Duties of a Citizen?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

If they can't afford it, they don't need in. In which case it doesn't need to be produced in the first place; freeing those people up to do other, more important jobs.

Like...what exactly? Planting potatoes? Building ICBMs?

This all sounds rather Stalinist.

I honestly don't think you know what collectivism is, even though you constantly rail against Socialists. Because, I mean, you are a Socialist or at the very least a Statist.

[headexplode]

Also, I agree with you that it is the duty of each American to learn and speak proper English.

Clearly, most people on this board have would have trouble with this one. I mean, if first-language English speakers can't even speak or write properly, why should we expect anyone else to?

[Mass_SkinsFan]

Like...what exactly? Planting potatoes? Building ICBMs?

This all sounds rather Stalinist.

I honestly don't think you know what collectivism is' date=' even though you constantly rail against Socialists. Because, I mean, you are a Socialist or at the very least a Statist.[/quote']

Authoritarian and Statist, definitely. Socialist, not really. I have no problem with a Capitalist society working within the borders of the US. I just believe that since the American people have proven themselves incapable of producing and maintaing an appropriate society that the government is the only reasonable group left to introduce, enforce, and maintain that society.

[JohnLockesGhost]

Death' date=' enslavement, poverty, and religious zealotry. Good times.[/quote']

What I really don't get is MSF's devotion to America, as if to say "Everything inside this country, nothing outside."

But this country is defined by its ideals. We are a created country. We don't have an ethnically homogeneous population like a Japan or Korea, or pretty much any other country. We don't have long-held borders that go back to time immemorial. The only thing that ties us together as a people is common belief in the ideas of Life, Liberty and pursuit of Happiness.

So how he both worships the very idea of America while simultaneously disparaging its only truly defining characteristic is beyond me.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

Clearly, most people on this board have would have trouble with this one. I mean, if first-language English speakers can't even speak or write properly, why should we expect anyone else to?

That is a related, though separate issue. I agree that most Americans need a serious review of the English language, its grammar, syntax, and spelling.

[JohnLockesGhost]

Authoritarian and Statist, definitely. Socialist, not really. I have no problem with a Capitalist society working within the borders of the US. I just believe that since the American people have proven themselves incapable of producing and maintaing an appropriate society that the government is the only reasonable group left to introduce, enforce, and maintain that society.

So you're essentially a little-F fascist. You have no problem with anything per se as long as it's good for the state.

(Apologies for the Latin usage.)

[headexplode]

Authoritarian and Statist, definitely. Socialist, not really. I have no problem with a Capitalist society working within the borders of the US. I just believe that since the American people have proven themselves incapable of producing and maintaing an appropriate society that the government is the only reasonable group left to introduce, enforce, and maintain that society.

So, more government control? I admit, I have trouble keeping up with your contradictions.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

What I really don't get is MSF's devotion to America, as if to say "Everything inside this country, nothing outside."

But this country is defined by its ideals. We are a created country. We don't have an ethnically homogeneous population like a Japan or Korea, or pretty much any other country. We don't have long-held borders that go back to time immerorial. The only thing that ties us together as a people is common belief in the ideas of Life, Liberty and pursuit of Happiness.

So how he both worships the very idea of America while simultaneously disparaging its only truly defining characteristic is beyond me.

Well, if you ever quiz him deeply, you find that he means no immigration, he means pretty much shipping back anyone whose family wasn't here in 1885.

Here is my question: how can we be an English-only society when half of our territory is annexed territory that was inhabited by Spanish-speakers.

Basically what we are demanding is that if your family lived in San Antonio for 300 years, you need to abandon your culture and history and start listening to...I dunno...Turkey in the Straw or something.

You are right: the beauty of America is that there is no "America."

I once posted a thread asking someone to define american culture and someone listed "Pizza" as the quintessential American food. I believe that was done without irony.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

But this country is defined by its ideals. We are a created country. We don't have an ethnically homogeneous population like a Japan or Korea, or pretty much any other country. We don't have long-held borders that go back to time immerorial. The only thing that ties us together as a people is common belief in the ideas of Life, Liberty and pursuit of Happiness.

So how he both worships the very idea of America while simultaneously disparaging its only truly defining characteristic is beyond me.

Yes, we are a created country. Created with a set of borders that have expanded over time. Created on a set of ideals and values. It is those values and ideal that people have come to the United States seeking to become part of. Unfortunately we've lost those values and ideals in the last century. We need to get them straightened out and reasserted if we're going to be worth anything in the future.

[JohnLockesGhost]

Yes, we are a created country. Created with a set of borders that have expanded over time. Created on a set of ideals and values. It is those values and ideal that people have come to the United States seeking to become part of. Unfortunately we've lost those values and ideals in the last century. We need to get them straightened out and reasserted if we're going to be worth anything in the future.

So we're going to preserve our values by promoting the exact opposite of those values.

Interesting.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

But this country is defined by its ideals. We are a created country. We don't have an ethnically homogeneous population like a Japan or Korea, or pretty much any other country.

By the way, this is why all Americans need to travel more.

Forget Japan or Korea. When you stand in England, you realize that this place has always been here and has pretty much always been just like this. Rome doesn't quite feel that way, because Rome has always been an international city. I mean, Rome imported Gods from Greece.

But London - even modern London - feels, well, English. You actually get the sense of being on an island - a highly powerful, extremely important island. Still, you get the sense that more ideas flowed outward than flowed inward. It sometimes feels like the only things the English have ever "borrowed" are soul music, curry, and the House of Windsor.

I don't get that sense in the US at all. Everything here came from somewhere else and was then refined into something "American."

Need proof? The Crossainwich.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Yes, we are a created country. Created with a set of borders that have expanded over time. Created on a set of ideals and values. It is those values and ideal that people have come to the United States seeking to become part of. Unfortunately we've lost those values and ideals in the last century. We need to get them straightened out and reasserted if we're going to be worth anything in the future.

You've never been able to define those "values." My guess is because you have no idea what they are.

Name three American "values." Go.

[dcnativenerd]

By the way, when I say keeping jobs here in the nation, I'm not saying we shouldn't buy foreign products. Once again, if the product made overseas is better than the one made here, by all means, BUY IT!

[Mass_SkinsFan]

So you're essentially a little-F fascist. You have no problem with anything per se as long as it's good for the state.

More or less. Personally, I'd LOVE to see individuals be able to produce and maintain a proper society, but humanity has continuously proven that is not possible. Therefore there is no system other than government to produce, maintain, and enforce that proper society. I see the government's main goal as enforcing that society and the basic overall governance of that society and very little more.

So, more government control? I admit, I have trouble keeping up with your contradictions.

Government control over some things. Mostly the things that the people are unable or unwilling to properly control for themselves.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

More or less. Personally, I'd LOVE to see individuals be able to produce and maintain a proper society, but humanity has continuously proven that is not possible. Therefore there is no system other than government to produce, maintain, and enforce that proper society. I see the government's main goal as enforcing that society and the basic overall governance of that society and very little more.

Government control over some things. Mostly the things that the people are unable or unwilling to properly control for themselves.

Like their brains and sex organs and career choices and money.

Other than that...total freedom.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

So we're going to preserve our values by promoting the exact opposite of those values.

Interesting.

It would seem we have a different view on what those values really were compared to what people want to believe they were.

You've never been able to define those "values." My guess is because you have no idea what they are.

Name three American "values." Go.

Arrogance, Violence, Superiority

[Mass_SkinsFan]

Like their brains and sex organs and career choices and money.

Other than that...total freedom.

Something like that, Lkb.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Something like that, Lkb.

So, in the Mass World Order, what decisions could I actually make?

[JohnLockesGhost]

Arrogance, Violence, Superiority

Well then what are you complaining about?

We're not arrogant enough? Violent enough? Superior enough?

I'd think you'd love our situation right now.

[JohnLockesGhost]

So' date=' in the Mass World Order, what decisions could I actually make?[/quote']

Where you want the hot poker.

[headexplode]

Government control over some things. Mostly the things that the people are unable or unwilling to properly control for themselves.

I just don't get it. On the one hand, you argue that socialism, or governmental market intervention, is destroying the country. On the other hand, you argue that the government should intervene in the moral sphere, and carefully regulate the mores and values of our country, which sounds like fascism to me.

So, my question is, why is socialism so bad but fascism so good?

And, my second question is, why do wish to enforce values you learned from your strict Christian upbringing when you have renounced your faith?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Where you want the hot poker.

No gay stuff though.

[JohnLockesGhost]

No gay stuff though.

That's true. Wouldn't want to corrupt our values.

[headexplode]

No gay stuff though.

Gay stuff is fine, as long as you cut yourself, after.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I just don't get it. On the one hand, you argue that socialism, or governmental market intervention, is destroying the country. On the other hand, you argue that the government should intervene in the moral sphere, and carefully regulate the mores and values of our country, which sounds like fascism to me.

So, my question is, why is socialism so bad but fascism so good?

And, my second question is, why do wish to enforce values you learned from your strict Christian upbringing when you have renounced your faith?

And where did you hide the fat man that you are force-feeding?

(Joke! It's a Joke about Seven. Because I am timely).