Vinny's Influence....

[HAILSKINSNYC]

just like Dan, I think Vinny has gotten a bad rap unfairly.

this is the 3rd year that it's been jut Dan and Vinny....in 2 of the 3 years we haven't done much in free agency and we've had alot of draft picks.

I think the lack of draft picks the past 4 years is more a reflection on Gibbs then front office approach.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

we'll never know if it was gibbs or vinny making some of these bonehead moves, but if it wasnt vinny, he should have been a stronger influence on gibbs if he truly disagreed with some of the moves we made.

im still torn on whether we actually didnt wanna go spend crazy this year, or if we just physically couldnt get under the cap in time. 7 mil isnt that far under the cap, considering some of the cap space other teams have and the moves theyve made.

[MikeBass]

we'll never know if it was gibbs or vinny making some of these bonehead moves, but if it wasnt vinny, he should have been a stronger influence on gibbs if he truly disagreed with some of the moves we made.

im still torn on whether we actually didnt wanna go spend crazy this year, or if we just physically couldnt get under the cap in time. 7 mil isnt that far under the cap, considering some of the cap space other teams have and the moves theyve made.

7 mil is plenty under the cap to have made some moves if it was in the team's plans to do so.

[ntotoro]

That cap figure will change as players get signed, traded, cut, etcetera. Then there's the draft. I don't care how far under the team is, personally. There will be some older guys over the next few years who will no longer be with the team and that will affect the numbers. There really wasn't a load of FA's out there worth giving money, although I didn't realize Hackett was going to go for such a relatively inexpensive amount. Still think we should look to the draft for a WR, but not with the #1 pick.

[CAMPBELL2MOSS4SIX]

we'll never know if it was gibbs or vinny making some of these bonehead moves, but if it wasnt vinny, he should have been a stronger influence on gibbs if he truly disagreed with some of the moves we made.

im still torn on whether we actually didnt wanna go spend crazy this year, or if we just physically couldnt get under the cap in time. 7 mil isnt that far under the cap, considering some of the cap space other teams have and the moves theyve made.

Can those other teams say they have all 22 of their starters signed and lets not forget the Skins were a playoff team. So 7 mil under the cap is pretty dam good if you ask me.

[#98QBKiller]

Can those other teams say they have all 22 of their starters signed and lets not forget the Skins were a playoff team. So 7 mil under the cap is pretty dam good if you ask me.

The fact that we have all 22 starters returning and almost all of our draft picks (plus the comps) says a lot about us taking a step in the right direction.

[CG]

just like Dan, I think Vinny has gotten a bad rap unfairly.

this is the 3rd year that it's been jut Dan and Vinny....in 2 of the 3 years we haven't done much in free agency and we've had alot of draft picks.

I think the lack of draft picks the past 4 years is more a reflection on Gibbs then front office approach.

I'll agree with this too. Also, the moves we've made in FA have done pretty well, barring catastrophic failure of Arch and Lloyd.

Fletch, Smoooooooot and Carter have all turned out better than we could have planned, and not many people want to bring that up when talking about Vinny & Co.

We've drafted pretty well too.

[kuraitengai]

The fact that we have all 22 starters returning and almost all of our draft picks (plus the comps) says a lot about us taking a step in the right direction.

couldnt agree with you more.

[Going Commando]

There really wasn't a load of FA's out there worth giving money

That's the most plausible reason for why the team didn't sign anybody. I think it had less to do with our cap situation, than with a specifically thin free-agency pool given that so many other teams had huge cap space to resign their own players. I don't think it was because we couldn't afford free agents, or because the FO changed to become less aggressive or switched to a draft emphasized strategy. I think it's because there was almost no one to be had and only the really depserate and poorly managed teams spent ridiculously on mediocrity. This offseason isn't really that much different in approach than the last one, the only significant acquisition they made was signing Fletcher, and I'm sure they would have done the same this year if there had been a quality guy available that wouldn't require a 50 million deal. I don't think the FO has switched its philosophy to an extreme draft focus, I think that they are only saying they will focus on the draft this year because they happened to find themselves with 9 draft picks. Dan Snyder still might trade away half of next years picks in a Chad Johnson deal come mid-summer.

[SkinsRMoney06]

I like how so many were totally convinced the Snyder/Cerrato two headed monster was going to absolutely destroy this team after gibbs left. I remember so many threads about "We need a GM" or "Vinny is Snyders yes man". Well, it looks like everything that we were looking for, i.e. not breaking the bank on FA's, keeping our draft picks, resigning core redskins, has come to light without a new GM. I think Vinny knows what hes doing and will do his best not to F up the skins.

[TheLongshot]

we'll never know if it was gibbs or vinny making some of these bonehead moves, but if it wasnt vinny, he should have been a stronger influence on gibbs if he truly disagreed with some of the moves we made.

Problem is, Gibbs was ultimately the boss and whatever he decided was the direction the team was going to go. Vinny could disagree as much as he wanted, but if Gibbs wanted to go a different direction, that's the way they were going to go.

Now, we will figure out how Vinny does with that kind of power.

im still torn on whether we actually didnt wanna go spend crazy this year, or if we just physically couldnt get under the cap in time. 7 mil isnt that far under the cap, considering some of the cap space other teams have and the moves theyve made.

Snyder mostly answered those questions in his interview, and some more information is in the interview with Zorn at the Owners Meeting.

Jason

[HAILSKINSNYC]

to suggest that Vinny should have spoken up more against Gibbs decsions is unrealistic...Gibbs is one of the greatest coaches of all time and a redskins legend....he's probably the one guy who snyder would fire Vinny for if Gibbs wanted him fired....I think contrary to the media trying to portray it as a 3 headed monster with dan, vinny and joe, it was mostly joe...dan and vinny provided support, but joe had final say.

if Vinny disagreed too often, I'm sure joe would have had him fired.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

im still far from completely trusting vinny and danny. we have no idea whats going on with that chad johnson nonsense, nor what were going to do with our picks. its looking promising right now, but this plan has to actually work. the idea is good, execution is much more important.

[CAMPBELL2MOSS4SIX]

to suggest that Vinny should have spoken up more against Gibbs decsions is unrealistic...Gibbs is one of the greatest coaches of all time and a redskins legend....he's probably the one guy who snyder would fire Vinny for if Gibbs wanted him fired....I think contrary to the media trying to portray it as a 3 headed monster with dan, vinny and joe, it was mostly joe...dan and vinny provided support, but joe had final say.

if Vinny disagreed too often, I'm sure joe would have had him fired.

I agree with you 100%. That is why I will alway say Joe was forced out, fired however you want to look at.

[HAILSKINSNYC]

Joe was forced out?....I don't buy that for one minute...I'm not sure why you think that...who do you think forced him out?..Dan?..Vinny?

[CAMPBELL2MOSS4SIX]

Joe was forced out?....I don't buy that for one minute...I'm not sure why you think that...who do you think forced him out?..Dan?..Vinny?

He had 1 year left on his contract and the Skins were a playoff team. He said he wanted to spend more time with the family but he went right back into the NASCAR thing like a week later.

So what would you rather say, Joe was forced out/fired or would you rather say Joe was a quitter?

[TheLongshot]

Wear tin hats much?

Sometimes, the most likely scenario is the simplist one. Considering all reports say that Joe Gibbs has looked much better since retiring tells me that it was a personal choice. Anyways, if you were forced out, would you still be hanging around Redskins park and talking to players and coaches?

Jason

[SkinSabbath]

I agree with you 100%. That is why I will alway say Joe was forced out, fired however you want to look at.

I understand where this idea comes from, but I have a hard time believing they KNEW Gibbs was going to quit a year early... The shock of his departure and the scramble for a new coach just doesn't add up... (Plus deep down inside i HOPE they wouldn't can our legendary coach, after he graciously agreed to come out of retirement to save our franchise)

As for Vinny, I'm REALLY happy that someone with his background in both playing AND scouting is now firmly in control of the team. Danny would NEVER COMPLETELY give up his title as supreme dictator of the team, but it's clear that he has invested his faith and the team's future in Mr. Cerrato.

I think we're goin' in the right direction :cool:

[MikeBass]

im still far from completely trusting vinny and danny. we have no idea whats going on with that chad johnson nonsense, nor what were going to do with our picks. its looking promising right now, but this plan has to actually work. the idea is good, execution is much more important.

LOL BLC, you are quite the skeptic...you create a thread about Vinny C. keeping the draft picks and now that he has kept them you do not trust him to use them.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

LOL BLC, you are quite the skeptic...you create a thread about Vinny C. keeping the draft picks and now that he has kept them you do not trust him to use them.

of course im skeptical, look at his draft track record!!

and the thread i made was just about keeping them, and im glad he did. thats just one small step. im not gonna be excited if we use 9 draft picks on safties, fullbacks, and linebackers, then have 6 of them get cut in spring training.

[TheLongshot]

of course im skeptical, look at his draft track record!!

and the thread i made was just about keeping them, and im glad he did. thats just one small step. im not gonna be excited if we use 9 draft picks on safties, fullbacks, and linebackers, then have 6 of them get cut in spring training.

Different coaches, different player priorities. Anyways, Vinny has already outlined the team's needs and it doesn't differ much from what most of us think, so I'm not worried. Course, it doesn't mean we will get everything on the list, but that's the reality of the draft: not always can you address everything you need.

Jason

[ADF]

I think contrary to the media trying to portray it as a 3 headed monster with dan, vinny and joe, it was mostly joe...dan and vinny provided support, but joe had final say.

To me, it appeared that even the assistant coaches (GW & AS) had more of a say than Vinny. These guys were making a ton of money and wielded a lot of power while Gibbs was here. Coaches tend to have a very shortsighted view of things. There isn't much job security in their profession. What this team needs is a longterm approach. That can only happen if the person who is making the decisions plans on being here awhile. That is why it is better to have someone in a GM like role making the choices. Hopefully, Vinny can get the job done. He's placed himself front and center now. The choices he makes over the next few seasons will either make or break the team.

[TheLongshot]

To me, it appeared that even the assistant coaches (GW & AS) had more of a say than Vinny. These guys were making a ton of money and wielded a lot of power while Gibbs was here. Coaches tend to have a very shortsighted view of things. There isn't much job security in their profession. What this team needs is a longterm approach. That can only happen if the person who is making the decisions plans on being here awhile. That is why it is better to have someone in a GM like role making the choices. Hopefully, Vinny can get the job done. He's placed himself front and center now. The choices he makes over the next few seasons will either make or break the team.

Vinny expressed his opinion in the scouting reports. From there, the coaching staff would make their preferences known and Gibbs would be the final word. Vinny then executes whatever Gibbs wanted.

I actually think that Gibbs did make a lot of good long-term decisions for this team. 2006 was definitely a stumbling block and maybe that was because of short-term thinking, but since Gibbs didn't really have to fear for his job, he could afford to make moves that wouldn't pay out immedietly.

Jason

[MikeBass]

of course im skeptical, look at his draft track record!!

and the thread i made was just about keeping them, and im glad he did. thats just one small step. im not gonna be excited if we use 9 draft picks on safties, fullbacks, and linebackers, then have 6 of them get cut in spring training.

His draft track record includes selecting players like Dana Stubblefield and Bryant Young, pro bowlers like Lee Woodall in the 6th round, Elvis Grbac in the 8th round and TERRELL OWENS who was a little known receiver out of Tenneseee-Chattanooga, in the 3rd round. I think that he is a very good college prospect talent evaluator.

[TheItalianStallion]

I actually think that Gibbs did make a lot of good long-term decisions for this team. 2006 was definitely a stumbling block and maybe that was because of short-term thinking, but since Gibbs didn't really have to fear for his job, he could afford to make moves that wouldn't pay out immedietly.

I agree and would go even further by saying that ARE and Carter did, in fact, work out. During all of Gibbs II, I think the only FAs that didn't work out were Lloyd, Archuleta, Fauria, and Patton.