Our Offense under Gibbs II vs. Zorn

[Cooley4President]

Therefore, all else being equal (in terms of defense performance--big assumption), if Zorn manages to average more than 21 points a game offensively, we will win about 2/3rds of our games. I, for one, think this is a distinct possibility, which is why I think we have a great chance to be a playoff team this year even though we are flying under the radar for the most part from a national media spotlight perspective.

I agree, we should be able to win a lot of games with 21 points, but that's only assuming we get another solid year from our defense. I remember reading that in 2004 we could have won something like 10 or 11 games had we just gotten to 17 points because of the way our defense kept other teams off the scoreboard.

[ttr77]

For those that read a lot into preseason analysis -

"I am surprised Tom Coughlin hasn't been fired yet. He just hasn't been able to bring a fairly talented Giant team together. He is supposed to be a disciplinarian, but the Giants have never been a disciplined team. Coughlin is coaching on borrowed time, a one year contract extension for the 2007 season that is."

http://www.nfl-draft-site.com/2007/08/notes-from-nfl-preseason.html - August 20, 2007.

[gortiz]

so you are saying that the more points you score the better chance we have to win games...

WOW

if you were trying to be funny, real bad attempt.

If you were just being a-hole, props on a mission accomplished.

He put some time into this, you could have at least contributed with something more then what that annoying 3rd grader would have done.

Onward ...

Its pretty sad that in JG's three years we only scored over 40 once. There is no question with the exception of 2006 the defense carried this team. It is a crazy irony here though because sometimes I feel part of the reason for the D being so strong over the last few years was because of JG's conservative, ball control/field position type of game. But, I don't think JG ever found that balance of when to take a shot and when to play conservative.

JZ on the other hand will be different. Anybody notice when we the O is in striking distance to the endzone JC is taking his shots. Its great, and real departure from before. I really do think JC won't comprise the D like a Mike Martz does. The new offense is all about ball control. I'm not sure, but I think over the last few years The Hawks have either lead or been near the top with regards to length of drives.

[gortiz]

Spurrier's Preseason record:

Notice the amount of points scored in the second half, when the Ole Ball coach was playing pitch and catch against the other team's scrubs and still calling everything in the playbook.

Osaka Bowl Box Score:

1 2 3 4 OT T

49ers (0-1-0) 0 7 0 0 7

Redskins (1-0-0) 0 14 10 14 38

Week 1 Preseason Box Score

1 2 3 4 OT T

Redskins (2-0-0) 3 17 3 14 37

Panthers (0-1-0) 0 10 6 14 30

Week 2 Preseason Box score

Steelers (0-2-0) 0 17 17 0 34

Redskins (3-0-0) 0 0 14 21 35

Week 3 Preseason Box Score

Redskins (4-0-0) 7 9 10 14 40

Buccaneers (2-1-0) 0 7 3 0 10

Week 4 Preseason Box Score:

Patriots (3-1-0) 0 21 0 7 28

Redskins (4-1-0) 0 0 7 7 14

10 points in the first quarter in four games! :laugh:

[Morneblade]

10 points in the first quarter in four games! :laugh:

I noticed that as well. That really does show how the Spurrier offense performed 1st team against 1st team. Not very well. Zorn is doing much better. And I cant tell you how much better organized everything seems to be running with him as a HC.

[TSO]

I noticed that as well. That really does show how the Spurrier offense performed 1st team against 1st team. Not very well. Zorn is doing much better. And I cant tell you how much better organized everything seems to be running with him as a HC.

Yup, those stats alone should enough for anyone trying to compare what's going on right now with Spurrier. ttr77, you should be able to see just how different things are going right now. If you can't, you're nothing more than a negative nancy for the sake of being one.

Lots of things can happen, like injuries, that may be the reason we stink it up come the first game of the season. Either way, there is no reason to not feel good about what's happened so far. You can't just keep saying "oh, it's preseason" over and over again as if there's no difference between our first team guys going out there and stinking it up compared to our guys doing a good job.

[ttr77]

Yup, those stats alone should enough for anyone trying to compare what's going on right now with Spurrier. ttr77, you should be able to see just how different things are going right now. If you can't, you're nothing more than a negative nancy for the sake of being one.

Lots of things can happen, like injuries, that may be the reason we stink it up come the first game of the season. Either way, there is no reason to not feel good about what's happened so far. You can't just keep saying "oh, it's preseason" over and over again as if there's no difference between our first team guys going out there and stinking it up compared to our guys doing a good job.

Sorry, it IS preseason. And preseason is basically televised practices where each team's primary goal is to not get any starters injured. Sure, the Skins starters scored a couple of touchdowns. So they look better than they did under Spurrier. That's great. Well, in a few weeks their record goes to 0-0. That's when I'll start paying more attention to what happens.

[gortiz]

Sorry, it IS preseason. And preseason is basically televised practices where each team's primary goal is to not get any starters injured. Sure, the Skins starters scored a couple of touchdowns. So they look better than they did under Spurrier. That's great. Well, in a few weeks their record goes to 0-0. That's when I'll start paying more attention to what happens.

That's crap because if the Skins were looking bad and

throwing picks,

getting delay of games,

fumbling the ball,

calling unnecessary timeouts

not scoring

playing conservative

letting teams pass and run all over them

looking confused in the huddle on O and coming off and on the field on D and

not getting first downs and sustaining drives ...

You would be ****ing up a storm and magically it would not be just preseason ...

They are not doing the above, and so it is fair and justified to give out some props. Do you have to temper your enthusiasm yes, do you have dismiss their progress as irrelevant ...NO.

[ttr77]

That's crap because if the Skins were looking bad and

You would be ****ing up a storm and magically it would not be just preseason ...

I would? What makes you think so? I've never ****ed about preseason results. Because good or bad, they don't mean anything come September.

They are not doing the above, and so it is fair and justified to give out some props. Do you have to temper your enthusiasm yes, do you have dismiss their progress as irrelevant ...NO.

How do we know its progress? What happens if they lose to the Giants by 30 points in the 'real' opener? Then it wasn't progress. It was simply justification for everyone to jump on this board and talk about how great they are, when we really don't know a damn thing.

[skins4eva]

That's crap because if the Skins were looking bad and

throwing picks,

getting delay of games,

fumbling the ball,

calling unnecessary timeouts

not scoring

playing conservative

letting teams pass and run all over them

looking confused in the huddle on O and coming off and on the field on D and

not getting first downs and sustaining drives ...

You would be ****ing up a storm and magically it would not be just preseason ...

They are not doing the above, and so it is fair and justified to give out some props. Do you have to temper your enthusiasm yes, do you have dismiss their progress as irrelevant ...NO.

Agreed. I'm not saying we're going 13-3 or even 12-4 this year, but it's certainly a welcome change to see a team running smoothly this early in the season. Of course, it's just the preseason, but I remember criticizing our performance under Gibbs II in the 2004 preseason only to be attacked by the older posters on this board who said that Gibbs is so "vanilla" in preseason and it doesn't mean a damn thing. Turns out we were ranked 31st in scoring that year and our struggles in preseason lasted throughout the year.

Zorn is a 2008 offense. What does that mean? I think it means more points. I also think it means defenses will have to play on their toes because we will using all of our weapons on any given play.

Additionally, Zorn really hasn't gotten into his playbook. He's no dummy. We haven't used shotgun once. That right there should tell you he's holding back plenty and wants to see our offense operate on a very fundamental, basic level.

[D'KanSkinFan]

I never compared the two coaches. Just their preseason records at this point in their coaching careers. And had I been a regular visitor of this board during Spurrier's first preseason, I bet I would have seem some posts similar to this one lauding his style and winning ways.

ttr77~

I am not comparing the coaches or their styles; however, I DO remember Spurrier and he never, never worked with the Quartbacks and the "O" line the way Zorn has worked with them. I realize this is the "new" WCO that Zorn wants the "O" to go too, but Spurrier never "thought out of the box", if you will;) to train to a "new offensive style". It was "what it was".

Before Zorn "really got started in training camp~ if I remember right, it was mini camp that he said Casey R. wasn't high enough with his "center" stance for Jason to get out of the pocket fast enough. To me, this indicates Zorn has a critical eye; I don't think Spurrier had this "eye" for improvement, if he didn't~ he didn't display it.

Again, I was like everyother fan "back then"~ enjoyed the preseason and the WINS~ "while they lasted"~ but I think with Zorns' dedication~ he won't sit back on his laurels and coast through the season; my firm belief is that Coach Zorn will trouble shoot an area and "get it fixed", should the area need fixing.

I didn't ever see or hear of that with Spurrier.

Now back to your original post statement~ Gibbs II vs Zorn: Gibbs II equated to: "competitive assistant coaches wanting his job", Zorn = New and shaken' 'em up ; truly will be interesting to see the HEAT during Regular Season. Right now~ we are seeing the "make the team" vs "we are the team with our new coach and here is what "WE" look like"

:logo: Hail :logo:

[ttr77]

ttr77~

I am not comparing the coaches or their styles; however' date=' I DO remember Spurrier and he never, never worked with the Quartbacks and the "O" line the way Zorn has worked with them. I realize this is the "new" WCO that Zorn wants the "O" to go too, but Spurrier never "thought out of the box", if you will;) to train to a "new offensive style". It was "what it was".

Before Zorn "really got started in training camp~ if I remember right, it was mini camp that he said Casey R. wasn't high enough with his "center" stance for Jason to get out of the pocket fast enough. To me, this indicates Zorn has a critical eye; I don't think Spurrier had this "eye" for improvement, if he didn't~ he didn't display it.

Again, I was like everyother fan "back then"~ enjoyed the preseason and the WINS~ "while they lasted"~ but I think with Zorns' dedication~ he won't sit back on his laurels and coast through the season; my firm belief is that Coach Zorn will trouble shoot an area and "get it fixed", should the area need fixing.

I didn't ever see or hear of that with Spurrier.

[/quote']

Agreed. Spurrier was a joke of a coach in the NFL. And I hope we will use a different barometer when sizing up Zorn. Anyway, all indications are that he is better in every facet of the game. My only point is that it is FAR too early to make any type of judgment on his eventual success, or lack thereof.

[TSO]

I would? What makes you think so? I've never ****ed about preseason results. Because good or bad, they don't mean anything come September.

How do we know its progress? What happens if they lose to the Giants by 30 points in the 'real' opener? Then it wasn't progress. It was simply justification for everyone to jump on this board and talk about how great they are, when we really don't know a damn thing.

I don't see many people here saying we're great just yet, if at all. Those who do are quickly brought down to earth by even the most optimistic and hopeful among us. The thing you're having trouble understanding is that preseason DOES mean something. You said it yourself "And preseason is basically televised practices where each team's primary goal is to not get any starters injured."

Other than the ridiculous statement you make about the primary goal (yeah, let's forget about all the guys trying to make the team and the first team offense/defense getting into a rhythm and getting a feel for the speed of the game again), you're right.

So, if you're saying preseason is like televised practices and also saying preseason is meaningless, that means you're saying that practice is meaningless. Nice.

I'd rather have my guys looking smooth and efficient during practice, then have them stink it up. PERIOD. You can't keep clinging on to the "preseason is meaningless" argument when not one coach in the NFL would agree with you. It does mean something, no matter how little. We should all be glad we look pretty good so far, and that it's not our backups beating the other teams backups.

[TSO]

They are not doing the above, and so it is fair and justified to give out some props. Do you have to temper your enthusiasm yes, do you have dismiss their progress as irrelevant ...NO.

Quote of the day. :applause:

[desertfox59]

This proves to me the Al Saunders Folly. I'll always wonder what Gibbs third season would have been like had we given His system another year.