Rebuilding the Redskins: Step 1 - the OL

[doom44]

I agree 100%....But there is another related issue. We have all this offensive coaching experience yet we cannot seem to devise plays that take the heat off of that right side of the line. I am talking 3 step drops...Planned roll outs...Where the hell is our RB safety valve slipping behind Linebackers. There are things they can do besides WR screens that everybody and their brother can jump on.

We beef up the oline and suddenly our recievers look awesome...our running game comes back...JC makes the pro bowl.....The sun shines once more

[doom44]

I agree 100%....But there is another related issue. We have all this offensive coaching experience yet we cannot seem to devise plays that take the heat off of that right side of the line. I am talking 3 step drops...Planned roll outs...Where the hell is our RB safety valve slipping behind Linebackers. There are things they can do besides WR screens that everybody and their brother can jump on.

We beef up the oline and suddenly our recievers look awesome...our running game comes back...JC makes the pro bowl.....The sun shines once more

[MoeRedskins]

And Randy Thomas. And Laverneous Coles. Chad Morton, Santana Moss, Clinton Portis, Shawn Springs, Brandon Lloyd, Antwan Randle El.

Some of them paid off. Others did not. Looking at that list, I'd say the Skins have actually done a pretty good job of acquiring veteran talent and making it stick over the last 2-3 seasons.

And how close to a championship team has that gotten us?

52-7, that's how close.

Randy Thomas working out I think

Coles was good, but got in a spat with management and got sent out the door

Morton was a monsterous bust, but who pays a specails game that much money anyway?

Portis is good IMO, that worked out, but you still don't trade a lock down corner for a RB.

Springs was no where near the peak of his production when signed and is currently our best CB

Lloyd never produced, just had potential, so he is in your camp.

[MoeRedskins]

And Randy Thomas. And Laverneous Coles. Chad Morton, Santana Moss, Clinton Portis, Shawn Springs, Brandon Lloyd, Antwan Randle El.

Some of them paid off. Others did not. Looking at that list, I'd say the Skins have actually done a pretty good job of acquiring veteran talent and making it stick over the last 2-3 seasons.

And how close to a championship team has that gotten us?

52-7, that's how close.

Randy Thomas working out I think

Coles was good, but got in a spat with management and got sent out the door

Morton was a monsterous bust, but who pays a specails game that much money anyway?

Portis is good IMO, that worked out, but you still don't trade a lock down corner for a RB.

Springs was no where near the peak of his production when signed and is currently our best CB

Lloyd never produced, just had potential, so he is in your camp.

[Ghost of]

I actually kind of disagree. The reason I was skeptical about our season after Thomas got hurt is because it is so rare to have an entire side of your line get hurt like that. Dinged? yes. But out for a season (or nearly the whole season?) No.

Fabini looks weak and Wade isn't doing so hot but he HAS in the past done OK. Heyer looks like a very good pickup. Pucillo is serviceable.

I think they DID try to address depth. But you can always use more.

But one thing---New England hasn't always had a good line. In fact, I'd say the TALENT on their lines, even during their first two SB wins was mediocre. Hell, Damien Woody was probably the best lineman they've had in 10 years (though he fell off just before leaving in FA.) Matt Light is a good player but even he needed work.

What kept their passing game afloat was using the spread formation that Brady worked so well at Michigan and his pocket awareness. It's been shown time and again that with a good sense in the pocket, you can make it seem as if you have time due to your o-line when really it's due to your movement and sidestep of the rush.

True, their line is better now.

Anyways, I think the team DID try to address line depth and I think we are better off focusing on defensive line (ends) if we had to strengthen one of the lines first.

[Ghost of]

I actually kind of disagree. The reason I was skeptical about our season after Thomas got hurt is because it is so rare to have an entire side of your line get hurt like that. Dinged? yes. But out for a season (or nearly the whole season?) No.

Fabini looks weak and Wade isn't doing so hot but he HAS in the past done OK. Heyer looks like a very good pickup. Pucillo is serviceable.

I think they DID try to address depth. But you can always use more.

But one thing---New England hasn't always had a good line. In fact, I'd say the TALENT on their lines, even during their first two SB wins was mediocre. Hell, Damien Woody was probably the best lineman they've had in 10 years (though he fell off just before leaving in FA.) Matt Light is a good player but even he needed work.

What kept their passing game afloat was using the spread formation that Brady worked so well at Michigan and his pocket awareness. It's been shown time and again that with a good sense in the pocket, you can make it seem as if you have time due to your o-line when really it's due to your movement and sidestep of the rush.

True, their line is better now.

Anyways, I think the team DID try to address line depth and I think we are better off focusing on defensive line (ends) if we had to strengthen one of the lines first.

[Gswami]

Hopefully the team will start realizing that getting younger at multiple positions is key. I don't see whole sale changes and a totally new line in 2009 but I can at least see two to three new players. Heyer, with good coaching, is likely to be one of them. I think next year's draft should be heavy on the lines (DL and OL) and with a cb, tall wr mixed in.

I've actually been very critical of our OL depth for a couple of years now, but this year I thought they did a pretty good job of addressing it, apart from the Wade to G plan, which I never really agreed with. But, since adding Kendall, we had Wade, Fabini, Pucillo and Heyer as back-ups. That's pretty good. No, those guys aren't All-Pro players, but if they were, they wouldn't be back-ups.

I actually would agree with getting rid of Jansen, but not Thomas. However, given thew cap ramifications of that, there's simply no way either of them could be gotten rid of right now (which is why I never liked the Jansen restructure).

At this point, about the only thing you can/should do is to draft a good young G in the early rounds. Unless the teamis confident that Jansen is healthy and Heyer is ready to play, then maybe you trade Wade for a pick and bring in a young LT prospect. And, of course, you could try to sign a reserve C who is better than Pucillo.

But big changes aren't going to happen. I'm not sure if I'm agreeing or disagreeing with you, but that's where I see us going next year. Or where we SHOULD go, anyway. One youngster, plus maybe one new vet back-up.

[Gswami]

Hopefully the team will start realizing that getting younger at multiple positions is key. I don't see whole sale changes and a totally new line in 2009 but I can at least see two to three new players. Heyer, with good coaching, is likely to be one of them. I think next year's draft should be heavy on the lines (DL and OL) and with a cb, tall wr mixed in.

I've actually been very critical of our OL depth for a couple of years now, but this year I thought they did a pretty good job of addressing it, apart from the Wade to G plan, which I never really agreed with. But, since adding Kendall, we had Wade, Fabini, Pucillo and Heyer as back-ups. That's pretty good. No, those guys aren't All-Pro players, but if they were, they wouldn't be back-ups.

I actually would agree with getting rid of Jansen, but not Thomas. However, given thew cap ramifications of that, there's simply no way either of them could be gotten rid of right now (which is why I never liked the Jansen restructure).

At this point, about the only thing you can/should do is to draft a good young G in the early rounds. Unless the teamis confident that Jansen is healthy and Heyer is ready to play, then maybe you trade Wade for a pick and bring in a young LT prospect. And, of course, you could try to sign a reserve C who is better than Pucillo.

But big changes aren't going to happen. I'm not sure if I'm agreeing or disagreeing with you, but that's where I see us going next year. Or where we SHOULD go, anyway. One youngster, plus maybe one new vet back-up.

[SonnyJ]

It is no coincidence - NO coincidence - that the two best QBs in football are protected by the two best offensive lines in football.

The problem is that you have this reversed. It is no coincidence - NONE - that these lines are considered good because they play in front of the two best QBs in the game.

Brady almost always goes to his first read, as does Manning. The difference between these guys and all other QBs is that they've figured out the CORRECT first read well BEFORE the ball is snapped. They rarely go to their second reads because they have the ability to "see around the corner". Whereas most QBs are deciphering the defense and going through all those decisions while dropping back and setting up, Brady and Manning have already done that. They're just setting up the defense at that point. The ball is out of their hands so quickly that there really isn't much of a chance for a pass rush to get to them.

Campbell was fumbling because he was holding on to the ball past when he should have gotten rid of it. That's the difference between the Skins OL and the so-called best OLs in the game. Those guys are subject to the same pressure and lapses in protection, but their guy has gotten rid of the ball, whereas the Skins (and other) QBs are still holding onto it. You never notice their breakdowns. The few times Brady held the ball, the Skins were actually getting pretty close to him, if not knocking him down. But it rarely happens that Brady (or Manning) holds the ball. Keep everything else the same, just put Brady or Manning behind the Skins OL, and those fumbles NEVER happen. You don't even think about the possibility.

There are cases where the OL makes the QB better than he really is. Rypien in '91, for instance. But the exact opposite is true for Brady and Manning - they make their OLs look better than they really are. Those two are so quick and decisive with their reads that they rarely get pressured. The other side of that is that they actually discourage teams from bringing pressure, because if they do and it's not successful, there is a VERY good chance that those two will put up six on the other team. Not to mention that they'll audible to plays and line protections that will work better against the defense that they've probably properly diagnosed. And also don't forget the uncanny feel that they possess, able to sense the rush and slide around in the pocket accordingly.

It is NO COINCIDENCE that these guys have never missed a game to injury in their careers. If it were to happen, it would probably be due to some fluky non-contact thing, because they just don't take many hits. Because they don't HOLD the ball. And they know how to avoid pressure.

The Skins OL, even in its currently substantially diminished state, would still look solid blocking for these two. As Campbell grows and develops (hopefully), you will see a perceived dramatic improvement in OL play, even if the reality is that there really isn't any. The Redskins have good players along the OL. Yes, they could use some up-and-comers, but there is only so many linemen a team can have. The Eagles, a team lauded for its use of draft picks on linemen, stuck in one of those highly-touted picks to fill in for one of their injured starters and the guy got roasted at almost a historic level.

At the end of last season, the Skins OL was considered to be the strength of the team. They lost probably their least important guy in Dockery and replaced him with a solid vet. No one could have foreseen the quick and sudden rash of crippling injuries that befell this unit. No team has the depth to compensate for it. If the OL personnel (healthy) is the biggest problem the Skins have, they're doing alright.

[SonnyJ]

It is no coincidence - NO coincidence - that the two best QBs in football are protected by the two best offensive lines in football.

The problem is that you have this reversed. It is no coincidence - NONE - that these lines are considered good because they play in front of the two best QBs in the game.

Brady almost always goes to his first read, as does Manning. The difference between these guys and all other QBs is that they've figured out the CORRECT first read well BEFORE the ball is snapped. They rarely go to their second reads because they have the ability to "see around the corner". Whereas most QBs are deciphering the defense and going through all those decisions while dropping back and setting up, Brady and Manning have already done that. They're just setting up the defense at that point. The ball is out of their hands so quickly that there really isn't much of a chance for a pass rush to get to them.

Campbell was fumbling because he was holding on to the ball past when he should have gotten rid of it. That's the difference between the Skins OL and the so-called best OLs in the game. Those guys are subject to the same pressure and lapses in protection, but their guy has gotten rid of the ball, whereas the Skins (and other) QBs are still holding onto it. You never notice their breakdowns. The few times Brady held the ball, the Skins were actually getting pretty close to him, if not knocking him down. But it rarely happens that Brady (or Manning) holds the ball. Keep everything else the same, just put Brady or Manning behind the Skins OL, and those fumbles NEVER happen. You don't even think about the possibility.

There are cases where the OL makes the QB better than he really is. Rypien in '91, for instance. But the exact opposite is true for Brady and Manning - they make their OLs look better than they really are. Those two are so quick and decisive with their reads that they rarely get pressured. The other side of that is that they actually discourage teams from bringing pressure, because if they do and it's not successful, there is a VERY good chance that those two will put up six on the other team. Not to mention that they'll audible to plays and line protections that will work better against the defense that they've probably properly diagnosed. And also don't forget the uncanny feel that they possess, able to sense the rush and slide around in the pocket accordingly.

It is NO COINCIDENCE that these guys have never missed a game to injury in their careers. If it were to happen, it would probably be due to some fluky non-contact thing, because they just don't take many hits. Because they don't HOLD the ball. And they know how to avoid pressure.

The Skins OL, even in its currently substantially diminished state, would still look solid blocking for these two. As Campbell grows and develops (hopefully), you will see a perceived dramatic improvement in OL play, even if the reality is that there really isn't any. The Redskins have good players along the OL. Yes, they could use some up-and-comers, but there is only so many linemen a team can have. The Eagles, a team lauded for its use of draft picks on linemen, stuck in one of those highly-touted picks to fill in for one of their injured starters and the guy got roasted at almost a historic level.

At the end of last season, the Skins OL was considered to be the strength of the team. They lost probably their least important guy in Dockery and replaced him with a solid vet. No one could have foreseen the quick and sudden rash of crippling injuries that befell this unit. No team has the depth to compensate for it. If the OL personnel (healthy) is the biggest problem the Skins have, they're doing alright.

[heelsluva66]

heres a thought

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7343980

[heelsluva66]

heres a thought

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7343980

[Diver]

Great post, I am with you the development of younger linemen, but I still think that if our line was healthy as it was in game 1 we are one of the best lines in all of football...it has showed during the BRIEF stretches where everyone is healthy that they can produce with the top running teams in the league and without the running game a Joe Gibbs style offense is basically useless.

[Diver]

Great post, I am with you the development of younger linemen, but I still think that if our line was healthy as it was in game 1 we are one of the best lines in all of football...it has showed during the BRIEF stretches where everyone is healthy that they can produce with the top running teams in the league and without the running game a Joe Gibbs style offense is basically useless.

[RalphZero]

Hire a GM!

[RalphZero]

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