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Jason and the Scheme

Oldfan

By Oldfan
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Oldfan

Oldfan

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We then run into the same problem with a qb coming into a new complex offense. We then have to wait another year or 2 for the skins to be decent on offense because this is not your average offense. This takes time for everyone to adjust to. If you want to do this why don't the skins stick with TC or better yet put Brunell back in :rolleyes:

Brunell doen't fit the system. He's proven that already. Sure, you keep Collins. You might even start him next year if he lights up the scoreboard in the next three games.

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Oldfan

Oldfan

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We dont need to settle on a capable starter. Pennington is god aweful and my Jets friends are quite happy with Clemens

Try to stick with the scenario I created just to answer the poster's question. The Jets might trade Pennington only because they think they have a franchise QB in Clemens.

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SearchHorizon

SearchHorizon

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The only difficulty about Al's scheme, as I understand it, is the volume. But, the difference between Collins and Campbell can't be explained by volume. There was a marked difference in the execution of the same plays that the team practiced during the week..

Absolutely.

As for whether JC is a good fit for AS, IMHO, one has to really wait and see. As long as JC is making good progress, you cannot just give him the boot (or give AS the boot, for that matter). TC has been with AS for a while now, and that is a pretty high standard to measure JC by.

There is a question about JC's limits and how far he may go. It is possible that JC may never be as good as TC in running AS offense, or whether JC will even come close to TC. It may be that TC has a natural aptitude for AS offense (which no one here seems to give TC ANY credit for) that JC may never be able to emulate.

Given JC's progress from game to game so far and the amount of investment we have made in JC and AS, one has to stick with the present plan and continue to develop him. We need to see some indication that JC may never get us to the promised land in AS offense, before we abandon JC or AS.

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909997

909997

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"It was too much for Campbell or any young quarterback," Vermeil said. "The volume is so great. Joe Gibbs and Al Saunders did the right thing -- restrict the package to fit his maturity. They aren't running the entire offense right now. Watch. At the start of next season, Jason will be much better than he is now because he'll get more reps in this offense."
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909997

909997

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909997,

the quote you offered was discussed earlier.

i think we need to give campbell a break

look at other QB's who are in their first few seasons

rivers, young, cutler, heck even eli manning in his 4th season struggles.

give campbell time to develop, thats y QB's in washington never pan out. We never give them a chance after 10 games we say they suck lets move on. Campbell has broke many franchise Records by coming in, most consecutive 2 td games as a rookie, the most passing yards in a game, almost broke brunells completion record against lions.

seriously if not campbell who do u want? vince young? philip rivers? jay cutler? eli manning?

if u compare them to those guys campbells right with them.

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TD Riggo

TD Riggo

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Watch what you say around here, some of these fans seem to have a case of the "Ray Charles".

Speaking about anything less then sticking the kid in the HOF will bring out the mob.

I think you exaggerate too much! It is actually the opposite. The frustration that many of us have with many of these TC-bandwaggoneers is that after one stinkin' game, you guys already have commissioned a bust of Todd Collins!

Let's see how TC does the next three games before we give Jason a bus ticket out of town and send Todd to England for Knighthood! Let's see how he does against three good defenses who have actually prepared for HIM! Don't get me wrong .. I want us to win, but you guys are just ridiculous!

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Oldfan

Oldfan

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Well, wouldn't you think the same could be possible for Jason if given some reliable receivers outside of Cooley,a running game(which for the past few weeks has been non-existent) and a little protection??

Yes, it's obvious that Jason will get better with more experience even if this system doesn't fit his talents. But, I saw a huge difference in the offense that can't be adequately explained solely by the experience factor. No offense is so difficult to learn that there is that much difference between two years and nine years.

We're talking about football plays.

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Oldfan

Oldfan

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i think we need to give campbell a break

look at other QB's who are in their first few seasons

rivers, young, cutler, heck even eli manning in his 4th season struggles.

give campbell time to develop, thats y QB's in washington never pan out. We never give them a chance after 10 games we say they suck lets move on. Campbell has broke many franchise Records by coming in, most consecutive 2 td games as a rookie, the most passing yards in a game, almost broke brunells completion record against lions.

seriously if not campbell who do u want? vince young? philip rivers? jay cutler? eli manning?

if u compare them to those guys campbells right with them.

You didn't read the OP, did you?

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SearchHorizon

SearchHorizon

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I like to add that, watching TC perform, AS offense is really an awesome scheme. It seems to be designed to attack the defense at early stages of play development. This type of offense will shred most of NFL defenses -- it attacks the defense in transition. I don't know if there will ever be a defensive scheme that can defend against this type of offense.

Also, AS offense is quite unpredictable. This means that the offense is not giving the defense many tips about the play that will develop. Interestingly, this same lack of "signaling" also means when JC goes through his progressions, what he has to "see" is where the receiver and the defenders WILL BE, rather than where they ARE.

It seems that JC is not doing that. For example, if you watched Buffalo game, you will notice that JC was throwing BEHIND the receivers. If you look at TC against Chicago, he was throwing his ball at a location where the receiver was to going to be.

The downside of AS scheme seems to be that it takes a LONG time for a player (i.e., the quarterback) to really assimilate the offense.

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ALLWORLD

ALLWORLD

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Just talked to a buddy of mine, he is a HUGE Chef fan. (haha I love that commercial). He helped shed some light so this may or may not be of some help for some of us.

He mentioned how EXTREMELY complicated this offense is (Al's). He himself said they looked more like they were attacking like Al used to do back when he was with them. IHO more then all season long (from what he has seen).

My friend is big into football, got hurt when he was younger otherwise he would be playing today. He knows all about the X's and O's... More then most of us do. He, as a non-fan or a "neutral" set of eyes I am more inclined to hear what he would have to say as some.. No, most of you people here seem to just be blind homers or just trying to "call your shot".

JC has screwed a lot up. However, not until next season can we judge him entirely. That is something he mentioned, give him until the end of next season to decide....

So, take this as you want. That coming from someone who watched Al in action for years... It kind of makes me feel a little better about too, hopefully this is what will go down.

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Cyber Pimp

Cyber Pimp

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I don't wear burgundy glasses when I look at my football team. Before the Bears game, I had Jason Campbell's potential rated as a Grade B starter, good but not great. After the Bears game, I wondered if the Al Saunders passing game is a poor fit for Jason's talent

One football game is insufficient evidence to prove anything conclusively, but Todd Collins made Jason Campbell look very bad by comparison. They each played a half with the same teammates against the same defense, Jason took all the reps in practice, but Collins put up 224 passing yards and 24 points.

The Saunders scheme requires the QB to make quick reads, anticipate the receiver coming open, and deliver the ball on time and with accuracy. There's no doubt Jason will improve, but he's in his third year and has started 20 games; how much more improvement can we reasonably expect? Against the Bears, Todd Collins gave us a good idea of just how far Jason has to go to run Al's scheme successfully.

The NFL has become a passing league; the elite teams in the league all have outstanding passing games. So, we need to put Jason Campbell in the best possible scheme, the one which suits him best. Jeff Garcia has shown us in the past two seasons how much difference it can make when a QB is fitted to the right scheme.

The Bears game established doubt about Campbell's ability to run Al's offense at anything near its potential. So, unless Todd Collins and the Saunders offense light up the scoreboard with points in the final three games, I'd look for a new scheme in the offseason, one better suited to our young QBs strengths. We are heavily invested in Jason. We want to give him every chance to succeed.

Instead of changing the entire scheme. Why not get a qb that can run the offense. That makes more sense and its cheaper.

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shoefly72

shoefly72

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I think what Jason lacks is touch on his passes. Watching Collins, he never threw the bullet passes that it seems like Campbell is always throwing.

Whether his success is because that's how the plays are designed, or because the defense played differently without game film is another story.

I agree with this.

It seems like Campbell always guns his passes because he doesn't always release on time, while Collins (who doesn't really have a strong arm to begin with) delivers the ball on time and has more touch on his passes.

To be fair, there are plenty of times where JC releases before the receivers come out of their breaks, but in other instances he is often late in throwing once he recognizes an open receiver.

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Cyber Pimp

Cyber Pimp

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Or just have some patience let a young quarterback learn the complicated offense. We are already 1/2 way there.

The problem with JC is that he cannot get the timing down because he makes slow reads and he has a slow release. Leftwich has a slow release also and look at him now. A slow release in todays NFL isnt good. JC has had time to correct his flawed throwing motion and has yet to do so. How much longer will it take?

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SearchHorizon

SearchHorizon

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The problem with JC is that he cannot get the timing down because he makes slow reads and he has a slow release. Leftwich has a slow release also and look at him now. A slow release in todays NFL isnt good. JC has had time to correct his flawed throwing motion and has yet to do so. How much longer will it take?

It is probably not his throwing mechanics.

Rather, I think it is his reads and underestanding of the offense and defensive schemes. Only experience can improve that, I believe.

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