Oldfan Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Jason La Canafora in his Post article of 1/21/09 tried to make an argument that the Redskins failure to make the playoffs in 2008 is due to their failure to take linemen in past drafts. He supplied some stats from the draft years 2000-2008 to support his case. JLC did not supply the number of wins each of those teams recorded over that span, so I checked and got some interesting results. The Redskins won more games than the Cardinals and Dolphins over that span even though those two teams drafted a much higher percentage of linemen. The Colts and Patriots won far more games than the Cards and Phins while also drafting a much lower percentage of linemen. Team, wins, percentage of drafted linemen (2000 - 2008): Patriots - 101 - 28.6 Colts - 101 - 29.7 Skins - 64 - 24.6 Dolphins - 62 - 40.0 Cardinals - 52 - 41.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhouse Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Are we talking about drafting linemen in the first/early rounds or in general? Our pass protection and our ability to create pressure on D is pretty weak. So in my eyes we need to address OL/DL in early rounds of the draft not only for next year's winning percentage but also the future of this organization to stay competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngestson Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I guess you would need to add the caveat "pick good linemen". Because we can't seem to pick more then one good player at a time maybe we need focus on linemen. Sort of a shotgun effect. Select 7 linemen and one has to be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngestson Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I guess you would need to add the caveat "pick good linemen". Because we can't seem to pick more then one good player at a time maybe we need focus on linemen. Sort of a shotgun effect. Select 7 linemen and one has to be good. One also has to also take in to consideration that good teams tend to pick linemen in late rounds and have them waiting and developing in the wings until it's time for them to replace the older players. We have sadly not seemed to do this. I am as hopeful about Reinhardt and Goslinger (I know I screwed up the spellings) as anyone but as of yet we just don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I didn't read his article, but maybe the point was regarding the culmination of drafting linemen over a span of years. Look at the results this past season for these teams and see if you'd have traded places with any of them. I doubt that he meant,"draft a lineman and win that year'. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 This is an example of numbers not really telling the entire story... Some teams draft a young nucleus of linemen and they stick, others need to keep drafting them because they keep failing. It can't hurt to continually bring in talented OL and DL players to sort through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamilbone13 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 ...it's what we need...simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasjhughes Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I guess you would need to add the caveat "pick good linemen". Because we can't seem to pick more then one good player at a time maybe we need focus on linemen.Sort of a shotgun effect. Select 7 linemen and one has to be good. 2 probably will. One will be one we cut when made the final roster cut down and the other will be the one who is signed off our practice squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 Are we talking about drafting linemen in the first/early rounds or in general? the percentage reflect the whole draft, but the stats for rounds 1-4 aren't radically different. Our pass protection and our ability to create pressure on D is pretty weak. So in my eyes we need to address OL/DL in early rounds of the draft not only for next year's winning percentage but also the future of this organization to stay competitive. I think the blindside tackle is worth a very high pick, and a stud DE on defense when available; but the Skins have used free agency for the likes of Rabach, Thomas and Griffin in the past. I think they might go there again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maskedsuperstar Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 What is the Skins biggest issue? They don't score points. Yeah, the Skins need to address both lines, but they also could use more threats. Pat White would be a good returner. He is a late round pick but he can help the Skins. ARE is a joke. He never runs up the field. They could use a change of pace back. Kory Sheets? A back that can catch out of the backfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 I guess you would need to add the caveat "pick good linemen". Because we can't seem to pick more then one good player at a time maybe we need focus on linemen.Sort of a shotgun effect. Select 7 linemen and one has to be good. My feel for it is that the problem has been that we haven't been holding onto our picks -- moreso than poor draft selections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 I didn't read his article, but maybe the point was regarding the culmination of drafting linemen over a span of years. Look at the results this past season for these teams and see if you'd have traded places with any of them. I doubt that he meant,"draft a lineman and win that year'. His argument was that the playoff teams this year owed their success to drafting linemen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westcoasthog Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 So the Cards and Dolphins...who are on the rise...drafted linemen and the Redskins...who are on the decline...didn't. I'd say we need to draft more linemen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSHRedskins3ATLBraves3 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 It is because we need them badly. The Pats and Colts didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 This is an example of numbers not really telling the entire story...Some teams draft a young nucleus of linemen and they stick, others need to keep drafting them because they keep failing. It can't hurt to continually bring in talented OL and DL players to sort through. Well, logically if the Patriots are drafting a lower percentage of lineman than the Cards, then they must be drafting a higher percentage at other positions. Does that mean they aren't as good as the Cards in drafting for those other positions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhouse Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 the percentage reflect the whole draft, but the stats for rounds 1-4 aren't radically different.I think the blindside tackle is worth a very high pick, and a stud DE on defense when available; but the Skins have used free agency for the likes of Rabach, Thomas and Griffin in the past. I think they might go there again. I wouldn't mind free agency as long as we don't overpay with players the media and everyone else is in love with...(Jordan Gross, Haynesworth etc.) But we also need to draft linemen in later rounds or pickup undrafted FA and see if they can help out at some point down the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gutlead74 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Plain and simple, those whom dont see the importance of the trenches don't know football. Fantasy and video games have dumbed down fans to the point of embarassment. look deaper, note the consistent winners in college, they always have 1 or 2nd round DL and OL talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 It's also skewed stats. For example, if the Patriots had 9 picks and picked two linemen that is statistically a smaller percentage than if we had four picks and picked 1. On top of that, most of our linemen have been picked in the 6th and 7th rounds. Can diamonds be found there, sure. Is it likely... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 So the Cards and Dolphins...who are on the rise...drafted linemen and the Redskins...who are on the decline...didn't. I'd say we need to draft more linemen. I'd rather have success like the Colts and Patriots have had. The Cards and Phins might flop back again next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhouse Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 David Diehl - 5th round Rich Seubert - Undrafted Shaun O'Hara - Undrafted (Acquired from the Browns as a FA) Chris Snee - 2nd Round Kareem McKenzie - 3rd round That's the Giants OLine. They're pretty good and I give the G-Men credit for putting together this group without spending 1st rounders. So Oldfan I see your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Well, logically if the Patriots are drafting a lower percentage of lineman than the Cards, then they must be drafting a higher percentage at other positions. Does that mean they aren't as good as the Cards in drafting for those other positions? No, I think it means that most teams realize that OL and DL are the two most important positions to address and solidify... Therefore, the Pats have had some very good OL and DL for an extended period of time allowing them to pick other positions during the draft. Realistically, if you have 5 young studs at OL, why would you draft more than one or two for depth that year. Therefore, NE has to pick someone...so they are freed up to fine-tune their already-very-good organization by focusing on RBs and LBs who are the most likely to contribute to special teams. Arizona doesn't have the luxury of drafting other positions as they are still attempting to solve their issues at OL and DL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 It's also skewed stats. For example, if the Patriots had 9 picks and picked two linemen that is statistically a smaller percentage than if we had four picks and picked 1. Not sure about your point. I gave you a percentage. the skins were 14 of 57 and the patriots 22 of 77. On top of that, most of our linemen have been picked in the 6th and 7th rounds. Can diamonds be found there, sure. Is it likely.. 4 of 25 were rounds 1-4 (17%) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 David Diehl - 5th roundRich Seubert - Undrafted Shaun O'Hara - Undrafted (Acquired from the Browns) Chris Snee - 2nd Round Kareem McKenzie - 3rd round That's the Giants OLine. They're pretty good and I give the G-Men credit for putting together this group without spending 1st rounders. So Oldfan I see your point. They still scouted and drafted 3/5 of their line in the draft. Additionally, they grabbed one guy as an unrestricted FA (similar to what we did with Heyer). Lastly, they made a trade for another young OL. To me, the glaring point there is that none of those guys was acquired via FA when he was around 30 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I'd rather have success like the Colts and Patriots have had. The Cards and Phins might flop back again next year. If so, then you better help Vinny grade these OL so that he can draft guys that can anchor our line for 10 years...that's how Indy and NE have been successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 No, I think it means that most teams realize that OL and DL are the two most important positions to address and solidify. I don't know how you reached that conclusion. Therefore, the Pats have had some very good OL and DL for an extended period of time allowing them to pick other positions during the draft. The stats cover 2000 to 2008, a nine year period. The Patriots won five games in 2000, Belichicks first year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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