The difference between racism and hate

[GrimReefa]

Ok, so McNabb is once again at the center of a race controversy. This time, he's the one talking about how black QBs are perceived, and his comments are the exact opposite of Limbaugh's. Limbaugh said black QBs tend be overrated by the media, who want them to succeed, McNabb said that black QBs are scruitinized at a higher level because of their race.

Who is right? McNabb? Rush? Neither?

The suprising answer is both - kind of. I'm willing to concede to Rush that most educated people who are tired of the lame stereotypes would like to see a black QB succeed. And sports media, people who hang around all the time covering and talking to African-Americans, knowing how ridiculous these stereotypes are, would be even more disposed to wanting to see a black QB do well. But to suggest that Donovan McNabb has been given some kind of free pass because of this is ridiculous. To wit...

Donovan McNabb has a career completion percentage of 58.1, his career YPA is 6.7, his career TD:INT ratio is 2.10 (!!!), and his career passer efficiency rating is 84.8. Those are Hall of Fame numbers, especially that ridiculous TD:INT ratio - higher than Peyton Manning's! To say he is in any way a mediocre QB is completely laughable. That's to say nothing of all the division titles, NFC Championship appearances, and the Super Bowl appearance to which he led the team.

And yet, he has been given nothing but grief from the moment he was drafted.

A similar conversation to this has started over the "Rooney Rule". The rule was put into place because the League felt that blacks were not given a fair shot to coach in the League. Critics said that owners care about winning, not race. They are saying the same thing about McNabb's comments now.

And it's true. Fans owners and media, in this day and age, generally don't hate black people - certainly not to the point where they would want the team to jeopardize their chances for success by refusing to accept a black coach or QB.

The problem is, though, that there is more to racism than hate.

You don't have to hate black people - or any people - to be racist. If the color of a man's skin in any way effects your appraisal of how well he can do a job, that's racism, pure and simple. It might not even be a concious thought.

Look at Jason Campbell. Here is a guy who showed all of the qualities at Auburn that he is showing now. How can you look objectively at the things he accomplished there and not see a top 5 draft pick? Even the folks at Pro Football Prospectus, who railed against the Redskins decision to move up and get him, after they ran the numbers had to admit that he was the real deal. Yet he was picked at around 25 - and many thought, before the Redskins publicly moved up in order to get him, that he would fall even further - into the 2nd round, even. He wasn't a runner like McNabb or Vick or VY, and so teams didn't have the confidence in his abilities to draft him.

This kind of racism is harder for people to see in themselves because, as I said, it isn't necessarily conscious. But it is there, in a lot of people - myself included. But hopefully as the Jason Campbell's and Tony Dungee's of the world move into leadership positions and succeed, that racism will disappear, even at the subconcious level.

[tizzod]

But to suggest that Donovan McNabb has been given some kind of free pass because of this is ridiculous.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, for spelling ridiculous correctly. Finally, someone can do it!

(And maybe this could have gone in the other thread)

I think people are waaaaaay too hypersensitive about racism. Yes, I'm white. I understand I didn't grow up in the black community so I can't possibly know what you go through, but I think that's just an excuse. Evil racists that are dedicated to "keeping blacks down" or whatever, are such a vast minority anymore that just don't believe it's anywhere near the issue people still make it out to be.

If you keep your nose to the grindstone, work hard, and take advantage of the opportunities you have (and yes, Virginia, there are opportunities. Lots of them), you should be able to succeed quite well in this country.

I just think it's an excuse for the most part. But what do I know.

[Leonard Washington]

Donovan McNabb has a career completion percentage of 58.1, his career YPA is 6.7, his career TD:INT ratio is 2.10 (!!!), and his career passer efficiency rating is 84.8. Those are Hall of Fame numbers, especially that ridiculous TD:INT ratio - higher than Peyton Manning's! To say he is in any way a mediocre QB is completely laughable. That's to say nothing of all the division titles, NFC Championship appearances, and the Super Bowl appearance to which he led the team.

And yet, he has been given nothing but grief from the moment he was drafted.

boy do i agree with you!

I think racism is in between dislike and hatred.

I think the OJ situation is beyond racism. People hate the guy. Why get so upset about OJ? Really WTF did he do to you? WTF is up with the wrongful death case? People really love to hang their hat on that BS. You have people LIKE Robert Blake. Yea he wasn't the first or the worst. No one seems to get upset at all about him.

Why do people who get instantly irate or employ inane arguments to prove that racism doesn't exist or say white people have it worse? I never seen a black person go ballistic if someone mentions slavery or the movie Roots...well unless you tell them it didn't happen or they should "get over it".

Vick...yea he killed dogs. DOGS...not people...DOGS. its cool to be upset about dogs. why get so irate? i don't get it. It seems like repressed feelings to me.

[Bang]

I think McNabb's problems come more from where he plays than what color he is.

As pointed out, he has excellent numbers. And besides that, he's a genuinely likable guy. He has a great smile, good demeanor, he's smart, well spoken, and has a great sense of humor.

But in Philly, it just doesn't matter. Win the big one. That's what they want. They're like 40 yr old virgins up there.. they know what it is,, they've seen it in videos and magazines,,, but they can't get it.

If he played in a lot of other cities, he wouldn't be ridden as hard as he is. But because he's in Philadelphia, he going to take quite a bit of verbal abuse. (and as Charles Barkley pointed out, so has every other star who plays in Philly. Nature of the beast up there.)

I'm sure he's heard racial slurs, and mostly i'd chalk that up to people saying something hurtful because they think it will get to him. I don't know for SURE, of course, but most of the people who are yelling over him and criticizing him up there couldn't care less what color he is.

Through my cartoons and podcasts I do get a lot of mail and talk to a lot of NFL fans from everywhere, AND it just so happens that because the Eagles have been a frequent target of mine, I do have a large following up there. And they DO write me their thoughts.. ask me to ake fun of this, or make fun of that, or call me a name for making fun of this or that.

and I have never once fielded a racist comment about McNabb. And believe you me, people are not at ALL shy about writing me what they think. I've gotten quite a few emails I couldn't read out loud, and occasionally I do get the over-the-top hate,, but I've never gotten that directed towards McNabb.

I know I'm just a minor small barometer, but that has been my experience.

~Bang

[SUNSTONE]

A lot of what's called racism is really insecurity that comes out in the form of hate.

[thedoc4454]

Before one can honestly comment on racism in America today I think it’s important to first establish your bona fids, and while I am white there are other factors that lead me to believe that I am qualified to comment on the subject:

1. I have never seen a Danzil Washington movie I didn’t think he was terrific in.

2. My Wife may be of African American desent – While on paper she is 100% Italian, 8 or 9 generations ago an enterprising Eygptian may have slipped into her families villa. The rest, as they say, is history.

3. I would, at the drop of a hat, nail Halle Barry, Vanessa Williams and or Kerry Washington in the front window of Macy’s the day after Thanksgiving – and damn the consequenses!

4. While playing cards at my house, over the years, many of the guests appeared to have been black! To be fair most of them claimed to be from the Carribbian, but they insisted they were black anyway.

Now that it’s been established that I’m something of an expert on race relations let me start with McNabb. His problems don’t have as much to do with his color as they do with what city he was unfortunate enough to be drafted by. Strangly enough, I believe, if he’d been drafted by one of the southern teams he would have been treated far better.

[StillUnknown]

Before one can honestly comment on racism in America today I think it’s important to first establish your bona fids, and while I am white there are other factors that lead me to believe that I am qualified to comment on the subject:

1. I have never seen a Danzil Washington movie I didn’t think he was terrific in.

2. My Wife may be of African American desent – While on paper she is 100% Italian, 8 or 9 generations ago an enterprising Eygptian may have slipped into her families villa. The rest, as they say, is history.

3. I would, at the drop of a hat, nail Halle Barry, Vanessa Williams and or Kerry Washington in the front window of Macy’s the day after Thanksgiving – and damn the consequenses!

4. While playing cards at my house, over the years, many of the guests appeared to have been black! To be fair most of them claimed to be from the Carribbian, but they insisted they were black anyway.

Now that it’s been established that I’m something of an expert on race relations let me start with McNabb. His problems don’t have as much to do with his color as they do with what city he was unfortunate enough to be drafted by. Strangly enough, I believe, if he’d been drafted by one of the southern teams he would have been treated far better.

thats all it takes to be an expert on race relations? :laugh:

[Thanos]

We dont know what McNabb has personally has gone through. Also I remember Doug Williams being called everything while playing at RFK. Once upon a time the Skins were the team of the South and stands wereoutrightKlan rallies back in the day.

Sure Philly is full of racist Italians/Irish blue (and not so blue) collar clowns but to make it seem like McNabb is paranoidis not a solid argument.

[Cdowwe]

Now that it’s been established that I’m something of an expert on race relations let me start with McNabb.

I havent seen your posts much so I dont know your sarcasm, but please tell me you were joking

[USS Redskins]

McNabb is a crybaby.... Philly is his problem - they hate everyone!

Rush was right in a sense - early on McNabb was a good not great QB but the media was all over his ass trying to annoint him the next coming. McNabb got better after Rush's comments, though.

My only prejudice is that he is an Eagle. That automatically makes him a jerk, along with Giants and Cowboys.

For the record, I hate Peyton Manning too... anyone the media crams down your throat I automatically take a dislike to. He is a great QB but he would sell his mother for the right amount of cash.

[Enter Apotheosis]

thats all it takes to be an expert on race relations? :laugh:

I was awarded an honorary doctoral degree from Harvard because I was able to scientifically prove that I was friends with multiple black people.

Look at Jason Campbell. Here is a guy who showed all of the qualities at Auburn that he is showing now. How can you look objectively at the things he accomplished there and not see a top 5 draft pick? Even the folks at Pro Football Prospectus, who railed against the Redskins decision to move up and get him, after they ran the numbers had to admit that he was the real deal. Yet he was picked at around 25 - and many thought, before the Redskins publicly moved up in order to get him, that he would fall even further - into the 2nd round, even. He wasn't a runner like McNabb or Vick or VY, and so teams didn't have the confidence in his abilities to draft him.

Poor example. You can't normally expect more than three QBs to be drafted in the first round and it is usually pretty rare for all of the highly rated QBs to go in the top 10. Aaron Rodgers and Alex Smith had slightly less questions surrounding their ability (did Campbell look so good because of that strong Auburn running game? have frequent coaching changes stunted his development?) and looked to be safer picks with more immediate upside at the time.

Smith got the #1 overall bid... but then Rodgers slipped all the way to Green Bay at #22 and Campbell went three picks later. Clearly there was not a high demand for QBs that draft and you can't really make the case that Campbell was severely underrated based on where he ended up.

[mel25]

i agree that there is a big difference between racism and hate. just about everybody has feelins (good or bad) towards another race. some of them have developed through experience, and some through ignorance. when i went away to college i met some white people who hadn't had much interaction with black people, and they sometimes asked questions that may seem simple to me and most black people, but they honestly didn't know the answer to. for example, it's funny how fascinated people were with my hair. things like that are harmless though, some thoughts were more negative, however they changed after gettin to know me. and it wasn't all white people, i remember havin a conversation with an asian guy who thought black people used the word "mutha(you know what)" a lot. and to be completely fair, there were plenty of black people, that didn't have much interaction with other races and cultures, that were completely clueless too. anyway, the point i'm tryin to make is that racial feelings can be harmless if people are willing to explain, and others are willing to be open minded and change their views once proven otherwise. it's sick to just hate another race. i can't understand how anybody would want to harm, or oppress any one based on skin color.

as far as mcnabb, i agree that it's mostly the philly fans that have had the most influence on his point of view, and not necessarily a reflection of the league. and i do feel that he would have a different tune had he played here. but too late for that, we got JC now. HTTR