Redskins Summer Plans

[Xempt]

I did a long thread before FA on the cap and possible moves (most of which came to pass). So I thought I would throw out what I think could happen this summer with the cap and possible moves.

Needs = Vet off Guard (maybe), DE, and now a WR.

Cap = currently 5.1 mil under and we will get a 2.2 mil cap credit on June 1st from David Pattens release for a total of 7.3 mil under the cap.

Moves that probably will happen.

-Cut/Retire Collins. - Saves 1.250 mil off the cap

-Replace him with Bramlet/Palmer/ or the UDFA, whoever is the best or shows the most promise. Time for the 3rd QB to be a development slot again.

-If we find a new DE, I can see Daniels or wynn going. More likely Daniels as wynn is more versatile and he did just redo his contract and he is in his last year. Saves 1.9 mil if Daniels goes

So we could be 10.4 mil under the cap if those two moves are made.

Now we need to

-sign Landry. Expect around a 2 mil cap hit for that.

-Resign/ extend Cooley, expect no more then 2 mil for him this year.

-Sign a DE, expect no more then 3 mil for that this year.

-Find another WR, expect no more then 2 mil for that. KJ come on down. Coach Joe he is exactly what this offense needs.

-Bramlet as my favorite to replace collins. Not sure of his cap number.

So on the high side we could resonably expect to spend 9 mil and still have a injury pool of 1.4 mil.

We could do this move also (would be a fan favorite). Thanks for the info PCinOZ.

If we make Brunell a post June 1 cut, we save just over $2.0m in 2007. He will count $3.113m in dead cap next year but considering his cap hit next year is in excess of $6.5m we would save around $3.4m in 2008.

So cutting MB would save us another 2 mil and we could sign Tim Rattay as our vet backup (hey he can still throw the ball) for about a mil. Saving another mil on the cap to give us

a injury pool of around 2 mil.

Summer is done and lets play some football.

WR is not a need, nor do i see guard as a need this year but maybe next year. No way we cut collins and brunell, we need a vet backup this year behind campbell, and no telling how brunell will recover from his shoulder injury.

Daniels and Wynn arent going anywhere, i say we let Wynn walk next year after his deal expires and i think daniels may be a cap cut next year.

Not only do we need to sign landry, we need to sign our other rookies, we have a 3.2 million pool to do that with.

Apparently Cooley and the skins are talking extension from what Gibbs said at the draft day party. i agree its a deal that needs to get done.

Once again, no more WRs especially expensive ones. id rather give espy a shot at our only opening in the WR group than sign KJ, atleast espy can contribute on special teams.

And technically, Brunell wouldnt have a cap hit next year, considering his last restructure voids the last 3 years of his contract after 2007. Best bet is to keep him this year and let him walk next year with no dead cap charges. and absolutely NO Tim Rattay...

to be honest, many of this is poor thought by you. ideas are no good if you dont put thought into them before blurbing them all over the place. the only thing i really agree with is extending cooley and needing a defensive end.

[Skin Patrol]

Landry will cost the team more than 2M this year, I'm not sure where you got this figure from.

Last year's 6th and 7th picks (Vernon Davis and Safety Michael Huff) both got 15M signing bonuses on 5 year contracts. Since the salary cap increases by about 6% (and agents know this) expect players to cost more both in total contracts and guaranteed payments in 2007 than they did in 2006. That means a reasonable minimum that Landry could sign for with us is a 15M signing bonus. Prorated over the length of a 7 year contract (which his agent won't let him sign) is still over 2M per year. More than likely he will sign a 5 year contract with 16-17M in signing bonuses. None of this factors in his base salary which, at a minimum, would be over 300K.

Definitely more than 2M, perhaps as high as 3.3M.

[greenhunter7]

just curious if some how Cooley did not get an extension and hit the free agent market how likely is it that he would sign with another team. from everything that I gather he loves being a Redskin.

[redskinsfan1201]

I like your ideas except you didnt mention anything about extending Sean Taylor

[Horatio]

I don't know about the Redskins' summer plans, but I'm pretty sure their winter plans involve sitting around and watching everyone else in the playoffs.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :doh:

[D-Day]

WR is not a need, nor do i see guard as a need this year but maybe next year. No way we cut collins and brunell, we need a vet backup this year behind campbell, and no telling how brunell will recover from his shoulder injury.

Daniels and Wynn arent going anywhere, i say we let Wynn walk next year after his deal expires and i think daniels may be a cap cut next year.

Not only do we need to sign landry, we need to sign our other rookies, we have a 3.2 million pool to do that with.

Apparently Cooley and the skins are talking extension from what Gibbs said at the draft day party. i agree its a deal that needs to get done.

Once again, no more WRs especially expensive ones. id rather give espy a shot at our only opening in the WR group than sign KJ, atleast espy can contribute on special teams.

And technically, Brunell wouldnt have a cap hit next year, considering his last restructure voids the last 3 years of his contract after 2007. Best bet is to keep him this year and let him walk next year with no dead cap charges. and absolutely NO Tim Rattay...

to be honest, many of this is poor thought by you. ideas are no good if you dont put thought into them before blurbing them all over the place. the only thing i really agree with is extending cooley and needing a defensive end.

Once again why don't people read before blurting out responses.

1. I said MB would be a fan favorite but it was not in the initial 10.4 mil cap space we could have.

2. I said Daniels or wynn would probably be cut if we find a new DE

3. You can also void the last 3 years but you still have the cap charge of 5 mil next year which is what I said. All contracts are voidable every year, but you still have to account for the paid bonus money and any future guaranteed money. If he leaves next year we will get a cap credit as his charge is about 2 mil more then the dead cap hit.

4. You will have to sign the rest of the rookies but they will be min salary or close too it. They will take the place of others on the 53 or 51 man roster so they are accounted for.

Reading comprehension before spitting out negativity and criticizing others is also appreciated.

[D-Day]

Landry will cost the team more than 2M this year, I'm not sure where you got this figure from.

Last year's 6th and 7th picks (Vernon Davis and Safety Michael Huff) both got 15M signing bonuses on 5 year contracts. Since the salary cap increases by about 6% (and agents know this) expect players to cost more both in total contracts and guaranteed payments in 2007 than they did in 2006. That means a reasonable minimum that Landry could sign for with us is a 15M signing bonus. Prorated over the length of a 7 year contract (which his agent won't let him sign) is still over 2M per year. More than likely he will sign a 5 year contract with 16-17M in signing bonuses. None of this factors in his base salary which, at a minimum, would be over 300K.

Definitely more than 2M, perhaps as high as 3.3M.

quesstimation. Just because they are given 15 mil in quaranted doesn't necessarily mean they get 3 mil charge the first year. For instance they could get like for example 8 mil SB, 4 mil Option bonus in year two, and a 3 mil bonus in year 4. I am not sure of the max years, ST signed for 7 years so who knows what the contract will be.

[RedskinsNation]

D-Day...

Now we have a new problema/question...

How will this Sean Taylor no showing for OTA's (per the Post he is unhappy with his contract) play out.

Personally I think he will suck it up and this offseason we will take care of him because he will be entering the last year of his deal.

[Skin Patrol]

quesstimation. Just because they are given 15 mil in quaranted doesn't necessarily mean they get 3 mil charge the first year. For instance they could get like for example 8 mil SB, 4 mil Option bonus in year two, and a 3 mil bonus in year 4. I am not sure of the max years, ST signed for 7 years so who knows what the contract will be.

Per the new CBA, all signing bonuses are prorated over 5 years no matter what. Even if they sign a 7 year deal (Taylor signed a 7-year deal, but the last year voids anyways, it is prorated over 6) it won't be prorated over that length.

You're right that they can funny-money the deal so that it pays out more in year 2 and year 3, the question is whether Landry will do that. Even if he does switch from SB to OB, that doesn't mean the team will get what it wants. Carlos Rogers did the OB thing and still cost the team 1.8M per year through the first five years of his contract in bonuses alone -- his salary bumped him over 2M. If you think we're going to pay Landry (6th pick in 2007) less than we paid Carlos Rogers (9th pick in 2005) then we should simply agree to disagree.

[Peregrine]

How about, with all the extra cap space, we stop signing big names at positions that wont help us, and instead just stand pat. No need to go spend an extra couple million on a WR. No need to reach for a player just because we have money. How about we keep it(maybe a couple key extensions), and then next year, with the extra space, if some important player ends up on the market, we sign him.

Save it for a rainy day with a playmaker, not a desperate attempt to find someone.

[D-Day]

How about, with all the extra cap space, we stop signing big names at positions that wont help us, and instead just stand pat. No need to go spend an extra couple million on a WR. No need to reach for a player just because we have money. How about we keep it(maybe a couple key extensions), and then next year, with the extra space, if some important player ends up on the market, we sign him.

Save it for a rainy day with a playmaker, not a desperate attempt to find someone.

Question though, what is the problem with signing a big name vet to a one year deal if he might be able to help us win and they improve the team? That is the point, no one is saying you have to sign a june 1st cut to a 4 yr deal. One year deals are a option and are quite common.

D-Day...

Now we have a new problema/question...

How will this Sean Taylor no showing for OTA's (per the Post he is unhappy with his contract) play out.

Personally I think he will suck it up and this offseason we will take care of him because he will be entering the last year of his deal.

Who knows, I think he will play, most players I think can see that he has not lived up to expectations and they will hopefully show him the error of his ways. I would wait a year at least before redoing his deal, heck he signed it. If he got screwed that is his problem. He has 4 years of very cap friendly deals so we are not forced by his cap number to play him. He will realize his best option is to go out and earn his new contract extension.

:2cents:

Per the new CBA, all signing bonuses are prorated over 5 years no matter what. Even if they sign a 7 year deal (Taylor signed a 7-year deal, but the last year voids anyways, it is prorated over 6) it won't be prorated over that length.

You're right that they can funny-money the deal so that it pays out more in year 2 and year 3, the question is whether Landry will do that. Even if he does switch from SB to OB, that doesn't mean the team will get what it wants. Carlos Rogers did the OB thing and still cost the team 1.8M per year through the first five years of his contract in bonuses alone -- his salary bumped him over 2M. If you think we're going to pay Landry (6th pick in 2007) less than we paid Carlos Rogers (9th pick in 2005) then we should simply agree to disagree.

I know about the proration. It remains to be seen what kind of contract he will sign, but since the skins don't give 100% of the guaranteed money up front as the the SB to established vets, I highly doubt they will give it to a rookie.

[Skin Patrol]

I know about the proration. It remains to be seen what kind of contract he will sign, but since the skins don't give 100% of the guaranteed money up front as the the SB to established vets, I highly doubt they will give it to a rookie.

That's what they did for London Fletcher and Fred Smoot this year (10.5M and 7M signing bonuses respectively). It's what they did for McIntosh as well. In instances where they paid their 1st round rookies OB bonuses, they didn't do it in small first year payments either, they simply prorated it as normal, which is what they did with both Jason Campbell and Carlos Rogers. Sean Taylor got the hybrid deal, where they split up SB and OB bonuses but still prorated them normally. 1.2M in SB and 800K in OB bonuses, which paid out to over 2M per year anyways, although his contract is littered with incentives that I don't understand.

I think what you're focused on is the kind of contract that Archuleta/Carter/Lloyd, etc. signed, althoug I would argue those are the exception to the rule. The kind of bonus that gets paid out in strange amounts on different years is "Other Bonuses" and there's only a handful of players on the team with those anyways -- Andre Carter being the most prominent. Randle-El and Lloyd being the other two. Veterans that signed with the team with the majority of their bonuses in SBs include Griffin, Wade, Washington, Portis, Springs, Brunell, etc. This trend of playing funny money is really a recent phenomenon and hasn't been used at all this offseason as far as I can tell.

[D-Day]

That's what they did for London Fletcher and Fred Smoot this year (10.5M and 7M signing bonuses respectively). It's what they did for McIntosh as well. In instances where they paid their 1st round rookies OB bonuses, they didn't do it in small first year payments either, they simply prorated it as normal, which is what they did with both Jason Campbell and Carlos Rogers. Sean Taylor got the hybrid deal, where they split up SB and OB bonuses but still prorated them normally. 1.2M in SB and 800K in OB bonuses, which paid out to over 2M per year anyways, although his contract is littered with incentives that I don't understand.

I think what you're focused on is the kind of contract that Archuleta/Carter/Lloyd, etc. signed, althoug I would argue those are the exception to the rule. The kind of bonus that gets paid out in strange amounts on different years is "Other Bonuses" and there's only a handful of players on the team with those anyways -- Andre Carter being the most prominent. Randle-El and Lloyd being the other two. Veterans that signed with the team with the majority of their bonuses in SBs include Griffin, Wade, Washington, Portis, Springs, Brunell, etc. This trend of playing funny money is really a recent phenomenon and hasn't been used at all this offseason as far as I can tell.

Ok more knowledge in the safe, thanks. It just seems that way then since we always have like 10 mil in bonus money that is automatically converted every year. For instance next year we have like 14 mil I think in option / roster bonuses.

[Skin Patrol]

Ok more knowledge in the safe, thanks. It just seems that way then since we always have like 10 mil in bonus money that is automatically converted every year. For instance next year we have like 14 mil I think in option / roster bonuses.

I've got us paying 44M in Cap Bonuses (which includes SB and "OB" which I'm not really sure what that is).

In "other bonuses" (not to be confused with OB) which I think includes incentives, the Redskins owe just 43K in 2007. In 2008 we have nearly 10M, though. The biggest non-Cap Bonus we pay out is just 600K to Phillip Daniels, which is about what we're paying him in SBs next year.

[D-Day]

I've got us paying 44M in Cap Bonuses (which includes SB and "OB" which I'm not really sure what that is).

In "other bonuses" (not to be confused with OB) which I think includes incentives, the Redskins owe just 43K in 2007. In 2008 we have nearly 10M, though. The biggest non-Cap Bonus we pay out is just 600K to Phillip Daniels, which is about what we're paying him in SBs next year.

The option bonuses are usually called "roster bonuses" in the media. EX the 5 mil bonuses that where paid to BL and that AA "gave Back" are examples of these. They can be guaranteed into the contract at the time of the signing ala those two mentioned.

Other Bonus money can be anything from workout bonuses, to being on the roster at any particular day of the year they choose, to driving a pink car down SE DC while wearing a pink dress signing Kelly Clarkson songs. Whatever little pirks the players get written into the contract for doing what they are suppose to be doing anyways.

Those bonuses are still cap counts but only if the player receives them. For instance MB's is due to him if he is on the Roster on July 1 I believe, so if he is cut before that bonus disappears as it is not guaranteed. I don't think PD's has been paid yet and I don't know when it is due. The LTE incentive for PD is a easily reachable Incentive that he is likely to get, who knows what that is, but it has to be accounted for incase it is paid. If it isn't then you get a cap credit next year.

If you look at the spreadsheet you will see most of that OB money left on the cap this year are roster bonuses to the guys that were just signed and most are for 7K. So if they probably make the Camp or Opening Day roster then those will probably we paid, if they don't make the team then they won't count against the cap.

[Skin Patrol]

The option bonuses are usually called "roster bonuses" in the media. EX the 5 mil bonuses that where paid to BL and that AA "gave Back" are examples of these. They can be guaranteed into the contract at the time of the signing ala those two mentioned.

Other Bonus money can be anything from workout bonuses, to being on the roster at any particular day of the year they choose, to driving a pink car down SE DC while wearing a pink dress signing Kelly Clarkson songs. Whatever little pirks the players get written into the contract for doing what they are suppose to be doing anyways.

Those bonuses are still cap counts but only if the player receives them. For instance MB's is due to him if he is on the Roster on July 1 I believe, so if he is cut before that bonus disappears as it is not guaranteed. I don't think PD's has been paid yet and I don't know when it is due. The LTE incentive for PD is a easily reachable Incentive that he is likely to get, who knows what that is, but it has to be accounted for incase it is paid. If it isn't then you get a cap credit next year.

If you look at the spreadsheet you will see most of that OB money left on the cap this year are roster bonuses to the guys that were just signed and most are for 7K. So if they probably make the Camp or Opening Day roster then those will probably we paid, if they don't make the team then they won't count against the cap.

Gracias for the clarification.

As it all relates to Landry, I doubt we're going to cut him prior to receiving his first year "OB"s whatever they may be, and in the majority of cases with both rookies and veterans (with a few players signed last year being the exception) he will receive them prorated over the course of 5 someodd years. I predict 16-18M in guaranteed money, meaning he'll get over 3M in year one.

Just my 2 cents, though.

[wyominghansen]

Crazy as it may sound, what about Trent Green? Could possibly cut MB and TC. Green is better than both and knows Saunders system.

I know.....pipe dreams!:cloud9:

Bramlet isn't bad at #3. Palmer is no more than a practice squader!

Daniels would probably be the odd man out!

Yeah, but I think Green want's a starting job. And how many KC people do you think we need just to fill a knowledge gap to fit the Saunders system? Maybe, if we drop all ties to KC, we might get better (including the Saunders system). I agree with Bramlet staying on the roster.

[Skin Patrol]

I saw today that the prorated SBs goes from over 5 years max to 6 years max, so that could save us some money on Landry in year 1 (if he signs a 6 year deal, which is by no means certain).

Still 15-18M over 6 years is more than 2M a year.

[D-Day]

I saw today that the prorated SBs goes from over 5 years max to 6 years max, so that could save us some money on Landry in year 1 (if he signs a 6 year deal, which is by no means certain).

Still 15-18M over 6 years is more than 2M a year.

Assuming he gets the whole thing as a signing bonus.

[Skin Patrol]

Assuming he gets the whole thing as a signing bonus.

Understood.

[D-Day]

Not directed at anyone in particular, just the overall explanation of how I do these threads..........Again

Ok, when I said it would cost "around" 2 mil dollars I would hope people would realize it is a guesstimation, I see that most people just don't and take it as that I am saying he "will" cost this amount. Do you honestly think we would pay 2 mil for a June 1st cut as at the WR position. I highly doubt it. The purpose is too show what we can do.

For instance we could give LL a contract like this.

BTW the signing bonus proration this year is 6 yrs like you said I just get tired of posting the same crap over and over again so I didn't want to get into it earlier in the thread.

7 years 16 mil guaranteed + whatever you want to add for the salaries as it won't matter the first couple of years. I assuming you can sign a round 1 pick for 7 years because heck they did for Taylor.

You can give him a 10 mil Signing Bonus and then guarantee some more money later.

His SB portion of the cap will be 1.67 mil + the salary of say .595 K, would make him at 2.25 mil. That is a good deal that would probably get it done.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=NFL&id=3638

Last years #6

Contract Information for Vernon Davis

7/28/2006: Signed a five-year, $23 million contract. The deal includes $15.2 million in guarantees. 2007: $360,000, 2008: $900,000, 2009: $1.44 million, 2010: $1.98 million, 2011: Free Agent

[Sawyer5500]

-Definitely keep Brunell, hes a very valuable backup to Campbell.

-Keep both Daniels and Wynn

-Extend Cooley

-Extend Taylor

-DO NOT make Cooley/Taylor another Champ Bailey situation.

[Hail26]

i would like to see KJ come to washington for a season as that big possession receiver.

No thanks. Hate that guy

[Failing2BOptimistic]

I did a long thread before FA on the cap and possible moves (most of which came to pass). So I thought I would throw out what I think could happen this summer with the cap and possible moves.

Needs = Vet off Guard (maybe), DE, and now a WR.

Cap = currently 5.1 mil under and we will get a 2.2 mil cap credit on June 1st from David Pattens release for a total of 7.3 mil under the cap.

Moves that probably will happen.

-Cut/Retire Collins. - Saves 1.250 mil off the cap

-Replace him with Bramlet/Palmer/ or the UDFA, whoever is the best or shows the most promise. Time for the 3rd QB to be a development slot again.

-If we find a new DE, I can see Daniels or wynn going. More likely Daniels as wynn is more versatile and he did just redo his contract and he is in his last year. Saves 1.9 mil if Daniels goes

So we could be 10.4 mil under the cap if those two moves are made.

Now we need to

-sign Landry. Expect around a 2 mil cap hit for that.

-Resign/ extend Cooley, expect no more then 2 mil for him this year.

-Sign a DE, expect no more then 3 mil for that this year.

-Find another WR, expect no more then 2 mil for that. KJ come on down. Coach Joe he is exactly what this offense needs.

-Bramlet as my favorite to replace collins. Not sure of his cap number.

So on the high side we could resonably expect to spend 9 mil and still have a injury pool of 1.4 mil.

We could do this move also (would be a fan favorite). Thanks for the info PCinOZ.

If we make Brunell a post June 1 cut, we save just over $2.0m in 2007. He will count $3.113m in dead cap next year but considering his cap hit next year is in excess of $6.5m we would save around $3.4m in 2008.

So cutting MB would save us another 2 mil and we could sign Tim Rattay as our vet backup (hey he can still throw the ball) for about a mil. Saving another mil on the cap to give us

a injury pool of around 2 mil.

Summer is done and lets play some football.

Nice job man. Thanks for that.

Some things though.

I don't see us cutting Brunell- didnt he already re-structure to take 1-2mill less??? Avoid any penalties keep him 1 more year. . Cutting MB would not be wise (there I said it, but it would be another forfeited season if he started W1-W17)

I doubt Palmer/Bramlet each will display such strong ability. I've seen Bramlet last season at the Camp and I tell ya I waas not impressed and I am suprised his info says he is taller than 6'0", he looked like a shrimp throwing ducks.

For Collins to be cut I think it should be done. He has made a substantial living and hasn't broken a sweat (LOL) in what 8 years or so...? Thanks for any tutoring but I don't think he equates to our demanding level of talent.Lets not lead him along- what is his purpose?? The team can pay me 1/2 and I can tell jokes, bring h20, and make beer runs, or late night hookers/ice cream.

Sign Landry, Resign Cooley awesome, Resign Taylor slightly higher than Cooley,

I will be doing what I do every year in Madden and that is release MB and build my awesome team for the future can't wait.

Dag I forgot--

I think we should def. keep Daniels over Wynn. I have not seen any production from Wynn in years. I don't even think they gave him a jersey last year. Both guys seem like they will retire after the season but Wynn just will not go away. They say he is Defensive Captain??? I think we found the problem, he is braiding Collins' hair on the sideline.

I read an article 4 months ago and they proposed Gaines Adams at DE and move Daniels to DT. I thought that was brilliant, thats what I did in Madden and it cured all depth at DT cuz I had a young DE stud but where do we find one now?? He may be spent on Taylor's ego/ghetto ass on his new contract.