Oldskool Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 If Lott is the best ever, like I said I am more impressed with Sean for all the reasons I stated. As far as 4 super bowl rings, give ST a great QB like Joe Montana and i firmly believe he could have done the same That has nothing to do with how Lott played. Montana had nothing to do with his overall stats. All Pro honors- ST was 2nd team post humaniously this year That's great. Again has nothing to do with this. He would have led the league in ints more than twice Does your crystal ball tell you this? Because it didn't happen in this timeline. But like I said stats and accolades cant be argued in this case because Seans accolades are a big "would have" Exactly kid. Youre dealing in coulda, shoulda, oughta, woulda and What IF land now. Your opinions seem more based on Madden than anything else. Again, Sean was getting to be one of the greatest current NFL safeties before he was taken. Dude wasn't even in his prime yet. But to say that he was the greatest ever is to diminish the position and the great players that came before him. You cannot speculate on things that can never occur. BUT! Ronnie doesnt match Seans size, speed, athleticism, jumping ability, or personally...toughness (because he bragged to the media...being tough is NOT letting ppl know your hurt) Thats why I think the 07 Sean Taylor was the best ever OK lets play your game. Let's extrapolate his 9 game, 2007 season to a full 16 game season. He had in 9 games, 42 tackles, 0 safeties, 9 passes defended and 5 Interceptions. That is 4.67 tackles per game, 1 Pass Defended per game, and .56 interceptions per game. Through a 16 game season, that is 74.72 tackles, 16 passes defended, and 8.96 Interceptions. Great numbers but not earth shattering at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve09ru Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 i tried to stop thinking about it...thanks both a feeling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stp240 Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 z And I'm assuming since you've seen it all your opinion is more valid. Just because I'm 21 doesn't mean I don't have access to video. Seen Lott, thought he was the dominant player of his generation. Seen Houston, loved what he did for the Skins. I love Sammy Baugh, but how on earth do you compare him to Taylor at 40 lbs. lighter and not nearly as fast?Just because I bear his name in my monocur doesn't make it idol worship. You may not see another athlete like him again. Not versatility like that. A man who can lead a team in tackles one year and then turn around and lead the league in interceptions the next. A man who can hit harder than any linebacker and can close on a ball as fast as any corner in the league. A man who could have been a starting running back in the NFL, but chose to play safety because he himself said he wanted, a "challenge." AMEN ST = :1stplace: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 there's just not enough games in his career to make that statement. i have no doubts if he would've had a full career, his name would be one of the first mentioned in regards to best safeties ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 And I'm assuming since you've seen it all your opinion is more valid. Just because I'm 21 doesn't mean I don't have access to video. Seen Lott, thought he was the dominant player of his generation. Seen Houston, loved what he did for the Skins. I love Sammy Baugh, but how on earth do you compare him to Taylor at 40 lbs. lighter and not nearly as fast?Just because I bear his name in my monocur doesn't make it idol worship. You may not see another athlete like him again. Not versatility like that. A man who can lead a team in tackles one year and then turn around and lead the league in interceptions the next. A man who can hit harder than any linebacker and can close on a ball as fast as any corner in the league. A man who could have been a starting running back in the NFL, but chose to play safety because he himself said he wanted, a "challenge." Dawkins is great, not the best, not as many times as I've seen him get run through. Reed is great, but not the complete package Taylor was. Their ball hawking skills were on par, but no way Reed could hit like that. Polamalu is heavier on blitzing than coverage, I doubt he could transition from SS to FS as Sean could. My mind is not clouded. Lott was a RB and was converted to safety, he had five seasons of at least 100 tackles, and played 3 different positions with honors and its universally regarded as the best safety ever. Ken Houston returned 9 int's for TD Willie Wood (all 5-10 of him) had a career 48 INT's. Sammy Baugh played both sides of the ball and is regarded as one of the best players ever to play the game. period. Taylor was talented. No doubt. Greatest ever? Never had the chance to prove it, sadly enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve09ru Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 That has nothing to do with how Lott played. Montana had nothing to do with his overall stats.That's great. Again has nothing to do with this. Does your crystal ball tell you this? Because it didn't happen in this timeline. Exactly kid. Youre dealing in coulda, shoulda, oughta, woulda and What IF land now. Your opinions seem more based on Madden than anything else. Again, Sean was getting to be one of the greatest current NFL safeties before he was taken. Dude wasn't even in his prime yet. But to say that he was the greatest ever is to diminish the position and the great players that came before him. You cannot speculate on things that can never occur. BUT! Ronnie doesnt match Seans size, speed, athleticism, jumping ability, or personally...toughness (because he bragged to the media...being tough is NOT letting ppl know your hurt) OK lets play your game. Let's extrapolate his 9 game, 2007 season to a full 16 game season. He had in 9 games, 42 tackles, 0 safeties, 9 passes defended and 5 Interceptions. That is 4.67 tackles per game, 1 Pass Defended per game, and .56 interceptions per game. Through a 16 game season, that is 74.72 tackles, 16 passes defended, and 8.96 Interceptions. Great numbers but not earth shattering at all. you also have to think, he missed half the eagles game, which we lost due to his absence...F numbers...no one and i mean NO ONE threw deep on us while he was in there, when he was...what happened? either a pick or incomplete pass...that right there is earth shattering because we faced 2-3 top passing teams (back-to-back weeks against 1st passing plus the cards)and they did nothing downfield to us :2cents:. In fact, I don't remeber seeing anyone go downfield successfully while Taylor was back there. Figure this, these teams (with great downfield success and first in passing) had to gameplan away from ST and when they did attempt the deep ball, what happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDFan5 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Lott was a RB and was converted to safety, he had five seasons of at least 100 tackles, and played 3 different positions with honors and its universally regarded as the best safety ever.Ken Houston returned 9 int's for TD Willie Wood (all 5-10 of him) had a career 48 INT's. Sammy Baugh played both sides of the ball and is regarded as one of the best players ever to play the game. period. Taylor was talented. No doubt. Greatest ever? Never had the chance to prove it, sadly enough. psssst Paul Krause!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullnelson9999 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 this thread is rediculous...sure i wouldnt take anyone else to play for the skins this year but you have to realize that because players like reed were older they had the one thing sean didnt-experience. i hate to say it but in a big game situation i would rather have dawkins or reed back there...i trust them more theres no way you can just say that sean taylor was the best ever- he may have been on track to have 10+ interceptions but he didnt play the whole season...its possible that he could have gone into a slump...even though he had 5 picks it doesnt negate the fact that he wasnt the best player to have back in coverage and he was still prone to personal fouls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 you also have to think, he missed half the eagles game, which we lost due to his absence...F numbers...no one and i mean NO ONE threw deep on us while he was in there, when he was...what happened? either a pick or incomplete pass...that right there is earth shattering because we faced 2-3 top passing teams (back-to-back weeks against 1st passing plus the cards)and they did nothing downfield to us :2cents:. In fact, I don't remeber seeing anyone go downfield successfully while Taylor was back there. Figure this, these teams (with great downfield success and first in passing) had to gameplan away from ST and when they did attempt the deep ball, what happened? Which EVERY team has to do when there is a dominate player on either side of the ball. That being said, Taylor's numbers simply to not merit this grandiose title. Seems that the OP and some posters are relying more on emotion and not on stats and the actual play of the greats when making this call. One more time, Sean's passing was tragic. He was probably one of the top 3 safeties in the league at the time of his death. HoF? No. Greatest ever? Not a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HitStickTaylor21 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Taylor was talented. No doubt. Greatest ever? Never had the chance to prove it, sadly enough. And I'll leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stp240 Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 OK lets play your game. Let's extrapolate his 9 game, 2007 season to a full 16 game season.He had in 9 games, 42 tackles, 0 safeties, 9 passes defended and 5 Interceptions. That is 4.67 tackles per game, 1 Pass Defended per game, and .56 interceptions per game. Through a 16 game season, that is 74.72 tackles, 16 passes defended, and 8.96 Interceptions. Great numbers but not earth shattering at all. Redo those numbers crediting him 8 games, because he left the 9th early That equals Ronnies best year So ST at 24 equals Ronnies best year at 27 Also, would you admit Sean had better size, speed, strength, agility, verticle leap, and height? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Redo those numbers crediting him 8 games, because he left the 9th earlyThat equals Ronnies best year So ST at 24 equals Ronnies best year at 27 Also, would you admit Sean had better size, speed, strength, agility, verticle leap, and height? In doing metrics you cannot select certain numbers because they don't suit what you like them to say. As for Taylor's size, he was physically imposing. But that in and of itself justify anything. If that was the case, then all you'd have to do is get any pro athlete with no football skill and call them "greatest ever". Ive given you the numbers, the stats. Everything that proves my point. Youve given me emotion, bad math and logic and proved nothing. Is Taylor going to be elected to the HoF in 5 years? Didn't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSk1nsfan Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Best all time? I cant say that, I want to but I am not old enough and have not seen some of the greats of the early days. I can say this... I just watched some of his highlight clips on youtube and god damn the man was a monster. I feel so so so sad inside and just wish we could watch him do what he did so well on the field for a little bit longer. I loved watching him play and feel blessed to be able to say to my kids in years to come that I was able to watch the great Sean Taylor play live and on TV from the time he was at the U to the time he played for our loved Skins. Ill miss him forever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDFan5 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=116 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieskin Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 lets compare Sean with LL, LL is the safety I want to see excell next season, he is on track in comparison with Sean, and I believe he will be better than Sean at the same age, he watched Sean and he learned from Sean, I bet the two even discussed the why and wherefore and the how.:2cents: :logo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stp240 Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 Which EVERY team has to do when there is a dominate player on either side of the ball.That being said, Taylor's numbers simply to not merit this grandiose title. Seems that the OP and some posters are relying more on emotion and not on stats and the actual play of the greats when making this call. One more time, Sean's passing was tragic. He was probably one of the top 3 safeties in the league at the time of his death. HoF? No. Greatest ever? Not a chance. Losing arguement either way cuz your argueing against a true Redskin who was tragically killed. But Ive rewatched all of Seans games in the NFL, untill i see Ronnie on video jumping 20 ft for an int or using special powers...I wont think he is better than ST I also believe that the NFL overall has marginally better players over all now-days. With that said, ide like to see more of Ronnie on tape Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wskinsallway Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Redo those numbers crediting him 8 games, because he left the 9th earlyThat equals Ronnies best year So ST at 24 equals Ronnies best year at 27 Also, would you admit Sean had better size, speed, strength, agility, verticle leap, and height? Lott only played 14 games that year not 16 games. You can't just assume that if he played 8 more games he would have double his production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=116 I mentioned Krause earlier in my list. Dude was awesome for his day and age and even in the HGH/steroid era we are in today holds up well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stp240 Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 lets compare Sean with LL, LL is the safety I want to see excell next season, he is on track in comparison with Sean, and I believe he will be better than Sean at the same age, he watched Sean and he learned from Sean, I bet the two even discussed the why and wherefore and the how.:2cents: :logo: no...LL will not be better by next year compare rookie stats if you want, Seans are better with 4 more ints and 3 tackles difference....not to mention LL is 23 ST was 21 But stats aside...ST hit harder, like ive defended this whole time, size, athleticism, verticle...all that, ST was just a better football player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 His team asks him to play more of a SS role, and he leads all DBs in the NFL with 100+ tackles on the season. Then his team asks him to play more of a FS role, and he leads the entire NFL in interceptions before he got hurt, and later taken away from us. Who else can say they've done that? Sean could do anything he wanted on a football field. Idk. That AT LEAST, makes him just ONE of the best. I still think you can make a very strong arguement for him as the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySkin21 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Is Darren Sharper better than Ed Reed? Stats say so...is Shawn Alexander the best running back in the nfl? Stats said so in 05...Fact is that most football stats, especially defensive stats are irrelevant, simply because there are 10 other men on the field that contribute. With that said, who is/was better than Sean? Ed Reed? Darren Sharper has been better than Ed Reed on paper for years...fact is both these guys are like punt returners at safety, just sitting back and catching deep balls, Sean Taylor was used more in Run stopping than either of these men because of his ability to tackle, 111 tackles dont lie...We finally saw Sean play the true Free Safety position in 07 and had 5 int's in 7 games (aka #1). Unforunatly Sean looked bad in 06 playing on a horrid defense attempting to play FS, SS and outside linebacker... Finally playing only FS, in 07 he was the best safety in coverage statisticly, not even counting his other 9 passes defensed. (not that stats matter) He showed amazing range, QB's avoided throwing anywhere near him. ST baited quarterbacks to throw the ball deep (vs. Green Bay, watch him bait Brett Favre). No one has ever had the combination of Size, strength, speed and althleticism at the Safety position. As Redskins fan we know this. He was taller than 95% of defensive backs at 6ft 2 and Jumped through the roof. ST was undoubtedly the biggest hitter of this Era as a safety. Even after letting it be known early in his Rookie year, that anyone who comes over the middle will damn near be decapitated! We already knew how he could tackle and hit. Combining that with his coverage ability makes him the best all around safety of this Era (Dawkins, Polamalu, Wilson, Williams, Sanders, Reed, Sharper, Lynch) Not one of these men can hit/tackle or cover like Sean, let alone both! Maybe my burgundy glasses are on but im not even factoring play making ability. Which argueably Ed Reed is the only one who could match Sean. Now to Ronnie Lott...ST was bigger, faster & stronger. Admittingly all i have seen is highlights...and i see Ronnie taking the punishment from his hits, these are supposed to be the hardest hits from ARGUEABLY "the best safety ever" and i am not impressed. Sean destroyed people and hit THROUGH them. All without using helmate to helmate contact! example: Roy Williams, John Lynch, Ronnie Lott) Ronnie is often commended for his toughness. I admire Sean for never letting his pain become known. You think Sean was never hurt? He just didnt tell everyone about it! Even after spraining his knee (his 3-4 week injury) ST came back in on the next play and joined in on a gang tackle. Lott once had 10 int's in a year, a mark that ST was on pace to beat this year. So he hits harder than Anyone and covers better than anyone EVER...all this at age 24!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THAT makes him the best to ever play:2cents: Skins fans do you agree? Can you say you would really want anyone else to play FS for the Redskins? This is why i say, Sean Taylors cousin... Anthony Leon who plays FS for Florida state university he is young but he is going to be a MONSTER... I really hope he develops well and turns out to be just like his cousin or hopefully better, and HOPEFULLY if luck has it we end up having him on our team in a couple years.. The kid is 6'4'' and is 215lbs.. His page says he is fast, hits like a linebacker,but can cover like a corner and rarely if ever gets caught out of position... I would want anyone from that same pedigree as sean taylor, you cant teach that you have to be born with it... He wears the same number as ST did in college #26 and mark my words guys... this kid is going to be the real deal.... even though he is young florida state fans should be estatic he turned down tons of huge colleges uncluding MIAMI which ST went to , as everyone knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDFan5 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 I mentioned Krause earlier in my list.Dude was awesome for his day and age and even in the HGH/steroid era we are in today holds up well. My bad I should have read closer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_rasta Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Losing arguement either way cuz your argueing against a true Redskin who was tragically killed.But Ive rewatched all of Seans games in the NFL, untill i see Ronnie on video jumping 20 ft for an int or using special powers...I wont think he is better than ST I also believe that the NFL overall has marginally better players over all now-days. With that said, ide like to see more of Ronnie on tape Sean Taylor came a long way this year, but was still a ways off from even being a polished player let alone best ever. Most of his hype was based on his potential and fear of being hit by him, but he still had so much to learn. I think he surely could have been considered one of the best ever had he been given the chance at a 10 year career, but after only 4 years i don't think he could be considered the best Redskins safety ever. Ken Houston says hi.:thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySkin21 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Sean Taylor came a long way this year, but was still a ways off from even being a polished player let alone best ever. Most of his hype was based on his potential and fear of being hit by him, but he still had so much to learn. I think he surely could have been considered one of the best ever had he been given the chance at a 10 year career, but after only 4 years i don't think he could be considered the best Redskins safety ever. Ken Houston says hi.:thumbsup: disagree....what more did he have to learn?? he was 4 years into his professinal career and had already established himself as an elite player... that doesnt sound like "has more to learn" works to me. ST was the prototype Safety.. The players nowaways are so much better than players back in the older days cus guys are bigger,stronger,faster, and are eat,sleep,drinking football and weights.. In my opinion, sean taylor was on his way to becoming the best to ever lace em up at his position, period.. im sorry but no other safety had hands like him, closing speed, or can lay the wood near as close as ST. THe onlythink ed reed has over sean taylor wsa ed reed is VERY smart, but ST was not a dumbass and was showing people once he took football serious how good he was... I mean he played for us the first 3 years not really focusing on football like he did this past year and look how good he was doing.. i mean you cant deny my man, when he started taking it serious and his diet and everything... look how hungry he was and he even earned AP all pro honors ad his 2nd probowl in a row. im sorry guys but if sean taylor was on dallas or the colts or the pats... no one would think twice about saying he is the best ever... HOLLA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozskin Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 I think Ronnie Lott might have something to say about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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