Mark The Homer Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 I think the info JO got from the team is generally accurate - meaning there weren't any extra jerseys made specifically for the playoff game and the team generally used the same jerseys "thru" the end of the season on many players. That's why the sticker says "thru Seattle." But that doesn't change the fact that each player has a minimum of two jerseys of each color or type. One thing I wonder is why did the equipment manager or whoever decide to suddenly switch Collin's jersey for the playoff game? Another thing: Since the team is using these stickers to prove legitimacy on many of the jerseys (starters and fan favorites), then we, as collectors, should naturally prefer a jersey with that sticker from the team. Seeing that sticker on a jersey proves the player suited up and wore the jersey. A Josports sticker shows the jersey came from the team, but it doesn't show the jersey was worn on the field (doesn't mean it wasn't - but it doesn't prove it was either). My point is - a team sticker is better than a JO sticker. Edit: Investigating futher - most of the 75th anni jerseys on the Jo site have the team stickers. But look at Randel El's jersey on the field: Now see Randel El's 75th anni jersey sticker as shown on Josports (2nd is shown for comparison): Here's the jersey on the site (the second is shown for comparison): It appears to me that the game jersey on the field had been customized to be shortened, and the jersey on the Jo site has not been customized. If you check all the Randel El jerseys on the Jo site - all of them have team thermal patches, and all of them have been customized at the waist to be shortened so that the jock tag is missing. The lone exception is Randel El's 75th anni jersey which is missing the team thermal patch but has the jock tag. I think we can therefore conclude that the Randel El 75th anni jersey on the Jo site is not game used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josportsco Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Hello everyone. Jeromy brought this post to my attention this morning. So let’s start with the ThermoPatch question. Again, the team puts on a ThermoPatch on their shirts for identifiers. This patch may be put on every shirt or just one shirt. I don’t know and it is up to the equipment manager to patch what jerseys he wants. I got the idea from the Redskins and have incorporated it to all of my team’s shirts: Raiders, Vikings, Bears etc. Other teams use other sources for identifiers: Cowboys and Rams (ProvaGroup) Browns and Seahawks (barcoded ThermoPatch) Eagles (write game on jock tag) etc. The point here is this.. it shouldn’t matter what identifier, what paperwork, what company you buy game used from. What matters is the equipment you purchase is 100% used by that player. Of course documentation helps the security and the resale etc but if I were to purchase a Clinton Portis gamer and have photos to match that is all I need. With the internet and accessible photos like GettyImages and others it makes it tons easier to photomatch jerseys. We request unwashed equipment so the jerseys still carry the essence of the game on to the collector. As for this Jason Campbell I have looked at our jersey and look at game photos and I agree they DO NOT MATCH!! The first thing I noticed, the sleeves are not customized. Every Campbell gamer I have handled has a triangle spandex insert sewn into the jersey at the arm pits. This jersey does not include the insert. So questions are now asked: Is J.O. Sports, Inc selling bad merchandise? NO. Do they do their homework? YES. Are they trying to mislead the Redskins collectors? NO. Are the Redskins at fault? YES. Why was there Redskins LOA issued with this jersey? I DON’T KNOW. BUT mistakes happen. I will have to contact the Skins to get an explanation and return the jersey. Neither the Skins nor J.O. Sports, Inc. is or was trying to mislead the community. We have too much at stake. As for the Collins jersey, it is a no win situation. We get the jersey and the Redskins issued Collins 2 jerseys let say for the entire year and the COA states playoff jersey and probably worn previously. We put “thru” playoff game. The Redskins and JO doesn’t know exactly what games the jersey was worn but we do know it was retired after the playoff game so we put “thru”. So if it was worn only in the playoff game we are at fault for putting “thru”. If it was worn all season and we put it as only the playoff game we are at fault. We do not exactly how many shirts were issued to Collins in the year so I would assume 2. Last, I appreciate pointing out the Campbell issue and we will get it handled. Guys don’t be so critical regarding what shirt has what ThermoPatch, Collins wore 2 shirts vs. 1 shirt (this is what we sold it as thru Seattle). We will continue our efforts with the Redskins to supply the fans with these pieces of history. Jarrod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark The Homer Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Hi Jarrod, I hope you don't think I am implying dishonesty on Jo's part. I do not think that in the least, and I'm surprised you brought it up. It's obvious to me that it is the team that is being vague about certain jerseys. It seems to me you get a box of jerseys from a particular game. And it seems to me the jerseys that have the team thermopatch (I've been calling them stickers) are clearly game worn. But the jerseys without the team thermopatch are possibly not game worn. I say possibly, not probably. It's pretty obvious to me that the team is thermopatching the starters and fan favorite players, and not thermopatching the low depth guys. Therefore, if we see a jersey from a starting player without a team thermopatch, that's a red flag. The Randel El above is a beautiful example. What bothers me is, somebody on the Redskins end knows that some of these jerseys are being picked out. It seems to me it is the team's responsibility to make a note of this, so that when you receive an item like the Randel El above, you know it's not game worn. They know it. So why do they make you and me have to go to all this trouble to figure it out. They should just tell you from the start. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xavmit Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Randel El's jersey size has increased from 40 in the 2007-8 season to 42 in the 2008-9 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Flanders Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 My COA for the Collins in the date section says "2007 Season", not "1/5/08". Every other jersey I have a skins COA for that I bought from JO has the specific game date. I could hypothesize on why the skins did that, but only the skins equipment manager knows the answer. Mark proved it was not worn all season by Collins with clear photomatches. It is with the evidence MTH provided, that I conclude that it's more then likely just a Game worn Seattle Jersey, nothing more. The COA doesn't reflect that. If we the consumers are buying jerseys directly from the guy that gets them directly from the skins, and the skins are giving fuzzy information on the jerseys......that's not good. That COA was issued by the Redskins, not JO. JOSports has been nothing short of an excellent source for jerseys IMO. You guys are friendly, and have great service. I believe you sold that jersey with the best of intentions. The Redskins however owe at the minimum, an explanation to you guys as to the jerseys history. The Randle El and Campbell need answers as well. This is a bummer, but I won't let it stop me from purchasing more from you guys in the future. I just wish the Redskins would do things right........I blame Vinny! He needs to fire the Equipment Manager! Just kidding..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Flanders Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 I think the info JO got from the team is generally accurate - meaning there weren't any extra jerseys made specifically for the playoff game and the team generally used the same jerseys "thru" the end of the season on many players. That's why the sticker says "thru Seattle." But that doesn't change the fact that each player has a minimum of two jerseys of each color or type. One thing I wonder is why did the equipment manager or whoever decide to suddenly switch Collin's jersey for the playoff game? Maybe because the other one got torn up the 4 games prior? Maybe It's sitting in a closet on River Road as mentioned? Maybe Collins took it.....I would If I were him.....the man was tearing it up as we went into the Playoffs. That is a great question. Another one would be, why did the Patches get placed differently prior to the Seattle game? That's one I want to know... Mark, thanks for all of your photomatches. You don't realize how much of a help you are. :notworthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josportsco Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 No problems we are in the process to contact the team. As for the Collins how can you say it wasn't used in season? Because it matches the playoff game but not the final games. The patches were added to the regular season jerseys. Collins didnt start till Dec 6th. but was in the games prior to and was worn during game action. A game worn jersey is a jersey worn by a player during an official NFL football game whether he played or not. An issued jersey is a jersey issued to that specific team for use during an official NFL football game that the player did not wear while suiting up for that specific team and event. Example look at our Minnesota Vikings throwback collection. We sold the Peterson game worn jersey and we are selling the exact style, size, customizations issued jersey that was in the trunk on the sidelines for back up. We have numerous Peterson game worn and issued jerseys we get a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark The Homer Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 My COA for the Collins in the date section says "2007 Season", not "1/5/08". Every other jersey I have a skins COA for that I bought from JO has the specific game date. I could hypothesize on why the skins did that, but only the skins equipment manager knows the answer. Mark proved it was not worn all season by Collins with clear photomatches. It is with the evidence MTH provided, that I conclude that it's more then likely just a Game worn Seattle Jersey, nothing more. The COA doesn't reflect that. If we the consumers are buying jerseys directly from the guy that gets them directly from the skins, and the skins are giving fuzzy information on the jerseys......that's not good.That COA was issued by the Redskins, not JO. JOSports has been nothing short of an excellent source for jerseys IMO. You guys are friendly, and have great service. I believe you sold that jersey with the best of intentions. The Redskins however owe at the minimum, an explanation to you guys as to the jerseys history. The Randle El and Campbell need answers as well. This is a bummer, but I won't let it stop me from purchasing more from you guys in the future. I just wish the Redskins would do things right........I blame Vinny! He needs to fire the Equipment Manager! Just kidding..... Maybe because the other one got torn up the 4 games prior? Maybe It's sitting in a closet on River Road as mentioned? Maybe Collins took it.....I would If I were him.....the man was tearing it up as we went into the Playoffs.That is a great question. Another one would be, why did the Patches get placed differently prior to the Seattle game? That's one I want to know... Mark, thanks for all of your photomatches. You don't realize how much of a help you are. :notworthy ... As for the Collins how can you say it wasn't used in season? Because it matches the playoff game but not the final games. The patches were added to the regular season jerseys. Collins didnt start till Dec 6th. but was in the games prior to and was worn during game action. A game worn jersey is a jersey worn by a player during an official NFL football game whether he played or not. An issued jersey is a jersey issued to that specific team for use during an official NFL football game that the player did not wear while suiting up for that specific team and event. Example look at our Minnesota Vikings throwback collection. We sold the Peterson game worn jersey and we are selling the exact style, size, customizations issued jersey that was in the trunk on the sidelines for back up. We have numerous Peterson game worn and issued jerseys we get a year.Hey Ned,I don't have a list of all the jerseys you have bought, but I know you have bought some nice ones. The Collins is unique because Todd was initially a backup, then went on to become a starter. So in that sense, that explains why no one Collins jersey was allocated to one specific game. I speculate, as Jarrod does, that there were only two regular white Collins jerseys in existence during the 2007 season, and that the jersey you own was within the equipment room rotation during the entire 2007 season. Collins may very well have worn your jersey during other games during the year. But he was on the sidelines holding a clipboard for most of the season. It's also possible, like you said, that the one jersey sustained enough damage to switch it out for the Seattle game. That still doesn't mean it wasn't worn earlier in the year. Marking it "2007 Season" or "thru Seattle" seems more accurate to me than anything else. I think the Chris Samuels jerseys on the Jo sites are a good example of this. Chris Samuels is a starter, and we know he was allocated a new jersey for every game. But because the team didn't know they'd be going to the playoffs, there was no jersey set aside for him to wear for that Seattle playoff game. If you look on the Jo site, you can see a Dec 23 vs the Vikings jersey for Samuels, but there is no Dec. 30 vs the Cowboys jersey. Why? Because that jersey is included in the Jan 5th Seattle group of jerseys. I say "group of jerseys" because the apparent team policy is to have two jerseys of the same color on hand for each game. Let's say it's Dec 29th, 2007 with a game scheduled the next day and a playoff game the following week. The team has two jerseys left for Samuels. If they stick a thermopatch for Dec 30th on one of the jerseys, that would only leave them with one jersey to wear in Seattle with no back-up, and that is against policy. Therefore, they purposely keep the Dec 30th thermopatch off the jersey. This allows them to play the Dec 30th game, wash the jersey, and then to go to Seattle with the two jerseys they need: 1 for the game and one for back-up. Make sense? I don't think it's a conspiracy or anything like that. What is frustrating to me more is the 75th anni jerseys of star players which are missing the team thermopatches. When the team shipped those jerseys to Josports, they should have included a note stating that "some of these may not have been worn", for example the Randel El and the Campbell. The Carter 75th anni has also caught my eye - as that one appears to be the only Carter jersey that's missing the team thermopatch - which in my mind makes it suspect. I also think I may have finally figured out why the team decided to wash those 75th anni jerseys and no others. It occurs to me that one reason to wash them would be because of the possibility of wearing those jerseys for a second time. If the team had exactly two 75th anni jerseys for each player, and after the Giants game there was a possibility the jerseys would be worn for another game, then it would make sense to wash them all after the Giants game. This way they could enter another game with the two 75th anni jerseys that policy requires for each player. This explains why the team washed the jerseys. And just for documentation purposes, here's an example of jersey showing the thermopatch that had been applied prior to the game: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Flanders Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 No problems we are in the process to contact the team. As for the Collins how can you say it wasn't used in season? Because it matches the playoff game but not the final games. The patches were added to the regular season jerseys. Collins didnt start till Dec 6th. but was in the games prior to and was worn during game action. A game worn jersey is a jersey worn by a player during an official NFL football game whether he played or not. An issued jersey is a jersey issued to that specific team for use during an official NFL football game that the player did not wear while suiting up for that specific team and event. Example look at our Minnesota Vikings throwback collection. We sold the Peterson game worn jersey and we are selling the exact style, size, customizations issued jersey that was in the trunk on the sidelines for back up. We have numerous Peterson game worn and issued jerseys we get a year. I understand what you are saying, I was under the impression that was Collins "only", as starting QB, White game worn jersey. Not that he didn't use it 'in season'. I have no doubt he wore it, but it wasn't his only Game Worn -as starting QB- jersey. From the pictures I have seen, this particular jersey was only worn in the final seahawks game. The 75th patch is on the shoulder seam on mine, every other Collins picture I could find from last year had it below the seam. What threw me was the "thru" tagging put on the description and the explanation of what thru meant earlier in this thread. Once again, no doubt it was worn in a game, unfortunately for me, it wasn't worn in any game I want to remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark The Homer Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Ned - sounds like you're getting down on your Collins. Make no mistake, that is a beautiful jersey on so many levels. It's a QB jersey, it's for a playoff year, it has the 21 patch, it was worn in a playoff game, it is one of only two in this world. I can see how you'd be a little disappointed, but it's still a wonderful collector's item. There's not many people who have gamers and who also have wonderful photo matches such as this one: I would print that, frame it, and hang it on my wall if I was you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josportsco Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Very well put. Ned would it feel better to know your Collins jersey patch was put back on for the playoff game because the "21" patch placement was wrong per league rules. When Taylor passed they had to sewn on 106 patches for game use. The Skins were headed to the playoffs "National Spotlight" game??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark The Homer Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Really. Are you saying that it's possible that the team removed the patches from Collins' jersey and replaced them? If so, Ned should see some sort of evidence of that. That would really be cool. Jerrod, what are the league rules regarding patches? I have to admit I don't think I've seen patches sewn so low and towards the middle as I saw Collins wearing in those December games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70Chip44 Posted February 26, 2009 Author Share Posted February 26, 2009 - Why no D'Angelo Hall jerseys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark The Homer Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Check out this game match I found. That's Lloyd hugging Nick Novak after hitting the game winner as time expired, 11/5/06. Jersey is $250 at josportsco.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeen80 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Check out this game match I found. That's Lloyd hugging Nick Novak after hitting the game winner as time expired, 11/5/06. Jersey is $250 at josportsco.com. Nice find MTH. I believe that grass stain came from when he slipped on his back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brosweets1 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 that is only Jacobs that slips on his back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Flanders Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Ned - sounds like you're getting down on your Collins. Make no mistake, that is a beautiful jersey on so many levels. It's a QB jersey, it's for a playoff year, it has the 21 patch, it was worn in a playoff game, it is one of only two in this world. I can see how you'd be a little disappointed, but it's still a wonderful collector's item. There's not many people who have gamers and who also have wonderful photo matches such as this one: I would print that, frame it, and hang it on my wall if I was you. I definitely still LOVE the jersey, but not as much as I did 3 days ago.....I also do not want to come off as being a jerk in this whole thread on the Collins. I was just under the impression that it was his only game worn jersey for the last 5 games of the season - a little let down? Yes. Regardless, the jersey will be framed, and hung on my wall. I can't say that for most of my other jerseys I've purchased. I'd love to buy an unwatermarked version of the pic you have above, have Collins sign it, and hang it on the wall right next to the jersey. That was a great run he made as SQB. I'll put up the London Fletcher pics soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Flanders Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 - Why no D'Angelo Hall jerseys? Or Chris Horton or Colt Brennan???!! I'd kill for a Chris Horton gamer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Flanders Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 These are pictures of my London Fletcher 21 Patched Burgundy gamer from the Ring of Fame game this past year. Awesome wear! London must be a damn animal! This is one, if not the favorite that I own. I'll put up the Fred Davis pics later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josportsco Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 J.O. Sports, Inc. needs your help. Can someone please send us pics of Champ Bailey in game action 12/21/03 and 12/27/03. We have already searched Getty Images and Corbis and US PressWire. So it has to be something other then those sites. Email it to Jarrod@josportsco.com Horton and Brennan jerseys. We are working on them. May get 1 Horton and 1 Brennan. We already got one Brennan but sold before we even got it. OH ALMOST FORGOT WE ARE COMING TO YOUR NECK OF THE WOODS 3/21 CHANTILLY SHOW. WE WILL BE THERE. COME SEE US. Jarrod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark The Homer Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Have you got that Fletcher photo matched yet? What does "sample" mean? The watermarks can be removed* but it's a pain: Example before: Example after: *strictly personal use only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark The Homer Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Hey Jarrod, I do have a pic of Bailey in '03, but it's a warmer game, looks like a Sept or Oct game. He's wearing white with the GSS patch. That's all I have. I'll try to get down there for the Chantilly event. It's three days, right? And you'll be there all three days with a number of jerseys on hand for inspection, right? http://www.csashows.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsKin26 Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Ned, let me know how this looks. I "found" it. It's not perfect, with his hands/NFL shield but I tried, haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark The Homer Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Dude, that's beautiful. You "found" it, huh? BTW, messing around with this stuff, here is something I've recently discovered to aid in photo-matching. I'll use this photo as an example. Let's say you're on getty and you're looking for a particular photo - and you find one you're interested in. Unfortunately, it has that dumb watermark splashed right on the front of it. http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/78788650/Getty-Images-Sport?axd=DetailPaging.Generic|1&axs=0|78799865%2c78799863%2c78799861%2c78789747%2c78789746%2c78789079%2c78788769%2c78788721%2c78788665%2c78788650%2c78788648%2c78945171%2c78945169%2c78944905%2c78944904%2c78944899%2c78944878%2c78761850%2c78761849%2c78761848%2c78761847%2c78761846%2c78761845%2c78761830%2c78761826%2c78761825%2c78761824%2c78761823%2c78761822%2c78761821%2c78712592%2c78712590%2c78679833%2c78679823%2c78678708%2c78678698%2c78678697%2c78678671%2c78678495%2c78728859%2c78728856%2c78728841%2c78728781%2c78728753%2c78728752%2c78728691%2c78709196%2c78709162%2c78709150%2c78709123%2c78642877%2c78642876%2c78642736%2c78642707%2c78642692%2c78508717%2c78508418%2c78508219%2c78508096%2c78507904|60 If it's a relatively recent photo, you might be able to find it with a less intrusive watermark. If you scroll down in the link above, you can see the image number. In the above example, the image number is 78788650. Copy it into your copy buffer. Next, open a new browser window, go to google.com, then paste the number into the box and type after the number so it looks like this: 78788650 site:gettyimages.com Hit enter. It'll tell you no documents are found. But click on Images at the top. You'll see your image, but it'll be small. Click on the little image. You'll see a big image, but ignore that one because it can't be copied easily. Next click on See Full Size Image at the top. Here's what you get: Easily copied and a hell of an improvement over the center watermark and in most cases a lot easier to clean up or crop out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70Chip44 Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 - Ned, -That Fletcher jersey looks tiny! Almost like my son's 3-T!! haha!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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