Better O equals better D

[JaimeDeCurry]

LOL.....yeah there is definitely some bias in here. (I have played WR all my life)

:laugh: Looks like we're going to have to agree to disagree then. WRs are all a bunch of ****y punks anyway.

[onnie007]

:laugh: Looks like we're going to have to agree to disagree then. WRs are all a bunch of ****y punks anyway.

Agreed. LOL. Don't forget that we typically get the girls too! :pimp:

[JaimeDeCurry]

Agreed. LOL. Don't forget that we typically get the girls too! :pimp:

Yeah, it's a lot easier when you walk off the field in your pretty, clean, white uniform instead of us linemen who come off covered in mud and dirt and trying not to move our broken fingers too much.

It was all worth it, though, when a team decided they were gonna be fancy and run an end-around to my side.

[Chanhillbilly]

CJ may be a guy who can take over games on offense. The problem is, we already have those guys in Cooley, Portis, Betts, and Moss. What the skinnies don't have is the guy who can do it on defense. Arch and Carter were supposed to be those guys and, well we know how that turned out...

They need defenseive help. The skinnies seldom if ever got good constant pressure on a QB last year, and a lot of games were lost on defense, not by the offense. The ones that come to mind off the top of my head are: Minnesota, Atlanta, Tennesse, and St. Louis. If they could have stopped ANYONE, those games would have been in the bag and we wouldn't be talking about CJ at number six, we would be talking about what to do with number 18.

The other thing that is slightly off topic, draft wise, we should have Samules and Jansens replacements already on the team somewhere. No depth. How do you build depth, via the draft....

[Gusthecat]

If we draft CJ and he is wildly successful, he will touch the ball FIVE times per game. Five. You're vastly overstating his impact. Yes, it is generally true that a better offense helps your defense -- field position, time of possession, etc. -- but it is not specifically true that the addition of one receiver, no matter how good, improves your defense.

You're really stretching to make a case for CJ.

He will touch the ball 5 times, right, but Moss will touch it a few more too. And we know what happens when Moss touches the ball. And, as the original post says, it opens up our running game.

[GIBBS LIVES]

I played D-IA ball, thanks pops.

And I've watched plenty football. I saw the Giants game. Did you see Plaxico Burress? Did you see what he did for their offense?

And have YOU been following the Skins? We now have a tackling machine by the name of London Fletcher-Baker. And added a third cover corner, you might have heard of him. He used to play here.

Just goes to prove that just because you played the game, doesn't mean you know how to construct a team sonny.

Trying to compare the redskins defense to the Giants is an absolute joke. The Giants have a D-line. And have had one for awhile. It was that D-line that got them to the SB in 2000. London Fletcher is little and needs good DT's in front to keep those 300 pound O-linemen from running him over. And considering that Fletcher isn't a spring chicken any more, he needs good DT's in front of him more then ever.

[26fan4life]

As i think one could point out to you that you are drastically underestimating the value a 4.34 6-5 240lb WR can improve your ability to open up the field causing more carries for Portis through bigger holes, and more lanes for the other WR's. Even if he isnt touching the ball he is affecting every play.

wow you really seem to love measurables.

[CrypticVillain]

Yeah, it's a lot easier when you walk off the field in your pretty, clean, white uniform instead of us linemen who come off covered in mud and dirt and trying not to move our broken fingers too much.

It was all worth it, though, when a team decided they were gonna be fancy and run an end-around to my side.

I was a TE. I had my good catches here and there and I laid some mean pancakes.

I won't be mad if we get Johson, but I agree with skinnyfan57, 150 Mil in WR is crazy.

[GIBBS LIVES]

If you have no D-line, then the remaining defense is like wet toilet paper. No matter how talented they are.

London Fletcher is little and not very young. He needs comptent DT play in front of him to keep him freed up to make the tackles he suppose to make. So if the Skins don't give Griffin some help, the Fletcher signing will mean absolutely nothing.

Next, if we got Calvin Johnson, sure we may have a great offense, but no defense. The San Deigo Charges of the Air Coreyell days, The Kansas City Chiefs of the previous five years all had great offenses and no defense and how far did it get them????

We have a hole at the OG position. But other then that, there is no glaring need on offense right now.

[Veretax]

While you statements are true regarding FIVE times per game, if THREE of those keep a drive going or mean a score, that can easily result in a 7 point difference or even more. Check and see how many games were within 7 points for the Redskins last season and add in continued improvement for Campbell and suddenly you could end up with about 4 or 5 more victories.

Exactly, how many times in the mid third to late fourth quarters did our defense come up big to hold a team only for us to go 3 and out. Now our O is improved with Campbell in there, but is it good enough I don't think so.

Our offense is not the problem, nor does it have any glaring holes except for some questions on the Line. We actually have a solid team. Think about it, how much would a tall receiver have actually helped us last year? Would it have put us in the playoffs???

right so you like the idea of a #2 wideout that averages 23 catches in 16 games? I guess if noone can stop our run attack then I'd be fine with that, but if they scheme out the run and moss we are out of luck.

Umm, it would have helped immensely in the redzone actually? Just look at what opportunities Plaxico offers the Giants in the redzone. We don't have that kind of guy on this roster. I'm not saying CJ will win us Super Bowls, I'm just saying his presence will greatly improve this team scoring potential. Just look at how many games were decided by 7 points or less in the last two years. We score ONE more TD and we're in the playoffs the last two years in lots of those games. I'm sorry I just don't subscribe to the whole get a slim lead and try to hold it for two quarters and pray the opposing team doesn't score.

exactly, when it became win or bust how many times EARLY in games did we go for it on 4th and goal and turn the ball over? CJ could have turned those into Touchdowns.

But we already have a pretty good offense that will only get better. We have THREE probowl caliber skill position players (Moss, Portis, Cooley) and a lot of solid role players on the offense. That doesn't even take into account JC, who could also develop into a probowl caliber quarterback. What we need is improved performance from Lloyd and Randel El and we'll be fine. If we just get Lloyd to do what he did with the 49ers in addition to continued improvement from JC then we will have a VASTLY improved offense in the 2nd year under AL.....

Moss is starting to get Old, as is ARE, Lloyd is still young so i have hopes he could improve, but he won't unless he's got someone behind him pressuring him.

That's the point many of us are making. Nobody knows how CJ would have helped us last year. You said earlier its "unquestionable" that CJ helps our defense, but that's just simply not true. There is no way to prove that drafting Johnson will improve our defense. Our defense averaged in the top 5 in starting field position last year. They simply couldn't stop anyone. At all. Our free safety - the guy who's supposed to be the last line of defense - lead our team in tackles. I will agree 100% that offense and defense help eachother out. It's one of the fundamentals of football, just like a good running game compliments the passing game and vice versa. But your point about losing games by a small margin (7 points or less)? What if our defense had even been just mediocre? Say, 16th? Or even better, top 10 like it was the two years before?

Which do you think would have helped our season more overall, all the way down the stretch? Adding a wide receiver, or adding a competent defense?

If we had not lost PP in the first snap of the season I think we do a lot better maybe even make a run at the playoffs. You can't tell how injuries will effect your season. But when brunnel was in there how badly did our passing game look (except for that engima of a Texans game).

Have we all written Lloyd off? Do we not remember trading away picks for this guy and giving a new 30 mil contract? Oh, we also have Randle El.......another 30 mil. And a guy by the name of Moss 25 mil. So we need to trade up and sign Johnson for 30 mil........make that close to 115 mil in our receiving core........when we are a running football team. What in the hell is going on. How can we forget so quickly about our D line? Injuries or not. I don't want to hear Griffin and Salavea were hurt etc....that is part of football. We need depth along the line, especially at Tackle. Going off and paying Briggs or Johnson 20 plus in guaranteed $ is a bad managerial move because we can't then afford to pay for depth. We need to trade out of the 6th pick and look at defense.....the offense will be adequate if Campbell can take the training wheels off and Portis can show for most of the season.

CJ may be a guy who can take over games on offense. The problem is, we already have those guys in Cooley, Portis, Betts, and Moss. What the skinnies don't have is the guy who can do it on defense. Arch and Carter were supposed to be those guys and, well we know how that turned out...

They need defenseive help. The skinnies seldom if ever got good constant pressure on a QB last year, and a lot of games were lost on defense, not by the offense. The ones that come to mind off the top of my head are: Minnesota, Atlanta, Tennesse, and St. Louis. If they could have stopped ANYONE, those games would have been in the bag and we wouldn't be talking about CJ at number six, we would be talking about what to do with number 18.

The other thing that is slightly off topic, draft wise, we should have Samules and Jansens replacements already on the team somewhere. No depth. How do you build depth, via the draft....

Even if CJ isn't ready to start till game 5. Having him on the sideline would force Lloyd to produce. It just might light a fire under his behind that makes him produce at a level that we are paying him at. Then imagine Lloyd Moss and CJ three lights out receivers and ARE now and then to throw teams off, man I'd pay to see that.

[onnie007]

Just goes to prove that just because you played the game, doesn't mean you know how to construct a team sonny.

Trying to compare the redskins defense to the Giants is an absolute joke. The Giants have a D-line. And have had one for awhile. It was that D-line that got them to the SB in 2000. London Fletcher is little and needs good DT's in front to keep those 300 pound O-linemen from running him over. And considering that Fletcher isn't a spring chicken any more, he needs good DT's in front of him more then ever.

Good for the Giants. I'm a SKINS fan and whatever the FO decides to do, I will support. Fletcher is a SKIN now and thus one of my boys. I have faith in Griffin and Golston. This train is leaving with or without you! HTTR

[onnie007]

I was a TE. I had my good catches here and there and I laid some mean pancakes.

I won't be mad if we get Johson, but I agree with skinnyfan57, 150 Mil in WR is crazy.

Its not my money...and about 20% of that 150 is guaranteed so I wouldn't worry.

[Diesel70ChipOnWhite]

wow you really seem to love measurables.

Yes Captain Smart Ass i do, and so does the rest of the f*** universe that has seen this guy play football.

if you would please remove your head from Alan Branch's rear end you might be able to see that their are other options to improving the football team.

All hail 26fan4life King of Facts :notworthy

[Justsomeguy]

If the D does give us good field position then the one thing nobody has illustrated is that a 3 and out is a 3 and out regardless of position. I don't have full confidence in suisham and moss will still be double teamed. I say bring on CJ. He is tall and can be very effective for that reason alone let alone all of his athleticism. CJ would make our receiving core more diverse, and diversity is the mother of all creation. Hail to the greatest team period.

[Justsomeguy]

Keep in mind people we can still get D-line and CJ as well. Have faith in your team.

[GIBBS LIVES]

Good for the Giants. I'm a SKINS fan and whatever the FO decides to do, I will support. Fletcher is a SKIN now and thus one of my boys. I have faith in Griffin and Golston. This train is leaving with or without you! HTTR

Please. I was the one who made this freakin train that your sitting on son. I'm the damn driver!!!!!!

Golston is a nice guy but he can't get the job done. And you saw Griffin get worn down last year. He needs help. Real, talented help. I will be a skins fan after those guys in the FO are long gone! And just because their the FO of my team, doesn't make them right in everything they do. HTTR!!!!!!!

[ImmortalDragon]

The Raiders had the worst offense in the league and a top 5 defense (with arguably less talent than our defense), explain that.

[Peregrine]

I would submit you are completely wrong based on three points.

1. Better D equals better O. Your very claim goes both ways. Being better on one side of the ball will make the other side of the ball better, thus if we draft a DLinemen who helps us on one side(AKA create turnovers, better field position) we make the offense as good as if we had drafted CJ.

2. He doesnt fit our offense. Our offense is a very run first offense. There are very few teams in the NFL that can run this type of offense succesfuly and win games. Why? Because running controls the game, but doesnt put as many points on the board. Thus the defense has to be a strong defense(which is why the only teams without a succesful passing game to make the playoffs last season were the Ravens and the Bears). Our gameplan has been for several years, and will continue to be, running the ball to control the game, and as such, we need a dominant offense to do it. Drafting an offensive player especially at the WR position wont help us at all in that gameplan. So unless the coaches decide to throw out the plan for the past several years, it just wont work.

3. Our defense was one of the worst in NFL history last season. We made the colts look good. No team has produced as few turnovers as we did last year. Improving our defense a little bit just wont cut it, because our offense isnt top 5. I think you would be hard pressed to maintain ANY rookie will turn an offense like ours into a top 5 offense in his first season. Plus, that would still leave our defense at the bottom of the league, and even with an offense as good as ours would have to be, even the Colts wouldnt make the playoffs if it was as bad as ours was last season. We dont, and wont, have the Colts offense, so we cant afford to have their defense.

We werent unsuccesful passing the ball last season because we failed when we tried, we were unsuccesful at it because we didnt even try. Just look at the amount of times we went to throw deep(before we were losing by a ton of points). Our passing game wont get any better no matter what poor individual we throw into the WR position, it will only get better once the coaches decide they need to throw the ball downfield(and turn the offense over to Saunders finally). Good talent cant overcome bad coaching. Good coaching can overcome bad talent.

[skinnyfan57]

Even if CJ isn't ready to start till game 5. Having him on the sideline would force Lloyd to produce. It just might light a fire under his behind that makes him produce at a level that we are paying him at. Then imagine Lloyd Moss and CJ three lights out receivers and ARE now and then to throw teams off, man I'd pay to see that.

You want a fire under Lloyds ass......how bout not signing him to a new deal when we traded for him. He had a year left on his original contract. But no, we have to give him 30 mil because of all he did in his career. He deserved that money right? And no getting Johnson is not going to light a fire under Lloyd...catches will. Lloyd is a talented reciever but a head case like most. And you don't think ARE came here to be a punt returner and run a reverse every once in awhile do you? Moss, Lloyd, ARE are all under 27 years old if I'm not mistaken. That makes them here for a long time. Having Johnson in here is going to create even more headaches for us. You know that, don't you? I mean really. 3's a crowd and 4 is a cluster****.

I will agree with you on one condition..........we trade Lloyd, but who in their right mind is going to pick up his contract?

[Phixius]

Explain the Ravens better O equals better D.

[sknsrbck26]

it's both

better D= Better O

better O= better D

[JohnnyUtah]

Please. I was the one who made this freakin train that your sitting on son. I'm the damn driver!!!!!!

Golston is a nice guy but he can't get the job done. And you saw Griffin get worn down last year. He needs help. Real, talented help. I will be a skins fan after those guys in the FO are long gone! And just because their the FO of my team, doesn't make them right in everything they do. HTTR!!!!!!!

Hey...FYI, Trains don't have drivers; they have conductors. Nice try. :laugh:

[Seabee1973]

it's both

better D= Better O

better O= better D

not always the case Raiders this year

Redskins had one of teh worst offensive teams in football in 2004 and had the number 4 defense we improved on offense in 2005 and the defense fell so where is the logic in that?

[Hauss]

Better O didn't equal better D when Jurgy put up big numbers. We started winning when we could run the ball and play defense.

[SkinsFanAnt]

"Better O equals better D"

:doh:

And last year our O improved significantly while we gave up hundreds of yards to Tiki Barber and Steven Jackson....and lost even though our O was better.

NO...better O only equals better D when you can possess the ball for so long like the Colts do. Either way...you STILL have to have a better D then we did last year. This horrible excuse of a post to trade up for CJ deserves a big fat :doh: