Malcolm Kelly/Devin Thomas Discussion

[XxSpearheadxX]

If his knees were this bad coming into the draft why in the world would anyone select him? Is there anything out there stating his knee condition? I don't remember hearing arthritic knee. Thanks.

they kept it hush hush, but it wasn't conclusive that it HAD to be a degenerative condition, sometimes arthritis can be controlled. Malcom Kelly was a beast in college.

You WR haters, any of you watch these guys in school or mostly just haven't seen them do anything on any football field so you have no faith?

[Ingtar]

No.

That's why it is a degenerative arthritic condition.

This isn't like a torn tendon that heals. The cartilage in his knees is disappearing. He has his knee scoped to "clean it out." Not to repair something. No matter what, every time he plays, the cartilage will get worn further, it will cause inflamation and pain, and the "junk" (cartilage fragments, bone spurs, etc) floating in his knees can even end up damaging the tendons. He can keep getting scopes, but it doesn't make him better. The only way to make him better is to give him total knee replacements.

The knee stuff really worries me, but the guy has a ton of talent. It is pretty much a given he will have an abbreviated career, but I think he can give us some great years if he does not get too much more structural damage. There are things that can be done to alleviate his discomfort and technology is only getting better.

I completely agree with you on Thomas. He is a heck of a talent, just raw. We need patience with him, but if we stay patient it will pay dividends. The thing that stood out most about him in college was his excellent ability to run after the catch.

[SnyderMustGo]

If his knees were this bad coming into the draft why in the world would anyone select him? Is there anything out there stating his knee condition? I don't remember hearing arthritic knee. Thanks.

There were threads here on ES about it pre-draft when we discussing whether he would be a good pick.

Mayock talked about the degenerative arthritic condition on the NFLN. He also published the reports about teams taking him completely off their draft boards because of it. There was a quote here (from WaPo I think) about his knee being the worst a doc had seen. There was discussion about it while he was at OU. Search around, and you can find these things.

Then, of course, we have the actual evidence since we draft him. Can't practice for extended periods of time in a row. Has to go get his knees scoped by Andrews. Still can't practice. Keeps having soreness and swelling. Those are all the classic signs--not of tendon damage--but of cartilage damage which would not be there for a player of his age unless he had osteoarthritis in his knees (or degenerative knees). Everything that has happened since we drafted confirms the pre-draft discussions. This is exactly the course you would expect from someone who has arthritic knees.

[whitejimmy]

No.

That's why it is a degenerative arthritic condition.

This isn't like a torn tendon that heals. The cartilage in his knees is disappearing. He has his knee scoped to "clean it out." Not to repair something. No matter what, every time he plays, the cartilage will get worn further, it will cause inflamation and pain, and the "junk" (cartilage fragments, bone spurs, etc) floating in his knees can even end up damaging the tendons. He can keep getting scopes, but it doesn't make him better. The only way to make him better is to give him total knee replacements.

Regarding your knee replacement idea... I just have one word the throw out there for consideration: bionics. I know some people at OSI. I'll see what I can do.

[XxSpearheadxX]

Guys medical technology is improving every day, remember the prognosis on Carlos coming out of his first exam? It was possibly career threatening and they said 8-12 months, he was back at 6 and seems no worse for the wear.

i almost made a post on it seriously I am amazed with Carlos's recovery from a gruesome injury, what makes us think that in 5 years cartilage implants won't be perfected?

[Ray Brown]

Thomas was taken because of his upside. Its like when NBA teams draft high schoolers because of potential over proven college players. He is an exceptional athlete but is just very raw when it comes to route running, big game experience, etc.

I think Kelly was taken because he game is ready for the NFL,at least thats what they thought when drafting him. I think he's much more prepared for the pros than Devin is at this point, but in the long run Thomas could end up being the better WR, espicially if Malcom's knees don't hold up.

[DieHard86]

the good ones were mostly drafted, coulda took a flyer on one with the 2nd or 3rd pick, but you act like we drafted 2 tubs of pudding and some garlic bread.

well we didn't need wideouts as bad as we needed d-line, and we certainly didn't need wideouts who couldn't get themselves on the field in a competent way. so until they produce, yes, I am of the opinion that pudding and garlic bread are superior.

[XxSpearheadxX]

well we didn't need wideouts as bad as we needed d-line, and we certainly didn't need wideouts who couldn't get themselves on the field in a competent way. so until they produce, yes, I am of the opinion that pudding and garlic bread are superior.

Least catches by a teams receivers since sometime in the 1960's.

WRs that are midget and can easily be thwarted by any type of zone coverage.

James Thrash.

I beg to differ.

[jivelikenice]

I consider them both to be bums, wastes of another stupid draft, until they prove otherwise

Then you should consider Limas Sweed, James hardy, Dustin Kellar, Donnie Avery, Joryd Nelson, and every other rookie pass catcher not names D. Jackson and Eddie Royal a bum.

Amazing how the fans here have been dying the build through the draft but refuse to show the patience required when you build this way. These guys weren't top 10 picks that aren't showing up. I mean get a grip, Calvin Johnson who was hyped as the greatest receiver prospect ever had only 750 yards in his rookie season in an offense that threw the ball much more than us.

[jivelikenice]

In terms of why draft Thomas over Kelly, everyone knew going into the draft that Thomas had the upside factor which is what a lot of the draft is really about. He may take time to get there, but Thomas has the combination of size, speed, strength that as he gets more acclimated to football can make him the best receiver out of the class. BUT...it will take some time.

[return2glory]

False. Malcolm Kelly had degnerative knee problems. This has nothing to do with a training camp injury. he had a hamstring injury and then reported swelling in his knees. The two problems have nothing to do with one another. However, drafting Kelly was taking a chance. Many doctors had reported that he shouldn't even be playing football anymore. I believe Dr. Andrews said that Kelly had teh worst knees he had ever seen. I believe that if Kelly can stay healthy he would be a steal. He has talent of a first rounder, but knees that might not hold up a year. We will have to wait and see. But, there is no denying this guy's amazing potential.

[artmonkforHOF]

This thread needs to be closed. It's like debating who's farts smell less rancid.

[downbeat87]

False. Malcolm Kelly had degnerative knee problems. This has nothing to do with a training camp injury. he had a hamstring injury and then reported swelling in his knees. The two problems have nothing to do with one another. However, drafting Kelly was taking a chance. Many doctors had reported that he shouldn't even be playing football anymore. I believe Dr. Andrews said that Kelly had teh worst knees he had ever seen. I believe that if Kelly can stay healthy he would be a steal. He has talent of a first rounder, but knees that might not hold up a year. We will have to wait and see. But, there is no denying this guy's amazing potential.

dude your braincells compose of poop.

[TheLongshot]

Then, of course, we have the actual evidence since we draft him. Can't practice for extended periods of time in a row. Has to go get his knees scoped by Andrews. Still can't practice. Keeps having soreness and swelling. Those are all the classic signs--not of tendon damage--but of cartilage damage which would not be there for a player of his age unless he had osteoarthritis in his knees (or degenerative knees). Everything that has happened since we drafted confirms the pre-draft discussions. This is exactly the course you would expect from someone who has arthritic knees.

Let's at least get this right. He got his knee scoped to clean some things out and then he couldn't practice after that as he was recovering. Before then, he had no problem practicing. There is no evidence that the issue has anything to do with a degenerative knee condition.

Macintosh also is supposed to have a degenerative knee condition as well, but so far it doesn't seem to affect him. (The knee injury last year was on the other knee.)

What Kelly brings that none of the other WRs on the team bring is a tough receiver with great hands to catch those balls over the middle. He was the type of receiver that a lot of people have been requesting on this board for years and probably what they needed most of all. Thomas has the potential to be a great WR, but right now it is all potential.

Jason

[MumboSauce]

Yup, scare of his longevity/knees. The whole 40time incident at his pro day probably detracted a bit too. Thomas while raw, apparently has the higher upside for being an all around dynamic WR, speed, size etc.

[smoke-n-mirrors]

Either way, they will both be out there on Sunday! We are in desperate need for somebody with some hands!! Kelly is a monster if he can stay on the field! Hopefully we'll utilize him while he is.

[jayl1985]

So let me get this straight. One has bad knees right out of college and the other isn't ready to contribute? Makes me rethink the idea of drafting two wideouts with the top two picks just a little. I hope they both can get on the field and help us this season because lord knows we need it. I say put thomas at punt returner because randle el has been horrible since he's been here.

[LoveDaSkins172645]

How come nobody is talking about Thomas? He was supposed to be the best WR in the draft and nobody is talking him up as some super prospect like they are Kelly.

Thomas is nothing more than a 1 year wonder, he had a great season and you know our front office they can't help but drool over mirages. :laugh:As I said in a previous post this front office does nothing but waste picks on shiny pennies rather than to pick up the diamond's in the ruff! This draft should have been for linemen offense and defense, not for some 1 year wonder fluke (Thomas) and a WR with a degenerative knee condition (Kelly) and then add to that Davis the TE that can't afford an alarm clock.

Until either lightning strikes or Danny and Vinnie are NO LONGER in charge of drafting we will not hardly ever get a good draft. We could have had Shawn Merriman and who did we draft? Enough said I am getting another Migraine just thinking about the totally assinine decisions Runt Snyder and Bug Eyes continue to make year after year and draft after draft.

[SonnyJ]

Amazing how the fans here have been dying the build through the draft but refuse to show the patience required when you build this way...

I'm constantly shaking my head in amazement at the sheer quantity of people who talk out of both sides of their mouths - "be patient and build through the draft, but the players you pick better be immediately productive or they are hopeless and you suck for drafting them!". :laugh:

I'm not sure which are funnier - it's either them or those who who want nothing but linemen on the team and feel that the Redskins should just draft only linemen, because football is won "in the trenches".

Of course, these groups considerably overlap. Cliche-ridden, hypocritical, GM wanna-bes - you gotta love 'em.

[REDSKINZ-RIDEORDIE]

No.

That's why it is a degenerative arthritic condition.

This isn't like a torn tendon that heals. The cartilage in his knees is disappearing. He has his knee scoped to "clean it out." Not to repair something. No matter what, every time he plays, the cartilage will get worn further, it will cause inflamation and pain, and the "junk" (cartilage fragments, bone spurs, etc) floating in his knees can even end up damaging the tendons. He can keep getting scopes, but it doesn't make him better. The only way to make him better is to give him total knee replacements.

DAM, that sounds BAD..........

[RedskinDan0557]

I still believe that Kelly can make an impact this year (soft hands). Thomas might take a year to develop. Davis could sub for Cooley now and do fine. My guess is Tryon will be our biggest bust from this years draft.

[REDSKINZ-RIDEORDIE]

Dam, Zorn said that Kelly may be inactive for the Saints game???? What the hell??!??!!!!!!

WR Malcolm Kelly is "on his way" Zorn said in his return from knee surgery, but the coach said the team still may keep him inactive against the Saints.

[BoRnAndRaiSedSkinsFan]

I think the difference was knee injury and potential. Kelly was regarded as a more NFL ready receiver in the draft. Thomas was considered to be have the potential to be the best receiver in the draft. He was supposedly physical and able to run after the catch... I haven't seen that yet and heard he's timid about getting hit. I think they should have him run crosses more to give him a better to chance to run after the catch b/c he'll be catching in stride. I really want Kelly to play this weekend though. Everything I've heard indicated he actually catches the deep balls thrown by JC.

[CRobi21]

Dam, Zorn said that Kelly may be inactive for the Saints game???? What the hell??!??!!!!!!

WR Malcolm Kelly is "on his way" Zorn said in his return from knee surgery, but the coach said the team still may keep him inactive against the Saints.

Coach doesn't want him active if he still won't be able to contribute to the offense yet, becuase there are more pressing needs on special teams. If Kelly isn't 100%, Zorn will sit him one more week to make sure he is.

[AMERICASTeam]

Kelly is by far the better receiver because he was born and raised here in Longview, TX, a former Longview Lobo, and a big COWBOY fan!!!!!!!! lol!!!!!!!!!!