BG Posted March 14, 2003 Author Share Posted March 14, 2003 Originally posted by Tarhog Hey DB...the military screens recruits for aptitude, intelligence, etc...but they don't fill the infantry/ground MOS's with idiots. I had a higher GT (essentially IQ score) as an enlisted man than my Company Commander. Its the Infantry and ground combat forces that win/lose wars (apologies Air Sarge). Yes you might end up in a technical field, but not necessarily. If you joined the Marine Corps, one of the things I loved about them is that their primary philosophy is 'every Marine is a rifleman', regardless of what obscure technical field you might ultimately end up in, you had better be a stud physically, and be ready and prepared to drop your calculator or laptop and participate in death and destruction if necessary. They also are one of the most enlightened organizations in the world when it comes to race relations (not that there aren't problems and barriers). In the Marine Corps they say there is no white/black/hispanic Marines. You're all green....some are light green, some dark green, but you're green. Know this is off-topic, but I tire of the portrayal of the ground-pounders as cannon-fodder and as 'too dumb' to do anything else. There's nothing easy or intellectually lightweight about fighting on the ground in the 21st century. And on a final note, I wouldn't want a draftee next to me in the service. I want to KNOW that every single soul in my unit is there because they believe its right and because they want to be, not because they were compelled to be. Tarhog, that was a great post. Tar, I dunno if you have served or not. I can only imagine that if I had enlisted already, I would wholeheartedly agree with you--which I do regardless-- I have some good friends that are marines and have had my *** handed to me by some marines. You are right. Marines exude the most honor and ease to assimilate than most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG Posted March 14, 2003 Author Share Posted March 14, 2003 I would assume though that you have served............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 I did 10 years Marine Infantry (5 enlisted, the last 5 as an Infantry Officer)...I had the chance to pick my specialty for the 2nd 5 year stint and almost chose to become a Hawk Missile officer. Just couldn't do it, and went back to the grunts. Don't get me wrong though, I've said before, those who serve in the military are no more 'heroes' than those that go to work every day, support their families, live honorable honest lives, and love their kids with all their heart. I think there are lots of ways to 'serve your country' and the military isn't for everyone. You definitely don't have the option to pick and choose where you (as the arm of US military force) will be applied. If you can't live with that, you'd better not join. I think if there is one thing I could communicate to those without military experience it is this and this alone: Those in the US Armed Forces are generally the same smart, individualistic, maverick, difficult to control, outspoken, pain in the @ss types that populate every other corner of America. They are not a bunch of unquestioning, lower intellect, brainwashed, blindly patriotic sheep that many (including the mass media at times) portray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Trevor Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 I'd try everything legally to get out of it and if that didn't work I'd head straight for Canada. Guess I'm about the only one here willing to admit that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 that's cool Trevor....as long as you never come back!!!! as for the more reasonable...I think RD presents the best scenario.....let the armed forces remain voluntary - no sense poisoning the well with folks who don't want to serve....but provide for optional national service that serves the country in some beneficial fashion........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Since fan stole my line, I've gotta ask..why Trevor? Are you a conscientious objector (ie..believe any use of violence is immoral)? I actually can respect that position if its genuine, as long as one is willing to accept the ramifications of that position. If there were a draft (which again I would oppose), your legitimate choices would be to give up your US citizenship and leave permanently, or accept a prison sentence. Do you not feel there are circumstances where force is justified and necessary? Are you unwilling to subordinate your own personal political beliefs and accept command authority? Whats your reason for feeling so strongly, I'm really curious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Trevor Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 I don't really feel strongly about it or anything political as I pay very little attention to that type of thing. I'm just not the military type and would last about 3 minutes in it so I would choose not to go. I was just being honest in saying I would want no part of the military, I probably should have kept my mouth shut.:gus: I don't know enough about the upcoming war to offer a view that probably would be too easy to be torn apart by someone who follows politics and the war closely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Personally, in terms of "this war", there is no way that you will see a draft unless our country was attacked directly... if that was the case, you would not have nearly as many people that would be unwilling to serve. It's very different when it hits home. The 9/11 attacks are a great example in terms of the rise in patriotism. I know that you guys (tarhog, fansince and kilmer as well as others) don't agree with me in the sense that I don't feel Iraq is a direct threat to the US,(with out provocation) but I would surmise that that is the reason many would not want to serve.. I'm not saying you guys are right are wrong, but the fact remains that for what ever reason, many Americans do not support a war in Iraq and I would venture to say it is because of the view that Iraq does not threaten us.... I have a bigger fear if the US starts the war... why? because then it gives Iraq an open invitation to start terrorism or for nut cases to... I'm 32, so I don't have to worry about getting drafted.. But I can understand those who are opposed and those who are for war. For me... Yes, I am against for now, but regardless, you won't see me protesting or anything like that... that's a little overboard for me, I just have my opinion, I wouldn't necessarily act on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Originally posted by Trevor I don't really feel strongly about it or anything political as I pay very little attention to that type of thing. I'm just not the military type and would last about 3 minutes in it so I would choose not to go. I was just being honest in saying I would want no part of the military, I probably should have kept my mouth shut.:gus: I don't know enough about the upcoming war to offer a view that probably would be too easy to be torn apart by someone who follows politics and the war closely. No bashing intended Trevor, I was honestly curious. Respect your honesty. Although I agree with some that some type of mandatory service might be good for our citizens, its BAD for our military. I want guys and gals that are committed to doing their duty (and not just surviving a 1 year mandatory stint). I don't think the military IS for everyone. A large chunk of USMC recruits are washed out of every platoon that goes through Parris Island for that very reason. No reason to 'keep your mouth shut'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG Posted March 15, 2003 Author Share Posted March 15, 2003 Well, it seems that in light of a few dems speaking out, we may see the issue of some sort of "mandatory" service come up in the next year. I doubt it would be a huge debate as I am sure it will be stomped by the media's assumption that it would mean for certain that a draft is being invoked. I certainly agree with some type of service. Whether it is serving for charities, ie: hab. for humanity, salv. army, etc. or government organizations, ie: dept of health & welfare, chamber of commerce ( ROAD CONSTRUCTION bee-otch!!!! fix em!!!) or what have you. However, just like we saw with the draft, the rich/overprivledged will find some way out of it. This would bother me. I do however feel that the option of choosing the military as your mandatory service would be great for many, but I can see Tarhogs point that having an untrained schlep beside you in combat would be horrendous. You are faced with the "can't wipe your own arse" syndrome. In short, I can realluy only see the positives for invoking a mandatory service. What negatives there are, I have not completely explored yet. I have given it thopught and cannot think of any discrepencies other than the unfairness of who has to serve......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 the voluntary force is working well.....so long as the pay is commensurate with the opportunity cost.... look......you join the military on some short-fuzed, however well intentioned, notion of obligation you are more likely to land up in the rear than in the front making a difference. you won't receive the training to make a contribution in the short-run. better that this fit into a bigger picture of where you want to go with your life over 5-10 years. I can buy into Trevor's idea/self-knowledge that he just wouldn't fit into the culture. Military service is not the only way to make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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