Tommy-the-Greek Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 If Iraq uses Chemical or biological weapons on allied troops or against Isreal will we use tactical nukes? I am sure we have brought them with us into theater. I want to know what everyone thinks on this issue. I believe we used this bluff to our advantage the first time around. I also believe Saddam has seen the footage on CNN or MSNBC that when Baker met with Aziz before the last war Baker's threat was a bluff. Saddam after seeing this probably believes we will not use them. That is not a good thing. We all know the moment this starts he will lob scuds into Isreal. If he loads them with WMD what do we and Isreal do? If he uses artillary shells with WMD against our troops what is our response? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 Tommy, because Hussein knows without question his removal is our goal this time around, even if he believed we would respond with nukes, I'm not sure it would deter him much. I believe he knows he won't survive this (either he'll be captured and tried for war crimes, or at best he'll escape to Syria or some other country). What I'd be telling him is that we'll give him and his family a chance to escape alive as long as he doesn't use chem/bio weapons. But if he chooses to use them, we'll come after him and his sons regardless of where they go, and that they will be tried for their crimes. Unfortunately, I think regardless of what we say he will use them. His ego is unlikely to allow him to 'cut and run'. He's a monster, but I don't think he's a coward. If he wants to go out in a blaze of glory (which every indication points to) then he has nothing to lose by using them. I also don't think we'll respond with nukes regardless. We are going in to liberate the people of Iraq. I think absorbing a WMD attack without retaliation would go a long way towards proving that we really are the benevolent force we claim to be. I'm not saying it wouldn't be gratifying to turn part of Iraq into a parking lot should he use WMD's first, but in the long run it would not be in our interests. I think the bigger challenge would be to keep Israel from using them should Hussein be able to pull off a major nerve gas strike in urban Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 No, but I think Israel would. If Saddam unleashesa chem or bio attack inside the US then yes, without a doubt we will pull our troups out, let Saddam and his henchman celebrate for the days we are pulling out, then turn it into the worlds largest parking lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 Israrel is currently trying to leverage this concern into extra moneY: 2 billion in military aid, and 8 billion in loans/grants...etc..... Egpyt, Jordan and obviously Turkey are all trying to do the same...though for less money.........once Iraq is taken care of....the Bush admin is going to have to drop the hammer on the whole Palestinian/Israeli situation....no one is going to be happy....but the time has arrived to clean this mess up in a way that is just for all parties involved.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy-the-Greek Posted March 17, 2003 Author Share Posted March 17, 2003 I guess this topic is too touchy for most to reply. I don't know where I stand on this issue. Sure the macho guy in me wants to say nuke em if they hit our troops first, but the christian in me says if we use them over there it opens up the door to terroristist using them here and I can't agree with killing on such a massive scale. The reason I wanted an open discussion is because I believe Saddam will use them this time. I think he will try to hit our ground troops and hit a few Isreali cities. Then what happens next scares the hell out of me. The ultimate Pandora's box might be opened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 Originally posted by Kilmer17 If Saddam unleashesa chem or bio attack inside the US then yes, without a doubt we will pull our troups out, let Saddam and his henchman celebrate for the days we are pulling out, then turn it into the worlds largest parking lot. While that is the course of action that I would hope we would take if Saddam did that, I doubt that the US would do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montilar Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 I would have to think that ultimately the response depends on the circumstances. If he were to use them, it SHOULD sway even the French.... But if he uses them and "gets away with it" (i.e. no response from the US), then it incourages others that the US will not respond.... It's a tightrope they have to walk. I'm sure the response will much ,much harsher, even without an equivalent use of WMD, than it would of been if he doesn't use WMD. Hopefully his aids and generals realize the consequences if he orders their use and take the appropriate action...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SkinsHokie Fan Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 If Isreal responds it will be the spark to launch WW3. Isreal must, I repeat, must stay out of this conflict in every possible circumstance or the s%$ will hit the fan and hard. If we use it that will be a horrible decision. I think as hard as it is to say gotta bit the bullet on this one. We gotta maintain the high ground in the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 I think its pretty much a lock if Saddam uses WMD on Israel, Israel will respond with a nuke. The Arab street will revolt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 And do what? Invade Israel again? Not a chance. The US wouldnt stand for it and Im certain they have made that clear to the Arab leaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy-the-Greek Posted March 18, 2003 Author Share Posted March 18, 2003 IF Saddam uses WMD against our troops will the antiwar morons finally believe Iraq has the weapons or will they say we gassed our own troops? When he uses them that is the proof that he has had them all along, and this war was necessary. The troops should have reporters with them as they go into cities looking for the weapons so they can confirm we found them and didn't place them in the country. I also hope we round up some Al Queda followers in the process, and that they have enough info in there possesion to prove the link between Saddam and Osama to the morons of the world.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 I think stating that any Israeli action results in WWIII is a pretty hysterical statement. Israel (don't blow a gasket here) has the RIGHT to defend herself just as any other country does. I also think its a real stretch to think Israel's going to use nukes even if some sarin-laced artillery rounds or scuds land in Israel. They can't just indiscriminately launch a nuke for one thing....we've massed forces there and they would be at risk. Secondly, the Israelis are under intense pressure to maintain their composure here, and they stand to lose incredible amounts of US aid if they aren't playing with the team here. I don't know why some of you guys buy into this media 'certainty' about what Israel will and won't do and what will result. Says who? The good news is that although I think we have ample evidence Hussein has large stores of Nerve and Mustard agents, and Anthrax stores, he doesn't have a whole lot in the way of accurate delivery systems. Artillery is probably the biggest threat to us, and that will be taken out the minute he fires it so its a very limited threat. I think he'll use chemical and bio weapons, but I think the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of his delivery systems will mean neither the US nor Israel will have to go to extreme countermeasures. We (and Israel) are a lot smarter than some of you all give credit for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 I think Tarhog nailed it. However justified their use might be, the negative symbolic effect of using nukes in Iraq would be so great that it would take a truly cataclysmic event brought about by the Iraqi use of WMD's before we'd even consider it. And I don't think that our military will allow that to happen to them, so that necessarily means I suppose an attack upon either American civilians, or else civilians in a country closely allied with us, that brought about massive casualties. I happen to expect Iraq to use these weapons; I am not expecting us to be in a position to need/want to use nukes. And as Kilmer said the wild card is Israel in this regard. I don't trust Sharon to use restraint if chemical or biological warheads start landing in Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy-the-Greek Posted March 19, 2003 Author Share Posted March 19, 2003 Do you guys think we will do what we did last time to keep Isreal from striking back? Last time we did not give them the codes they needed so there planes would show up as friendlies. That kept them from flying into Iraq to bomb something. I believe Saddam is a wild animal trapped into a corner. He expects to go out with a big bang and go out fighting. I have no doubts in my mind that he will attempt to use WMD. He will load scuds with chemical warheads to hit Isreal. The only good thing is that they arent accurate. It would be like trying to hit a golfball with a bottle rocket from 3 blocks away. I am worried about other arab countries comming to Iraq's aide if he can draw Isreal into the conflict. When our troops advance northward out of Kuwait. I am concerned about our eastern flank if Iran decides to attack into Kuwait. I am also concerned that a Pakastani general loyal to the fundalmentalist movement would give a nuke to a 3rd party to use against our troops. I also worry about a revolution in Saudi Arabia and the radicals trying to surround and take over our bases there isolating our troops. Sure the chances of these things comming to pass is probably extremely low and, I am just over reacting. I just have a really bad feeling that something is going to go wrong. I woke up last night in a cold sweat all wound up from a nightmare. I usually don't remember my dreams but this image is etched in my brain and I can still see the hundreds or maybe thousands or us troops dead and dying on a sandy beach. The sand and water was blood red and I couldn't get back to sleep. We should all say a prayer for our men and women in the armed forces. May the Lord bless and protect them and return them home to there loved ones victorious. God bless the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 Scary image in your dream, ttg. I pray that doesn't happen to our men and women serving over there. In truth, I don't know what we'll do if anything to stop the Israeli's. The best thing would be for them to simply realize that the negative repercussions of an Israeli attack would outweigh the need for retaliation. But I have little faith in that given how aggressively Sharon has responded to Palestinian violence, and given how loathe he is to appear weak. As for other Arab states joining into the battle, I have a tough time imagining that happening short of an Israeli attack upon them. For example, I would expect all hell to break loose in the Middle East if Israeli armor drove through Jordan into Iraq or something. But which Middle Eastern Arab state is really ready to fight Israel? Short of that scenario, the Jordanians, Lebanese, and Saudi's are not. The Egyptians and Syrians could I suppose, but they're not really a technological match for Israel's military and have already suffered a couple of ***-kickings each from them. Instead of that, what I worry about more is the overall effect of Israeli military involvement upon terrorism and the push for political dominance of fundamentalist Islamic parties in the long term. Potentially I worry that that could more than outweigh the gains we make in a post-war Iraq with a more stable and moderate leadership there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagsbch Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 "It would be a hugely bad choice on the part of any Iraqi leader or commander to employ chemical weapons," McKiernan said. Asked what the response would be to such an attack, McKiernan simply replied "dramatic." http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/news/iraq/0303/19chemical.html If prophecy holds true Isreal will use Nukes. Thanks for helping keep me grounded. With all of the conspiracy stuff, all this info can easily have ya going coocoo over cocoa puff's;) I think as soon as the impact from recent solar flairs eases up we will attack they have been recorded @ 800KM/sec!!. They can be leathel to war effort (satelites). I think thats what we are waiting for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskin56 Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 There are other ways to respond to a chemical or biological attack on our troops other than Nukes. The new MOAB is a 21,000 pound bomb equal in force to a small tactical nuke. We could unleash several of these bombs without anyone raising an eyebrow because they are "conventional" weapons. These types of strikes would be more than enough to retaliate for the use of WMD. I would say that we target the places that Sadaam most likely would be hiding and use the MOABs to hit those areas. I know he is likely to be underground in hardened shelters, but destroying everything on top of him would make it difficult for him to leave the shelter. Once we gain control over the country, he'd be found. Hopefully like Hitler, he'll take his own life and he'll be denied entry into the Muslim heaven because Suicide is the ultimate sin for Muslims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagsbch Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 I hear MOABs delivery is suseptible to anti aircraft fire... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskin56 Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 Yes they are..................... They are delivered from a C-130 cargo plane. However, we wouldn't use those until we owned the skies over Iraq. The way the planning is going, we would have air superiority in a short period of time. If Sadaam uses chem or bio weapons in the earlier stages, then our retaliation with MOABs would certainly come during the later stages of the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 Originally posted by Jagsbch I hear MOABs delivery is suseptible to anti aircraft fire... only when they still possess anti-aircraft weapons :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 I don't think that Saddam is going to last until we can get our hands on him. I have to believe that a military commander is going to assasinate him now that they know that he's as good as gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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