ramirez415 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 the more time an o line has to play together, the better they get. An o line of above average athletes who have played together for 3-5 years is going to be better than an o line made of the best of the best who haven't played a season together. I think that would be the drive to get the younger players in there. But then, the front office would also have to remember they need to keep them there. :applause: I agree just look at those Denver Broncos OL's . Outside of nalen no one else ever got any PUb. They just gelled together. We need to replace teh older guys, but not everyone all at once within two years. It should be a steady process. But defanately start at RT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimReefa Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 It's not just the passing game either. Look at what Betts was able to do behind an offensive line that dominated opponents at the end of last year. And Clinton Portis at the end of '05. Edgerrin James' last year in Indy, he led the League in rushing. And anybody with Joseph Addai on their fantasy team can tell you what a star he has become behind that same line. When the Redskins line has been healthy, they have been able to do some pretty amazing things on offense. But soon after a lineman gets on the wrong side of 30, he enters a part of his career where he has a hard time staying on the field. Jonathan Ogden, for instance, has played one full season since 2003, and he's 33. Jon Jansen and Randy Thomas are in that part of their careers. Samuels, Kandall, and Rabach are ticking time bombs. The Redskins need to be proactive about this, and at the same time build a unit that could one day have the chemistry and talent of the Hogs, or the current Pats and Colts lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimReefa Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 It's not just the passing game either. Look at what Betts was able to do behind an offensive line that dominated opponents at the end of last year. And Clinton Portis at the end of '05. Edgerrin James' last year in Indy, he led the League in rushing. And anybody with Joseph Addai on their fantasy team can tell you what a star he has become behind that same line. When the Redskins line has been healthy, they have been able to do some pretty amazing things on offense. But soon after a lineman gets on the wrong side of 30, he enters a part of his career where he has a hard time staying on the field. Jonathan Ogden, for instance, has played one full season since 2003, and he's 33. Jon Jansen and Randy Thomas are in that part of their careers. Samuels, Kandall, and Rabach are ticking time bombs. The Redskins need to be proactive about this, and at the same time build a unit that could one day have the chemistry and talent of the Hogs, or the current Pats and Colts lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoeRedskins Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 trading for production is what got the skins into this mess in the first place Once again, the Redskins never actually acquired people who were at the peak of production. There is a difference. One of the few that they did get was Marcus Washington. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoeRedskins Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 trading for production is what got the skins into this mess in the first place Once again, the Redskins never actually acquired people who were at the peak of production. There is a difference. One of the few that they did get was Marcus Washington. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I've actually been very critical of our OL depth for a couple of years now, but this year I thought they did a pretty good job of addressing it, apart from the Wade to G plan, which I never really agreed with. But, since adding Kendall, we had Wade, Fabini, Pucillo and Heyer as back-ups. That's pretty good. No, those guys aren't All-Pro players, but if they were, they wouldn't be back-ups. I actually would agree with getting rid of Jansen, but not Thomas. However, given thew cap ramifications of that, there's simply no way either of them could be gotten rid of right now (which is why I never liked the Jansen restructure). At this point, about the only thing you can/should do is to draft a good young G in the early rounds. Unless the teamis confident that Jansen is healthy and Heyer is ready to play, then maybe you trade Wade for a pick and bring in a young LT prospect. And, of course, you could try to sign a reserve C who is better than Pucillo. But big changes aren't going to happen. I'm not sure if I'm agreeing or disagreeing with you, but that's where I see us going next year. Or where we SHOULD go, anyway. One youngster, plus maybe one new vet back-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I've actually been very critical of our OL depth for a couple of years now, but this year I thought they did a pretty good job of addressing it, apart from the Wade to G plan, which I never really agreed with. But, since adding Kendall, we had Wade, Fabini, Pucillo and Heyer as back-ups. That's pretty good. No, those guys aren't All-Pro players, but if they were, they wouldn't be back-ups. I actually would agree with getting rid of Jansen, but not Thomas. However, given thew cap ramifications of that, there's simply no way either of them could be gotten rid of right now (which is why I never liked the Jansen restructure). At this point, about the only thing you can/should do is to draft a good young G in the early rounds. Unless the teamis confident that Jansen is healthy and Heyer is ready to play, then maybe you trade Wade for a pick and bring in a young LT prospect. And, of course, you could try to sign a reserve C who is better than Pucillo. But big changes aren't going to happen. I'm not sure if I'm agreeing or disagreeing with you, but that's where I see us going next year. Or where we SHOULD go, anyway. One youngster, plus maybe one new vet back-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corrupt3d Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 you know, we've got the O-line. Our starters are amazingly good and we coulda been doing wonders with them Only issue is we have no depth behind them. This was a great write-up and I agree with almost everything you said. I dont think that Jansen and Thomas need to be replaced as soon as next year, but its good to know that we have reliable people behind them when needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corrupt3d Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 you know, we've got the O-line. Our starters are amazingly good and we coulda been doing wonders with them Only issue is we have no depth behind them. This was a great write-up and I agree with almost everything you said. I dont think that Jansen and Thomas need to be replaced as soon as next year, but its good to know that we have reliable people behind them when needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OaktonSkins/BushFan Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Wow Reefa.... I'm shocked.... At no time did I hear "Fire Gibbs", "Trade Portis", "Hire Cower", or any other whiny @$$ excuses... Gee maybe, just maybe someone understands.... :applause: :notworthy The reason why you hear those chants - from me, at least - is in part due to the fact that Gibbs and GW have neglected the OL/DL, respectively. One would think that Gibbs - a run first, play action, run the clock down type, winning 3 SBs behind the Hogs - would place a premium on the OL. But no, we give B. Lloyd - a guy who loves to dog his own team in public on the Junkies radio show - $30M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OaktonSkins/BushFan Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Wow Reefa.... I'm shocked.... At no time did I hear "Fire Gibbs", "Trade Portis", "Hire Cower", or any other whiny @$$ excuses... Gee maybe, just maybe someone understands.... :applause: :notworthy The reason why you hear those chants - from me, at least - is in part due to the fact that Gibbs and GW have neglected the OL/DL, respectively. One would think that Gibbs - a run first, play action, run the clock down type, winning 3 SBs behind the Hogs - would place a premium on the OL. But no, we give B. Lloyd - a guy who loves to dog his own team in public on the Junkies radio show - $30M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooblakas Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 You do make a great point. In the offseason, the Redskins definitely need to work on the offensive line, which should be their first priority. Converting tackles to guards and vice versa ain't gonna cut it either. It is great that some offensive linemen can do that, but it does take some time to ease into a different position. It is not gonna happen overnight. Honestly, we do have some playmakers on the Redskins like Jason Campbell, Santana Moss, Antwaan Randle El, and Clinton Portis. It is just that the Redskins O-Line is suspect and somewhat inconsistent due to injuries. As a result, it limits what the Redskins can do to execute offensively, whether it would be in the running game or the passing game. Therefore, the Redskins have too many 3 and outs and Derrick Frost constantly punting the ball on 4th down. The Redskins need to draft some jumbo size offensive linemen who can help move the line of scrimmage downfield and have a lot of character and discipline in being " true Redskins ". I don't care which NFL draft round they come from, or if they are undrafted rookies. I am pretty confident that Joe Bugel can mold them into a cohesive unit like he did with the Hogs in the 1980s. They (the rookie offensive linemen) can also provide some offensive line depth assuming that they are still a work in progress. However, one way or another, there will come a time when that rookie offensive lineman (Guard, Tackle, or Center) will get inserted into the starting lineup because the current starter got injured. Another reason could be some veteran offensive lineman got waived because the coaches decided to go in a different direction with the offensive line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooblakas Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 You do make a great point. In the offseason, the Redskins definitely need to work on the offensive line, which should be their first priority. Converting tackles to guards and vice versa ain't gonna cut it either. It is great that some offensive linemen can do that, but it does take some time to ease into a different position. It is not gonna happen overnight. Honestly, we do have some playmakers on the Redskins like Jason Campbell, Santana Moss, Antwaan Randle El, and Clinton Portis. It is just that the Redskins O-Line is suspect and somewhat inconsistent due to injuries. As a result, it limits what the Redskins can do to execute offensively, whether it would be in the running game or the passing game. Therefore, the Redskins have too many 3 and outs and Derrick Frost constantly punting the ball on 4th down. The Redskins need to draft some jumbo size offensive linemen who can help move the line of scrimmage downfield and have a lot of character and discipline in being " true Redskins ". I don't care which NFL draft round they come from, or if they are undrafted rookies. I am pretty confident that Joe Bugel can mold them into a cohesive unit like he did with the Hogs in the 1980s. They (the rookie offensive linemen) can also provide some offensive line depth assuming that they are still a work in progress. However, one way or another, there will come a time when that rookie offensive lineman (Guard, Tackle, or Center) will get inserted into the starting lineup because the current starter got injured. Another reason could be some veteran offensive lineman got waived because the coaches decided to go in a different direction with the offensive line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkekoa Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I agree with your take on the offensive line but if we still had Jansen and Thomas we would be fine. Even if we had them, we need to start building the next wave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkekoa Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I agree with your take on the offensive line but if we still had Jansen and Thomas we would be fine. Even if we had them, we need to start building the next wave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimReefa Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 Once again, the Redskins never actually acquired people who were at the peak of production. There is a difference. One of the few that they did get was Marcus Washington. And Randy Thomas. And Laverneous Coles. Chad Morton, Santana Moss, Clinton Portis, Shawn Springs, Brandon Lloyd, Antwan Randle El. Some of them paid off. Others did not. Looking at that list, I'd say the Skins have actually done a pretty good job of acquiring veteran talent and making it stick over the last 2-3 seasons. And how close to a championship team has that gotten us? 52-7, that's how close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimReefa Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 Once again, the Redskins never actually acquired people who were at the peak of production. There is a difference. One of the few that they did get was Marcus Washington. And Randy Thomas. And Laverneous Coles. Chad Morton, Santana Moss, Clinton Portis, Shawn Springs, Brandon Lloyd, Antwan Randle El. Some of them paid off. Others did not. Looking at that list, I'd say the Skins have actually done a pretty good job of acquiring veteran talent and making it stick over the last 2-3 seasons. And how close to a championship team has that gotten us? 52-7, that's how close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phishisthegreatstuff Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I think DE is still our biggest need. Brady wouldn't have had all day if we had a stud DE from the draft. Next we need a tall WR like Fitzgerald. And then we can spend the rest of our picks on OL. The only way I see us drafting OL first is if we cut one of our starters like jansen or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phishisthegreatstuff Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I think DE is still our biggest need. Brady wouldn't have had all day if we had a stud DE from the draft. Next we need a tall WR like Fitzgerald. And then we can spend the rest of our picks on OL. The only way I see us drafting OL first is if we cut one of our starters like jansen or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbowman Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 We need o-line more than we do the big receiver. Cooley and Sellers can provide big enough targets for a year or two while we get the o-line straightened out, especially if they don't need to stay in and block. Actually add Yoder to the list, didn't he have to catches against the Pats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbowman Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 We need o-line more than we do the big receiver. Cooley and Sellers can provide big enough targets for a year or two while we get the o-line straightened out, especially if they don't need to stay in and block. Actually add Yoder to the list, didn't he have to catches against the Pats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Nice idea, but we haven't paid attention to the lines in years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Nice idea, but we haven't paid attention to the lines in years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwsleep Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I'm not sure these guys are done yet, and with Thomas, I think he'll go on for a while. The injury may help him by minimizing wear and tear. Jansen looked slower when the year began. BUt Samuels is creatinly not done, nor is Rabach. We need a RT, and an LG first, and we need to draft young promising guys, in the 3, 4, 5 round. That's where our lack of picks has really killed us. Imagine a couple of young lineman for Buges to groom? Instead, we've had no picks, or bigger needs. Tough. (Pity about Dock, but no way we could match that crazy Buffalo offer.) But remember: the 88 and 91 SB Hogs were not young. But they were together for a long time. And it showed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwsleep Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I'm not sure these guys are done yet, and with Thomas, I think he'll go on for a while. The injury may help him by minimizing wear and tear. Jansen looked slower when the year began. BUt Samuels is creatinly not done, nor is Rabach. We need a RT, and an LG first, and we need to draft young promising guys, in the 3, 4, 5 round. That's where our lack of picks has really killed us. Imagine a couple of young lineman for Buges to groom? Instead, we've had no picks, or bigger needs. Tough. (Pity about Dock, but no way we could match that crazy Buffalo offer.) But remember: the 88 and 91 SB Hogs were not young. But they were together for a long time. And it showed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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