a DT to boot and he'll improve our defense, period. I keep reading that our offense is what needed improvement. Tell me which FA player on offense would have made a difference on our team that was worth spending money on? The one or two that were, were franchised. So we did the best thing for our team and got the best player available at a position we are lacking. Now, if we go into the draft and do the same thing, hopefully we'll come away with an OT, OLB and backups at OG, C and/or DE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1972FAN Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 rehash the same old garbage. Will see come Sept if he was worth it and I'll check for Florio's (ProFootballtalk) and all the haters to see what they say than. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imaneaglesfan Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I really wish they would separate the money from the man. He is a vast improvement for this team. A much needed improvement. Every one keeps saying, "a DT of this caliber, rarely makes it to the open market." He did and we got him. He was the number one free agent available and a DT to boot and he'll improve our defense, period. I keep reading that our offense is what needed improvement. Tell me which FA player on offense would have made a difference on our team that was worth spending money on? The one or two that were, were franchised. So we did the best thing for our team and got the best player available at a position we are lacking. Now, if we go into the draft and do the same thing, hopefully we'll come away with an OT, OLB and backups at OG, C and/or DE. jeff saturday, center, colts, age 33: signed a 3 year deal i believe.. but u guys dont need a pro-bowl center til 2012.. jason brown, center/guard, rams, age 25: signed a 5 year deal.. but u guys dont need any help on your interior line jon stinchcomb, offensive tackle, saints, age 29: signed a 5 year deal.. but u guys dont need an offensive tackle albert haynesworth, defensive tackle, redskins, age 27: signed 7 year deal.. but u guys only had the 4th ranked defense in the league, u needed the defensive tackle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farbod21 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 jeff saturday, center, colts, age 33: signed a 3 year deal i believe.. but u guys dont need a pro-bowl center til 2012..jason brown, center/guard, rams, age 25: signed a 5 year deal.. but u guys dont need any help on your interior line jon stinchcomb, offensive tackle, saints, age 29: signed a 5 year deal.. but u guys dont need an offensive tackle albert haynesworth, defensive tackle, redskins, age 27: signed 7 year deal.. but u guys only had the 4th ranked defense in the league, u needed the defensive tackle Saturday is OLD and his best days are clearly behind him. Our problem isnt bodies, its age. Signing another old OL would be incredibly stupid when we are trying to get younger. Brown is overrated and was pretty expensive for his worth. I do not think hes an upgrade over Rabach, and I think we can find just as good of a player in the 3rd-5th rounds of this years draft. Stichcomb sucks *****. Id rather have a gimpy Jansen and a improving Heyer than Stichcomb's overpaid turnstile. Dont confuse options with good options... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HA1LV1CT0RY Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 rehash the same old garbage. Will see come Sept if he was worth it and I'll check for Florio's (ProFootballtalk) and all the haters to see what they say than. September couldn't be further away it seems. :hammer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Saturday is OLD and his best days are clearly behind him. Our problem isnt bodies, its age. Signing another old OL would be incredibly stupid when we are trying to get younger.Brown is overrated and was pretty expensive for his worth. I do not think hes an upgrade over Rabach, and I think we can find just as good of a player in the 3rd-5th rounds of this years draft. Stichcomb sucks *****. Id rather have a gimpy Jansen and a improving Heyer than Stichcomb's overpaid turnstile. Dont confuse options with good options... I read an article that says Jason Brown handled Albert both times they played last season. Don't know about that. I say if Andre Smith or Michael Oher are available... draft them. If not... look for Brian Orakpo... or then trade down and get Brian Chushing... or Alex Mack... the only guy BJ Raji couldn't get past... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExoDus84 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 jeff saturday, center, colts, age 33: signed a 3 year deal i believe.. but u guys dont need a pro-bowl center til 2012..jason brown, center/guard, rams, age 25: signed a 5 year deal.. but u guys dont need any help on your interior line jon stinchcomb, offensive tackle, saints, age 29: signed a 5 year deal.. but u guys dont need an offensive tackle albert haynesworth, defensive tackle, redskins, age 27: signed 7 year deal.. but u guys only had the 4th ranked defense in the league, u needed the defensive tackle Defensive line was a need for us, if it wasnt evidenced enough by our sack totals. We addressed that need. It instantly upgrades our entire line, not just DT, due to the attention haynesworth demands. This will make our good defense even more stout. We signed dockery, who is younger and more athletic than kendall. Maybe we bring back kendall as a reserve, which would give us some depth. Now, we can use the draft to fill our holes on the line. Seems like a good plan to me. Although I would have liked to sign jason brown, for a person who would most likely play center, he's overpriced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21DIEHARDSKINSFAN21 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 and since when did bruce smith comin here bebad?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misterwookas Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Haynesworth's versatility is what makes him worth the money plus he still has some good years left. He can play inside plus he can play some end. nobody is going to run to his side and when they do our LB are fast enough to stop anything on the outside. A DT who can bring up to 10 sacks on the table is a big plus for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farbod21 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Edit: Nevermind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imaneaglesfan Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Saturday is OLD and his best days are clearly behind him. Our problem isnt bodies, its age. Signing another old OL would be incredibly stupid when we are trying to get younger.Brown is overrated and was pretty expensive for his worth. I do not think hes an upgrade over Rabach, and I think we can find just as good of a player in the 3rd-5th rounds of this years draft. Stichcomb sucks *****. Id rather have a gimpy Jansen and a improving Heyer than Stichcomb's overpaid turnstile. Dont confuse options with good options... yeah jeff saturday is so old peyton made sure he didnt sign elsewhere because he most definitely cannot offer 3 more years of pro-bowl protection. jusitifcation for investing in an already good D by bashing the offensive lineman available makes sense.. im sure if u got jason brown, stinchcomb, and saturday youd b furious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imaneaglesfan Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Defensive line was a need for us, if it wasnt evidenced enough by our sack totals. We addressed that need. It instantly upgrades our entire line, not just DT, due to the attention haynesworth demands. This will make our good defense even more stout.We signed dockery, who is younger and more athletic than kendall. Maybe we bring back kendall as a reserve, which would give us some depth. Now, we can use the draft to fill our holes on the line. Seems like a good plan to me. Although I would have liked to sign jason brown, for a person who would most likely play center, he's overpriced. hahahahaha:hysterical: a skins fan saying something is overpriced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farbod21 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 hahahahaha:hysterical: a skins fan saying something is overpriced Better than being an eagles fan and watching everyone else spend money. Its ok, you can come hold my Lombardi Trophy Only teams that havent won a superbowl hang NFC Championship Banners... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexrode21 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I don't see how they can put out these articles before seeing what Haynesworth can do. I for one believe he'll make a huge difference. Teams have to prepare for a mammoth like him in the middle, and that alone adds intimidation and changes their schemes. Advantage: Redskins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imaneaglesfan Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Better than being an eagles fan and watching everyone else spend money. Its ok, you can come hold my Lombardi Trophy Only teams that havent won a superbowl hang NFC Championship Banners... so you won when i didnt know about football and we did not.. bummer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imaneaglesfan Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 didnt jason taylor just get released? i thought albert was gonna free up the pass rush.. good investment in taylor skins. good investment. offseason champs 25 years and runnin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnFoRcEr_uPu Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I just get tired of hearing people complain about how the Redskins overpaid for Haynesworth and in today's economy. Yet they conveniently leave out how 5 other teams were ready to give him just as much $$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[[ghost]] Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 jeff saturday, center, colts, age 33: signed a 3 year deal i believe.. but u guys dont need a pro-bowl center til 2012..jason brown, center/guard, rams, age 25: signed a 5 year deal.. but u guys dont need any help on your interior line jon stinchcomb, offensive tackle, saints, age 29: signed a 5 year deal.. but u guys dont need an offensive tackle albert haynesworth, defensive tackle, redskins, age 27: signed 7 year deal.. but u guys only had the 4th ranked defense in the league, u needed the defensive tackle All we did was make one of the league's best defenses even better. What did the Eagles do? Did they add a WR? No, its not like Houshmanzadeh is on the market or anything. Did they resign their most recognizable defensive player in the HISTORY of their organization? No, they let him go for a difference of less than $5 million. Alex Mack... the only guy BJ Raji couldn't get past... You're thinking of Eric Wood. Wood handled every DT at the Senior Bowl, including Raji. This happened despite Wood being ranked as the 3rd Center in the draft. Mack and Unger had otherwise unimpressive workouts at the Senior Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 so you won when i didnt know about football and we did not.. bummer You STILL don't know about football... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 The issue, though, is whether giving Haynesworth one of the biggest contracts in NFL history was a wise investment for the Redskins. The reality of the contract has already been reported in the media in numerous places...any writer who hangs onto the "biggest contracts in NFL history" mantra to validate his opinion should just quit before he starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1972FAN Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Majority of the reporters or analysts if you call them that are all negative anyways, screw-em, their not fans anyways. I could care less about their opinions or insite what a joke. I care what happens on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imaneaglesfan Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 ];6182201']All we did was make one of the league's best defenses even better. What did the Eagles do? Did they add a WR? No' date=' its not like Houshmanzadeh is on the market or anything. Did they resign their most recognizable defensive player in the HISTORY of their organization? No, they let him go for a difference of less than $5 million. You're thinking of Eric Wood. Wood handled every DT at the Senior Bowl, including Raji. This happened despite Wood being ranked as the 3rd Center in the draft. Mack and Unger had otherwise unimpressive workouts at the Senior Bowl.[/quote'] the eagles made sure they had 11 draft picks this year, two firsts, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, two 5ths, 2 6ths, and a 7th. we also will receive another 2nd-4th for lito in 2010 depending on how mnay games he starts.. which will be all so heyhey another 2nd. oh and bdawk.. i know such a crime, letting an aging vet go instead of throwing more money thans he's worth at him like the skins.. edit: and just like the skins we had a top 5 defense and an aging offensive line.. the difference? we made the playoffs, and chose to help our aging offensive line by adding another young/promising tackle instead of throwing the bank at fat albert.. one can most definitely not confuse a smart regime for a dumb one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imaneaglesfan Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 You STILL don't know about football... lol i knew this was coming when i typed my response youre so witty! but big deal--neither does your front office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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