Awesome Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Defintalely the DL of theirs is better, they don't have to blitz to get pressure, we do and we end up leaving our secondary out to dry with one on one coverage. It pains me to say it, but nice job Gmen. You road is coming to an end. I can not and will not roopt for another NFC East Team. Dude, root for the conference, root for the NFC East to show people that it is the hardest division in football, and that to get to the Super Bowl, the Giants didn't get to play the Jets and Dolphins twice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacon Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 As a point of reference to comparing defenses, here's the 2007 stats: Pittsburg Tampa Indy NE Tenn B'more NYG Skins Dallas Philly Our defenses were not that far apart. And, to top it all off, we have offensive talent as well. :doh: Mediocre O&D lines + terrible coaching will get you where we are right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaganaut Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 Dude, root for the conference, root for the NFC East to show people that it is the hardest division in football, and that to get to the Super Bowl, the Giants didn't get to play the Jets and Dolphins twice The Giants and Eagles share their hatred of the Cowboys with the Redskins which kind of neutralizes the nastiness between us and them. The fact that other NFC East teams (Ok, even Dallas) have mostly class act players (Exclude Roy Williams, Owens and Shockey) means that it's probably Ok to root for the NFC East out of respect. I still see the #21 stickers on their helmets and it makes me want to shake their hands. I hate New England more than any NFC East team now due to them faking the 4th down spike against the Skins. I hope Strahan does a Theisman on Tom Brady's leg snapping it like a twig. No tears for that. I will be rooting for the Gimps as the underdog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Oh I am sure we will get more of the "coverage sack" proponents again this offseason. They already have us picking corner in the first round. Why they don't want a beast on our front four is beyond me. :puke: the fear of drafting D-lineman in the 1st round plus the fact that they believe all we need is one more CB and we'll be fine. :doh: Some people will never realize that CB/S are a distant second to D-line and LB play. Most people can't tell you the name of any of the CB's or the FS for the Patriots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 If we can get our QB to play like Eli then we can talk. You have to give Eli all the credit in the world to play 3 road playoff games and not throw one pic is amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever21 Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Come on guys, let's not pretend the New York Giants are all of a sudden the model franchise. This very board is split on whether we gave up too much for Jason Campbell but the Giants gave up almost an entire draft's work of picks for Eli Manning, who has posted worse stats than Campbell. Yes, Manning is part of a Super Bowl team and deserves credit, but not THAT much credit.The only thing I admire about the Giants teambuilding is the way they always pick up crazy defensive linemen. Exactly. The reason they're in the SB is because their defence is playing over it's head and they have taken the game out of Eli's hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 If we can get our QB to play like Eli then we can talk. You have to give Eli all the credit in the world to play 3 road playoff games and not throw one pic is amazing. How much pressure did any of the Giants opponents place on Eli during the playoffs? I don't remember once when he was sacked or really hurried. He also kept defenses honest by being able to hand the ball off and his RB's actually getting some good carries. Campbell can do the same with an upgrade to the OL and a solid possession receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaganaut Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 If we can get our QB to play like Eli then we can talk. You have to give Eli all the credit in the world to play 3 road playoff games and not throw one pic is amazing. This is an amazing stat. I'm not sure that road games are the same for the Giants though. Their own fans are so nasty that I've heard players like Barber and Strahan say that the road games are a total relief to them. Campbell is in Eli's league, but he had a battered offense this season. I will repeat: give Campbell their line, backs and receivers... then make your judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Campbell can do the same with an upgrade to the OL and a solid possession receiver. Lets hope. In the big games he turned it over too much, hopefully it was more becaues he did not have a #1 WR and a banged up OL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 I thought about it, and really, our defensive line is not that bad.Andre Carter had a beast season. Phillip Daniels is serviceable as is an aging Griffin or a green Golston. Montgomery is making leaps. But the real problem is as soon as one of them gets injured, we start breaking out the excuses again. Meanwhile, if the Giants have to play without Strahan or Umenyiora, they've still got Kiwanuka or Tuck. Sigh. I agree, if we can get a GREAT d-lineman I am all for it, but I do NOT want to draft a D-lineman simply to put a body in there. Let's draft a GREAT player, regardless of position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 That's the problem. It LOOKS like we could've done what the Giants have done, but we didn't. We are better than the Giants in almost every facet except.. Yup, the defensive line.You can't be telling me that RW McQuarters and Corey Webster are getting interceptions because they're All-Pro corners. Except that Osi and Strahan have mostly been handled by Dallas and Green Bay. To be fair, their D-Line hasn't been playing much differently than ours, because with the exception of late in the Cowboys game, they haven't been getting to the QB either. I'll give their defensive backfield some credit with stepping up. Course, it helps that Brett Favre pretty much was throwing up gifts to the defensive backfield. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 We need a great WR. Limas Sweed, welcome to the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InTikiITrust Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 How much pressure did any of the Giants opponents place on Eli during the playoffs? I don't remember once when he was sacked or really hurried. He also kept defenses honest by being able to hand the ball off and his RB's actually getting some good carries. Teams, like the Packers last night, put 8 in the box to stop the run. Manning made a lot of big game throws and made them pay by putting 8 in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaganaut Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 I agree, if we can get a GREAT d-lineman I am all for it, but I do NOT want to draft a D-lineman simply to put a body in there. Let's draft a GREAT player, regardless of position. Look at London Fletcher. We can get great players through free agency sometimes too. Seattle got their pro bowl defensive lineman from Atlanta. We can do the same. We need to find and keep players like Strahan and Toomer who form the basis of the team and leadership in the locker room. There are a number of awesome defensive linemen in the draft this year. Calais Campbell is athletic enough that he is expected to be a starter and potential star in his rookie year. After being coached for a few years, he will be a pro bowler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 And, to top it all off, we have offensive talent as well. :doh: Mediocre O&D lines + terrible coaching will get you where we are right now. Our passing game was suspect. Our running game was not as potent as desired. O-line was hurt, so that did contribute, but we need a big WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Look at London Fletcher. We can get great players through free agency sometimes too. Seattle got their pro bowl defensive lineman from Atlanta. We can do the same. We need to find and keep players like Strahan and Toomer who form the basis of the team and leadership in the locker room. There are a number of awesome defensive linemen in the draft this year. Calais Campbell is athletic enough that he is expected to be a starter and potential star in his rookie year. After being coached for a few years, he will be a pro bowler. Agreed. O am just worried we may draft a D-lineman simply to get a DE. Last season we needed one, but Jamaal Anderson hasn't lived up to expectations yet. Landry was the right pick. I don't want to pass up on a Landry. Yet, I don;t want to pass up on a Strahan/Reggie White, etc. We will address DE needs either through draft or FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Lets hope. In the big games he turned it over too much, hopefully it was more becaues he did not have a #1 WR and a banged up OL. ... and experience... He needs to protect that ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins n' Bones Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Talent-wise, we are very comparable to them. Yes, they are better in some areas, and we are better in some, but if we hadn't been hit so hard by the injury bug, who knows. I think that is what the original poster was getting at...not specific positions. It's another thing that shows just how wide-open the NFC was this year. If our team was able to close out just a couple more games, we could have been the #5 seed and then, who knows. But we didn't. I kept seeing this team as a year away....next season with more experience (esp. for JC) and a couple more pieces in place, some of those loses become wins and who knows how far we could go. But of course now everything is up in the air pending the new HC... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyJ Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 I think the main reason why they are in the Superbowl and we are not is that we had to go to Seattle and deal with their home field advantage, while the Giants went to Tampa Bay, where they filled it with half of their fans... Pretty much end of discussion here. They earned a more favorable draw by getting that extra victory. If the Redskins hold on in the second half in the first Giants game, or don't give up that big pass play that got the Bills in FG range, then we could very well be discussing the Redskins going into the Super Bowl. Let's not play revisionist history here. Yes, the Giants have better pass rushers along their DL. Burress is the type of weapon that the Redskins just don't have. Still, these factors do not create a large chasm between the two franchises. The Redskins are just as good, if not better, in many other facets. The Redskins just beat this Giants team (in the Giants home stadium) up pretty good only a month ago, and was definitely on a hotter roll going into the playoffs. I believe the Bucs arranged their finish so they could face the Giants in the playoffs. Just a little over two weeks ago, on the eve of the playoffs, the Giants were probably the least likely team in the NFC to make the Super Bowl. They played a Tampa team that just wasn't very good, a Cowboy team that was past its peak, and a Green Bay team that got an awful performance from its QB. The fact is that the Giant pass rush wasn't too fierce last night - it seemed that they were playing the run first. Favre's picks were just the result of awful decision/throws and good coverage. You could see Favre was just frustrated by the lack of big plays. Give them credit for playing a better than their opponents throughout the playoffs. But don't make them out to be this juggernaut with this stacked roster that is immeasurably more talented at some or every position than the Redskins, and that it is clear that their approach to roster development makes it obvious why they are in the Super Bowl and the Redskins aren't, because it just isn't the case. The statistics show that the two approaches worked equally well. It's just that the Redskins had to travel across the country to cold, wet, Seattle with a deafening stadium, and the Giants got to go to sunny, warm, Tampa and a far more hospitable stadium. If you reverse those matchups, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. The debate would have been whether or not Coughlin should keep his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaganaut Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 Agreed. O am just worried we may draft a D-lineman simply to get a DE. Last season we needed one, but Jamaal Anderson hasn't lived up to expectations yet. Landry was the right pick. I don't want to pass up on a Landry. Yet, I don;t want to pass up on a Strahan/Reggie White, etc.We will address DE needs either through draft or FA. I just read a piece in ESPN magazine this morning on the metro and it correlates all the college awards for the best players with NFL success. Here's some of the results (higher is better): Rotary Lombardi Award (Lineman/linebacker) 8.8 Outland (Interior linemen) 8.7 Bronko Nagursky (Defensive player) 8.6 Chuck Bednarik (Defensive player) 8.1 (Thorpe, Butkus, Belitnikoff respectively 6.4, 6.2, 5.8) Heisman Memorial Trophy 5.4 The article attributes the linemen awards as being better predictors of NFL success being due to the least amount of change between college and NFL. The worst position for college to NFL is quarterback and the best DE. So... we should be happy to take a DE with our first round pick. It's deep this year. The DE's are from big name programs like Miami, Florida and USC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Except that Osi and Strahan have mostly been handled by Dallas and Green Bay. To be fair, their D-Line hasn't been playing much differently than ours, because with the exception of late in the Cowboys game, they haven't been getting to the QB either.I'll give their defensive backfield some credit with stepping up. Course, it helps that Brett Favre pretty much was throwing up gifts to the defensive backfield. Jason sorry the giants can get pressure with just 4 guys, we can't even smell the qb with the 4 guys :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistahsmif Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 We need a big receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papabear Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 The small difference is that they are in the SB, and we are not Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaganaut Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 Pretty much end of discussion here. They earned a more favorable draw by getting that extra victory. If the Redskins hold on in the second half in the first Giants game, or don't give up that big pass play that got the Bills in FG range, then we could very well be discussing the Redskins going into the Super Bowl.Let's not play revisionist history here. Yes, the Giants have better pass rushers along their DL. Burress is the type of weapon that the Redskins just don't have. Still, these factors do not create a large chasm between the two franchises. The Redskins are just as good, if not better, in many other facets. The Redskins just beat this Giants team (in the Giants home stadium) up pretty good only a month ago, and was definitely on a hotter roll going into the playoffs. I believe the Bucs arranged their finish so they could face the Giants in the playoffs. Just a little over two weeks ago, on the eve of the playoffs, the Giants were probably the least likely team in the NFC to make the Super Bowl. They played a Tampa team that just wasn't very good, a Cowboy team that was past its peak, and a Green Bay team that got an awful performance from its QB. The fact is that the Giant pass rush wasn't too fierce last night - it seemed that they were playing the run first. Favre's picks were just the result of awful decision/throws and good coverage. You could see Favre was just frustrated by the lack of big plays. Give them credit for playing a better than their opponents throughout the playoffs. But don't make them out to be this juggernaut with this stacked roster that is immeasurably more talented at some or every position than the Redskins, and that it is clear that their approach to roster development makes it obvious why they are in the Super Bowl and the Redskins aren't, because it just isn't the case. The statistics show that the two approaches worked equally well. It's just that the Redskins had to travel across the country to cold, wet, Seattle with a deafening stadium, and the Giants got to go to sunny, warm, Tampa and a far more hospitable stadium. If you reverse those matchups, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. The debate would have been whether or not Coughlin should keep his job. I agree with this sentiment as well, but as the thread states there's a slight difference between the teams and the Giants D-Line gets a nod by one player or two. The Skins are just injuries away and a receiver on offense from the Superbowl. I agree that Tampa was the pick we wanted in the playoffs, but credit is due to the Gimps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcarey032 Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Yes their Defensive line is better than ours. They get a heck of a pass rush from their front four where as we are inconsistent. They were a far better road team than we were this year. However, we were able to rattle off four straight wins, which was impressive, given what the team went through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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