rv581 Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,83821,00.html Underground Nuclear Facility Found in Iraq Thursday, April 10, 2003 BAGHDAD, Iraq — U.S. officials are investigating a massive underground nuclear facility that was discovered below the Al Tuwaitha complex of the Iraqi Atomic Energy Commission in a suburban town south of Baghdad. While they aren't prepared to say the discovery is the smoking gun proving Iraq's possession of weapons of mass destruction, Fox News confirmed that officials are very interested in the labyrinth of labs and warehouses unearthed by U.S. forces. The discovery was unexpected and forces in the area are testing a variety of things to best determine the significance of the find. Marine nuclear and intelligence experts have far found 14 buildings that have high levels of radiation, an embedded reporter from the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review reported Thursday, noting that some of the tests have found nuclear residue too deadly for human occupation. The Marine radiation detectors go "off the charts" a few hundred meters outside the nuclear compound, where locals say "missile water" is stored in enormous caverns, the correspondent, Carl Prine, reported. Prine is embedded with the U.S. 1st Marine Division. "It's amazing," Chief Warrant Officer Darrin Flick, the battalion's nuclear, biological and chemical warfare specialist told the paper. "I went to the off-site storage buildings, and the rad detector went off the charts. Then I opened the steel door, and there were all these drums, many, many drums, of highly radioactive material." This underground discovery could still test to be perfectly legitimate and offer no proof of chemical, biological or nuclear weapons. The CIA encouraged international inspectors in the fall of 2002 to probe Al Tuwaitha for weapons of mass destruction, and the inspectors came away empty handed. "They went through that site multiple times, but did they go underground? I never heard anything about that," physicist David Albright, a former IAEA Action Team inspector in Iraq from 1992 to 1997, told the Tribune-Review. "The Marines should be particularly careful because of those high readings," he told the paper. "Three hours at levels like that and people begin to vomit. That leads me to wonder, if the readings are accurate, whether radioactive material was deliberately left there to expose people to dangerous levels. "You couldn't do scientific work in levels like that. You would die." Capt. John Seegar, a combat engineer commander from Houston, is currently running the operation in Al Tuwaitha. "I've never seen anything like it, ever," he told the Tribune-Review. "How did the world miss all of this? Why couldn't they see what was happening here?" Fox News' Carl Cameron contributed to this report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Art & Kilmer, Looks like Foxnews thought it was a legit story too and ran with it. Perhaps this truly is the proverbial smoking gun. It's discovery is both a good and bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 If this is true - and I'm cautious because the networks, and in particular Fox, have already prematurely sounded the alarm on a number of occasions - this is particularly alarming because while we knew that they had chem and bio weapons programs, we'd thought we'd pretty much gutted the nuclear research since 1991. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Originally posted by redman If this is true - and I'm cautious because the networks, and in particular Fox, have already prematurely sounded the alarm on a number of occasions - this is particularly alarming because while we knew that they had chem and bio weapons programs, we'd thought we'd pretty much gutted the nuclear research since 1991. We could have, right? I mean, its possible that this is a dumping ground for all their nuclear waste right? Didnt the article say that the radiation levels were so high there that no research/testing could have been done without serious health effects... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 This is from an email from my father, who's "embedded" presently in front of the television :laugh: : FoxNews, through its imbedded reporter system and from a Pittsburg print reporter, just put out a report that the Marines have found at a known non-military nuke site SE of Baghdad (what is called a Yellow Cake Facility located about 30 miles SE of Baghdad) the following: 14 "Warning Hot" buildings not previously regarded as involved in the handling or processing of nuclear reactor materials, like fuel rods which are made from yellow cake processed uranium (a 3% concentration), and they have found - or have tolod their embedded reporter they have found - yellow drums that by their labling have led them to believe they have found plutonium or plutonium-grade material. The location is called Tuwaitha, it is physically gigantic even by US standards, and is well known to the nuke community. Warning Hot is where the radioactivity readings are off the scale. That is, the needle on the Geiger counters is pegged. The Marines are also reporting that they have met several "locals" who have said rthey are willing to show the soldiers things they did not show the UN inspectors. Further, the Marines are also saying they have encountered what they suspect to be biologicals, but have warned that the stuff needs further testing as they can get false reads in the field. Now, and once again if it proves out, this is news. The presence of plutonium, if it indeed exists, is a major deal because the Iraqis have heretofore only pursued weapons through uranium. They would have had to get the plutonium f rom another nation......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rv581 Posted April 10, 2003 Author Share Posted April 10, 2003 Originally posted by The Evil Genius We could have, right? I mean, its possible that this is a dumping ground for all their nuclear waste right? Didnt the article say that the radiation levels were so high there that no research/testing could have been done without serious health effects... That might also mean that Saddam has hidden nuclear weapons somewhere in Iraq-- and if he's alive, might still use them. Possibly in the United States. This is serious stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 TEG- I don't understand your post- we could have what? Please clarify and I'll be happy to answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaganaut Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Hope Saddam doesn't have any hidden in Baghdad. He has a history of brutality against his own people. He torched the fields in Kuwait. He may decide to nuke his own city. Also, hope terrorists didnt' make off with any nuke waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Originally posted by redman TEG- I don't understand your post- we could have what? Please clarify and I'll be happy to answer. Sorry, this was in response to your comment... we'd thought we'd pretty much gutted the nuclear research since 1991 I was saying we could have...perhaps this is the remnants of the old program that were never found...and that Iraq was trying to hide. But if this new find is a different animal (plutonium vs. uranium) - then nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 I would have no doubt what so ever that Iraq was trying to develop nukes. But I don't believe they have them... if they did, they could have used a nuke vs. our troops while they were massing in Kuwait... how devastating would that have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Developing nukes is not the same thing as having a usable one. Again, we had thought that the nuclear program, of the three WMD programs being investigated, was pretty much in check since 1991. That this was going on right under the noses of the U.N. inspectors - remember that nuclear inspection head El Baradei was unwaveringly positive in his reports during the last six months - suggests some interesting things regarding the chem and bio weapons programs, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wicked Wop Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 True Code.....but then the whole world would have run over Iraq, part of me thinks that Saddam didn't use anything in the hopes that we wouldn't win, and did not want to shoot himself in the foot by using anything, or he possibly thought that the international pressure would have caused us to back off. Regardless he is a certifiable retard, the freak has all these palaces, riches, no internal threat.....and all he had to do was open his doors and say come get our weapons, or come find them with no strings attached.....instead he dicked around like all dumb dictators do, thinking that they are invincible and eventually they are brought to their knees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 rdog.. your'e right, I believe he actually thought he would make it out alive like last time. I've never said that Iraq doesn't have WMD, but I find it odd that none have been found yet. What that means, I don't know, but I don't believe he has nukes. One big difference between Saddam and Osama that I have been saying all along is the martyr factor. Bin Laden clearly wants to be a martyr. I don't believe Saddam has ever done anything to make us believe he is similar to Bin Laden in that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wicked Wop Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,83840,00.html sounds promising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phishhead Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Originally posted by rdogblue True Code.....but then the whole world would have run over Iraq, part of me thinks that Saddam didn't use anything in the hopes that we wouldn't win, and did not want to shoot himself in the foot by using anything, or he possibly thought that the international pressure would have caused us to back off. Regardless he is a certifiable retard, the freak has all these palaces, riches, no internal threat.....and all he had to do was open his doors and say come get our weapons, or come find them with no strings attached.....instead he dicked around like all dumb dictators do, thinking that they are invincible and eventually they are brought to their knees rdog, maybe I'm wrong... But wasn't it that Iraq would be bombed, and Saddam would be off'd no matter what? For some reason I remember Bush or someone saying that if they show that they have nukes, or turn them over, they will get bombed. But if they didn't, they still will get bombed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCS:BraveCaringSoul Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 FOXNEWS is now reporting that the Marines may have found signifigant quantities of weapons grade PLUTONIUM. If true this is terrifying news-- Washington DC could be turned into a graveyard for 500 years or more if they manage to sneak a plutonium bomb here. Even the CIA didn't think he had plutonium-- uranium maybe, but not plutonium. We need to get Saddam fast and use any means necesary to sweat the truth out of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wicked Wop Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 not sure about all those facts phishhead, but I will give you that the adminsitration wanted him gone period, weapons or not. At the same time if he had said come in and turned over banned weapons, I would be hard pressed to believe that the US would have much support if any from our Allies like Britan, and I'm sure the war support here would have been much lower......and I feel that it would have been suicide for Bush to force this war under those circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Hussein IS conscious of his legacy in the Arab world however, which has taken a big hit. You can see where news editorials in the region are already referring to Saddam as nothing more than a blowheart and paper tiger who couldn't mount a credible defense despite all his bluster. I am sure if he is alive and has the opportunity to seek revenge on the US, allied Arabs or his own people he will do so. That's one of the reasons the US cannot allow major regime figures to flee to Syria or seek refuge with the Russians. We need to arrest the major figures and allow the post-Saddam government to expose them publicly for the criminals they are. As far as the foreign brigades go, the US should tell them they have 24 hours to lay down their arms and start to leave Iraq. Otherwise, they will NOT be treated as prisoners of war but as terrorists, and will end up facing the same fate as the Pakistanis that tried to intervene in Afghanistan. They will be separated out and turned over to the Iraqis whom they have terrorized the past few weeks for prosecution after hostilities are over. I am sure the Iraqi administration that will be set up can think of some interesting places to put these foreign troublemakers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 This story is still only on FOX, so untill either CNN, MSNBC, or Yahoo start talking about it then I will be more worried. Was Geraldo involved in this, he finally found Capones Vault, hehehahahaha :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 We're not out of the woods yet with regards to the use of WMD's. Tikrit is still unoccupied, and is Saddam's power base. And as for him not being a martyr, if he's still alive and thought that his death in battle against the American "invaders" could secure his place in history, I'm not convinced that he wouldn't go out in a blaze of glory. Think of it as his secular version of martyrdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 redman,,, I agree with that, but what I meant is that before this war started, I don't think Saddam was willing to sacrafice his life by attacking the US. I remember before the war, many were saying that Saddam may strike first, I never believed that for a second. Saddam enjoyed his power and pushed it to the limit, but he was not like Bin Laden. He didn't make himself a public enemy of the US. Saddam has played the role of being unfairly picked on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 U.S. Nuke Find Claim in Iraq Critiqued 1 hour, 24 minutes ago By WILLIAM J. KOLE, Associated Press Writer VIENNA, Austria - American troops who suggested they uncovered evidence of an active nuclear weapons program in Iraq (news - web sites) unwittingly may have stumbled across known stocks of low-grade uranium, officials said Thursday. They said the U.S. troops may have broken U.N. seals meant to keep control of the radioactive material. AP Photo Latest news: · US, Kurdish forces enter northern Iraqi city of Mosul: KDP AFP - 26 minutes ago · G7 to discuss rebuilding Iraq economy AFP - 29 minutes ago · Crowd Kills 2 Clerics at Shiite Shrine AP - 36 minutes ago Special Coverage Leaders of a U.S. Marine Corps combat engineering unit claimed earlier this week to have found an underground network of laboratories, warehouses and bombproof offices beneath the closely monitored Tuwaitha nuclear research center just south of Baghdad. The Marines said they discovered 14 buildings at the site which emitted unusually high levels of radiation, and that a search of one building revealed "many, many drums" containing highly radioactive material. If documented, such a discovery could bolster Bush administration claims that Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) was trying to develop nuclear weaponry. Lt. Cmdr. Charles Owens, a spokesman for the U.S. Central Command, said officials there have not heard anything through military channels about a Marine inspection at Tuwaitha. The Vienna-based International Atomic Energy Agency, which has inspected the Tuwaitha nuclear complex at least two dozen times and maintains a thick dossier on the site, had no immediate comment. But an expert familiar with U.N. nuclear inspections told The Associated Press that it was implausible to believe that U.S. forces had uncovered anything new at the site. Instead, the official said, the Marines apparently broke U.N. seals designed to ensure the materials aren't diverted for weapons use — or end up in the wrong hands. "What happened apparently was that they broke IAEA seals, which is very unfortunate because those seals are integral to ensuring that nuclear material doesn't get diverted," the expert said, speaking on condition of anonymity. The Army Times, meanwhile, reported that troops with the 101st Airborne Division have unearthed 11 shipping containers, filled with sophisticated lab equipment, buried at a chemical plant in Karbala. It said the equipment's value and evidence that some of it may have been smuggled into Iraq raised suspicions that the facility had been used to manufacture chemical weapons. U.N. arms inspectors visited a facility in the immediate vicinity of the chemical plant Feb. 23, but did not find the buried equipment. Officials at the U.S. Central Command suggested that no conclusions should be drawn. Several tons of low-grade uranium has been stored at Tuwaitha, Iraq's principle nuclear research center and a site that has been under IAEA safeguards for years, the official said. The Iraqis were allowed to keep the material because it was unfit for weapons use without costly and time-consuming enrichment. Tuwaitha contains 1.8 tons of low-grade enriched uranium and several tons of natural and depleted uranium. The uranium was inspected by the U.N. nuclear agency twice a year and was kept under IAEA seal — at least until early this week, when the Marines seized control of the site. The U.N. nuclear agency's inspectors have visited Tuwaitha about two dozen times, including a dozen checks carried out since December, most recently on Feb. 6. It was among the first sites that IAEA inspectors sought out after the resumption of inspections on Nov. 27 after a nearly four-year break. On at least one occasion, inspectors with special mountaineering training went underground there to have a look around, according to IAEA documents. David Kay, a former IAEA chief nuclear inspector, said Thursday that the teams he oversaw after the 1991 Gulf War (news - web sites) never found an underground site at Tuwaitha despite persistent rumors. "But underground facilities by definition are very hard to detect," he said. "When you inspect a place so often, you get overconfident about what you know. It would have been very easy for the inspectors to explain away any excessive radiation at Tuwaitha. The Iraqis could have hidden something clandestine in plain sight." American intelligence analysts said before the U.S.-led campaign began that new structures photographed at Tuwaitha might indicate a revival of weapons work. IAEA inspectors checked but found nothing. The Tuwaitha complex, run by the Iraqi Atomic Energy Commission on a bend in the Tigris River about 18 miles south of Baghdad, was the heart of Saddam's former nuclear program and was involved in the final design of a nuclear bomb before Iraq's nuclear program was destroyed by U.N. teams after the 1991 Gulf War. The IAEA, charged with the hunt for evidence of a nuclear program in Iraq, told the Security Council just before the war that it had uncovered no firm evidence that Saddam was renewing efforts to add nuclear weapons to his arsenal. IAEA Director-General Mohamed ElBaradei, clearly wary of any coalition claims, said this week that any alleged discoveries of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq would have to be verified by U.N. inspectors "to generate the required credibility." ElBaradei said the inspectors should return as soon as possible, subject to Security Council guidance, to resume their search for banned arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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