Kilmer17 Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Because if they dont then the courts decide. If you think the courts should decide, fine, I expect to hear you say that the dem controlled legislatures should abandon their redistricting plans as well. Seperation of powers. Of course the GOP wants to redistrict in their favor. Just like the Dems wan to redistrict in THEIR favor. However, the victorious party gets to call the shots. If they gerrymander, then the courts will dismiss the new districts and make the legislature redo them. What the Dems are doing is trying to circumvent the rules. Gerrymandering is wrong and illegal. BUt that's a courts decision. Redistricting to make a party gain seats is NOT illegal. It's the spoils of victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Originally posted by fansince62 TEG....do you favor redistricting if it concentrates votes among minorities? No. I am against all attempts to gerrymander (democrat or republican) - since its usually the party in power who tries to shove "new" districts down the states throat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 TEG, thgere is a difference between gerrymandering and redistricting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Originally posted by Kilmer17 TEG, thgere is a difference between gerrymandering and redistricting. Perhaps in the past Kilmer...but in today's world - I would bet you would find that there is very little redistricting that goes on without some political gains in the background. Cracking and packing is so prevalant nowadays - that some states in the past 5 years have introduced anti-gerrymandering bills (that would be voted on by the public). These bills attempted to introduce a mathematical formula into redistricting (and thus eliminate the whims of the future controlling party). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posse81 Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 They do not have to redistrict. Everyone redistricts every 10 years after the census comes out. DeLay wants to redistrict after 2 years. If you see the map, some districts are so oddly shaped to create more GOP seats, that one street in Texas is carved up into FOUR districts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 I totally agree with you TEG. This case however, is not to that point. And we dont know if it will get there. Redistricting to give a certain party a majority in a district or multiple districts is not illegal. Only when done in such a way (gerrymandering) that natural or existing district boundries are ignored is it illegal. Take a look at the GA district that encompasses most of Savannah and parts of Augusta for an example. They are 200 plus miles apart and connected by a portion of the district that runs in the middle of the savannah river. NOT TOUCHING EITHER SIDE. THAT is gerrymandering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 NC and MD had two mile wide jagged lines on the map that conveniently went through democratic areas only until they were declared unconstitutional back in the 90's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Originally posted by NavyDave NC and MD had two mile wide jagged lines on the map that conveniently went through democratic areas only until they were declared unconstitutional back in the 90's Ooh ooh - the DEMS used to do it - so it must be ok! Is that what you are arguing Navy Dave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Did the GOP take their ball and go home when the dems did it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Originally posted by Kilmer17 Did the GOP take their ball and go home when the dems did it? Seriously, who cares? Cracking and packing voting districts is flat out wrong - whichever party does it. There shouldn't be any argument over that. And yet, everyone wants to shift the dicussion over to 58 rogue Texas Democrats who are acting like spoiled children because their fellow GOP classmates are rigging future elections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 TEG, nobody knows if their plan is illegal. If it is gerrymandering, then the court will throw it out. The discussion is exactly where it belongs. Criticizing the Dems for not even allowing the vote to take place. They are refusing to listen to the will of the people of the state. What you and the Dems are doing is trying to shift the argument to a broader one regarding gerrymandering. It may very well be true here, but at this point we dont know. And even if it is, you dont deal with it by acting like little b!tches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Originally posted by Kilmer17 They are refusing to listen to the will of the people of the state. And the will of those people it to redistrict right? Sure. I mean, what person wouldn't want them to redistrict before they pass anything else? It surely takes precedence over say, passing a state budget (so the cops and other government workers can get paid) or providing additional $'s to the school systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 It's not an either or proposition. Every state in the US goes through redistricting every ten years. The Constitution calls for it. The Dems are trying to prevent it. So yes, the will of the people is to redistrict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Originally posted by Kilmer17 It's not an either or proposition. Every state in the US goes through redistricting every ten years. The Constitution calls for it. The Dems are trying to prevent it. So yes, the will of the people is to redistrict. But they already did it this time around, right? In 2001, I believe is what I read. So this is the 2nd time since the last census...more likely its the will of the TEXAS GOP to gain more power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Kilmer, From this article... http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/1900711 The districts were drawn by federal judges in 2001 after the Legislature could not agree on a map Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 right, so the legislature can still draw one up and uphold it's Constituional duty. Also from one of those articles, the AWOL Dems can be arrested when they return to Texas. It'll be funny watching them try and run for re-election from Oklahoma. I hope the Atty General does prosecute them to the full extent. Send the message that this kind of whiny crap wont be tolerated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Originally posted by Kilmer17 right, so the legislature can still draw one up and uphold it's Constituional duty. That;s an interesting interpretation of it, to say the least. But, I would think that since they went to the courts to get one done, their argument that they have a consitutional duty to do another one, would fall flat. Did you see this blurb in that article? The new map also could hurt Texas' clout in military matters just as the federal government is undertaking the 2005 round of base closures, the Democrats said. U.S. Rep. Chet Edwards, D-Waco, serves on an appropriations subcommittee that allocates money for military bases. His district includes Fort Hood. U.S. Rep. Solomon Ortiz, D-Corpus Christi, is the most senior Democrat on the Armed Services Committee. Ironic if it takes place, since the GOP is nowadays usually the main ally of the military spending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 I think most people can differentiate between "military spending" and base closures. TEG, the base principle in this specific. The Dems realize that they no longer have any power (apply in either the Fed or Texas state legisature). They lost power because the voters decided the GOP candidates were better choices and better represnted their ideals, morals, political beliefs; or simply thought the GOP would do a better job running the Govt. For the Dems to thwart the will of the people by refusing to allow the most base of democratic principles (voting) to occur is shameful. We overthrow countries who wont allow this freedom, yet the Dems have found this to be the only way to keep their power. Rather like Communism isnt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Punani2 Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Originally posted by JackC Wow, A drastic measure designed to gain publicity on this shameful redistricting plan. Nice work, we're paying attention now aren't we? WOW! Talk about one bizzare thought process. Shameful redistricting plan? What are you on full moron mode now Jack? Every single time one party gains a majority they redraw the lines to give them an edge in the next elections. It's a pretty common practice. Your Democrats have been doing the same thing for as long as I can remember. Of course, I'm sure we wouldn't hear a peep out of you if the Dems were the ones doing the redistricting huh Jack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboDaMan Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Originally posted by Kilmer17 I think most people can differentiate between "military spending" and base closures. TEG, the base principle in this specific. The Dems realize that they no longer have any power (apply in either the Fed or Texas state legisature). They lost power because the voters decided the GOP candidates were better choices and better represnted their ideals, morals, political beliefs; or simply thought the GOP would do a better job running the Govt. For the Dems to thwart the will of the people by refusing to allow the most base of democratic principles (voting) to occur is shameful. We overthrow countries who wont allow this freedom, yet the Dems have found this to be the only way to keep their power. Rather like Communism isnt it. And yet...when we use the Electoral College to thwart the will of the majority, that is hailed by Republicans as a great thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Punani2 Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 This just shows to what measure the Democratic party will do to hold on to power. They are nothing but power hungry scumbags that will do everything under the sun to hold on to power. The Democratic Reps should face ethics violations for this sh*t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 How far did you grasp for that morsel of leftist idiocy? The Electoral College is law. It's part of the Constitution. I guess it shouldnt suprise me that a leftist wants to ignore the Constitution, but it still does. Dont like the Electoral College? Change it. You'll need 3/4 of the states to ratify it. Good luck with Idaho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboDaMan Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Did I make even the slightest mention of ignoring the Constitution? Find it, please. You are INFERRING something that is not there. I won't embarrass you be dragging up your repeated whining that inferring is a liberal disease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phishhead Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Originally posted by 56Arrington56 This just shows to what measure the Democratic party will do to hold on to power. They are nothing but power hungry scumbags that will do everything under the sun to hold on to power. The Democratic Reps should face ethics violations for this sh*t. And the Republican party's hands are clean eh? I guess Republicans aren't "power hungry scumbags that will do everything under the sun to hold on to power." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Punani2 Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Originally posted by phishhead And the Republican party's hands are clean eh? I guess Republicans aren't "power hungry scumbags that will do everything under the sun to hold on to power." When was the last time the Republicans did something like this? Please, inform me phishhead! I would love to know!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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