Streater101 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 But wait, I thought Vinny was an idiot and the people on this board were better GM's?:doh:I'm glad we got some young Wr's which take a while to groom anyway. Doesn't look lke the D-lineman turned out to be so great after all. Are you crazy? Snyder could find his next coach, and GM, right here on extremeskins. Our front office should just reach and draft anyone just because they play a position we need help at :doh: Also, there are plenty of WR who have had success right out the gate. Thats not to say that our guys bums because they didn't, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins PR Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 But wait, I thought Vinny was an idiot and the people on this board were better GM's?:doh:I'm glad we got some young Wr's which take a while to groom anyway. Doesn't look lke the D-lineman turned out to be so great after all. Vinny is an idiot and some of the people on this board would do better as GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefinonhaze Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Vinny is an idiot and some of the people on this board would do better as GM. Really? This isn't fantasy football. Not only do these guys have to evaluate the talent, they have to evaluate how they fit into the roster. They also have to consider things as cap ramifications, BPA, and they actually have a lot more information to work with then we do. You wouldn't believe how much information they have to analyze to prepare for the draft. Not only combine numbers, but game film, injury history, etc. It's really not as easy as these E-Coaches think it is. I'm not saying Vinny is a great GM, but he is a whole lot better at it then anyone on this board. People tend to forget the draft is a crap shoot, and most of these guys are hit or miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 vinny is not an idiot. he is good at evaluating talent. he just needs to get over the whole notion that stud lineman can be picked up in the late rounds and stop giving away draft picks. I've got some real nice swampland....'er prime real estate in Florida that I'd like to talk with you about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Really? This isn't fantasy football. Not only do these guys have to evaluate the talent, they have to evaluate how they fit into the roster. They also have to consider things as cap ramifications, BPA, and they actually have a lot more information to work with then we do. You wouldn't believe how much information they have to analyze to prepare for the draft. Not only combine numbers, but game film, injury history, etc.It's really not as easy as these E-Coaches think it is. I'm not saying Vinny is a great GM, but he is a whole lot better at it then anyone on this board. People tend to forget the draft is a crap shoot, and most of these guys are hit or miss. Wow, first Squatch and now you. This is getting creepy.:paranoid: It's starting to look like Danny has assigned staff to the board to pump up Vinnie's rep.:paranoid: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maskedsuperstar Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 This makes no sense. He's pretty good at evaluating talent, but he's an idiot? What over the hill vets has he signed? I assume you're not talking about re-structuring our own players.The only pick Cerrato gave up I'd like to have back is the 2nd for Taylor and even that looked reasonably smart at the time. If Taylor had stayed healthy and on the field and registered, say, 7-8 sacks, the trade might look pretty good. Right, and nobody would be crying the blues. But how did Vinny know that Taylor would be hurt for most of the season? And anyway, Blache wants to stop the run first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maskedsuperstar Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Really? This isn't fantasy football. Not only do these guys have to evaluate the talent, they have to evaluate how they fit into the roster. They also have to consider things as cap ramifications, BPA, and they actually have a lot more information to work with then we do. You wouldn't believe how much information they have to analyze to prepare for the draft. Not only combine numbers, but game film, injury history, etc.It's really not as easy as these E-Coaches think it is. I'm not saying Vinny is a great GM, but he is a whole lot better at it then anyone on this board. People tend to forget the draft is a crap shoot, and most of these guys are hit or miss. Its a big crap shoot. Glen Dorsey, I believe he went in the top 5 in last years draft. So far has been a bust for KC. All the scouts can do is evaluate. They have no idea what these kids are going to do on Sunday. And Darren Woodson has said many times, "Just because your name is called on Saturday, doesn't mean you can play on Sunday." That point is proven every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maskedsuperstar Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Vinny is an idiot and some of the people on this board would do better as GM. Well, can you do it the job? The first time the player you drafted didn't work out, can you take the heat from the fans? You can draft the best player in college. Doesn't mean he can play at the next level. Scott Campbell and Morocco Brown can do the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maskedsuperstar Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Are you crazy? Snyder could find his next coach, and GM, right here on extremeskins. Our front office should just reach and draft anyone just because they play a position we need help at :doh:Also, there are plenty of WR who have had success right out the gate. Thats not to say that our guys bums because they didn't, however. Name 10 WR's that had success right out the gate. I know 2 you will probably think of. Eddie Royal and Desean Jackson. Eddie Royal started fast and ran out of gas. Jackson? The Eagles don't have any other threats and the Skins shut him down twice. 8 more please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfriedenthal Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Name 10 WR's that had success right out the gate. I know 2 you will probably think of. Eddie Royal and Desean Jackson. Eddie Royal started fast and ran out of gas. Jackson? The Eagles don't have any other threats and the Skins shut him down twice.8 more please! Except for his Kick or Punt return for a TD in the first game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildbill1952 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 The reason we haven't drafted DL (and OL for that matter) as much as most teams and certainly not as much as most consistently successful teams is not because of the best player available approach... it is because we (as an organization -- I am not a Vinny basher) have mistakenly not valued DL (and OL) as much as they should be valued and therefore DL (and OL) prospects are farther down our draft boards than they are on other teams' draft boards.That's kind of a "back door bash", in that it seems to indicate that other teams value OL and DL more. Our record would indicate they were right and we were wrong. The real flaw in the BPA approach, is that, although you can compare one QB to another and one WR to another, there is no method in the BPA approach for comparing a WR to a QB to an OT to a DE. Realistically how can there be? OL never score touchdowns. DE never catch passes in the endzone. A DT never throws an 80 yard bomb for a score. So if you know that an OL is the best center or guard or tackle, then why don't you pick those over another TE when you already have a Pro Bowl TE? For the sake of argument, I'll agree that our pick was the best TE available in the draft. Chilo Rachal was the best OG on the board at the time. What made the TE the better pick? Maybe, one day we'll all look back on this and agree Vinny was a genius. I doubt it, but maybe he's right. Someone just explain to me why we made this pick when half the board seemed to recognize that our OL was in trouble. And if the amateurs saw it, why didn't Vinny? Vinny is on the record as saying he does not think drafting for need is a good idea because "you might end up with a bunch of players that aren't that good" as compared to the BPA approach. His use of the BPA approach created a team where we have some outstanding talent in some areas and "a bunch of players that aren't that good", most notably the OL and DL. It's not a conspiracy theory. I just feel he doesn't understand the importance of a good OL to the offense nor the importance of a good DL to the defense. Otherwise, as you point out, OL and DL would be higher on our draft boards. In my book, for a GM to lack that knowledge would make him dumber than a doorknob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerpSkin Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 That's kind of a "back door bash", in that it seems to indicate that other teams value OL and DL more. Actually, I meant it as a very front door bash saying exactly what you said. The difference is that I am not and have not been of the folks who lays it all at the feet of Vinny. Until this last season, it has never been clear who exactly was calling the shots. We think it was Gibbs during the Gibbs years, and we know it was Marty during his year. And even in the Vinny year(s), you have to think he is taking into account the input from his coaches on what they feel the biggest needs are. The actual selections we have been making seem to be of good value though, so in that sense I feel Vinny (and the organization) is doing well. But I agree, that it seems pretty dumb (to me at least) not to value linemen more than we do. As for the BPA approach, I think you'll find (if you read past posts of mine) that I agree with you and have offered many arguments similar to yours. But I also think it is just lip-service. I think GMs (and Vinny) say publicly that they take the BPA just so that their draft picks think that that is what their employer thinks of them. It is probably unwise to draft a guy and then come out and say, "well, he wasn't the best player we could get but we sure needed help at his position." I think Vinny and other GMs understand you have to find the Best Value-Added-to-your-specific-team Available player and say they took the BPA for PR reasons. Remember, when talking about the first day of the draft last season, Vinny said he always takes BPA and blah, blah, blah and then he said something like, "but I guarantee we won't be taking another WR on the second day." That statement proves that he in fact does not take BPA (despite what he says publicly) or he could not possibly guarantee that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Streater101 Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Name 10 WR's that had success right out the gate. I know 2 you will probably think of. Eddie Royal and Desean Jackson. Eddie Royal started fast and ran out of gas. Jackson? The Eagles don't have any other threats and the Skins shut him down twice.8 more please! Sorry for my tardiness, but f you look at my join date, then my total number of post you can see that I don't check extremeskins that often. Larry Fitzgerald Mark Clayton Marques Colston Randy Moss Anquan Boldin Andre Johnson Torry Holt Jerricho Cotchery Dwayne Bowe Braylon Edwards Lee Evans are some that come to mind. Some players were outstanding out the gate (Evans, Boldin, Moss,etc...) and some were solid (Cotchery,Fitzgerald,Johnson,etc...) The list looks even better when you consider their sophomore campaigns. So really, if you wanted to describe a pattern of developing WR's, then you should probably look at them on a 2 year basis, not 3. You should watch more football dude. I came up with that list w/o even using google, I'm sure I could dig up more if I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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